6 comments

  • seizethecheese0 minutes ago
    [delayed]
  • bearjaws42 minutes ago
    Cloudflare is a steal at $240 IMO.<p>Regardless of what happens to the AI models, you will still need protection a decade from now.<p>Not to mention the most comprehensive platform to use with AI, they will inevitably eat Lovable &#x2F; Repl&#x27;s lunch.
    • JumpCrisscross16 minutes ago
      It looks like Cloudflare generates $633mm operating cash flow a year, up 5% for TTM from 2025 [1]. I’m surprised that’s supporting a $95bn market cap.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;finance.yahoo.com&#x2F;quote&#x2F;NET&#x2F;cash-flow&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;finance.yahoo.com&#x2F;quote&#x2F;NET&#x2F;cash-flow&#x2F;</a>
      • hnav1 minute ago
        now that they have most of the internet corralled I don&#x27;t see why they won&#x27;t start charging for bandwidth
      • cj3 minutes ago
        How does that compare to other tech companies?<p>As an example, Palantir has a similar cash flow &#x2F; market cap ratio. I didn&#x27;t check many others.
    • vlucas25 minutes ago
      Cloudflare is not competing with app builders like Lovable or Repl though. They are the <i>underlying infrastructure</i> for companies like that. This is why they will win in the AI era.<p>Lovable is hosted on Cloudflare: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;CloudflareDev&#x2F;status&#x2F;2113651157721600492" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;CloudflareDev&#x2F;status&#x2F;2113651157721600492</a>
      • estearum21 minutes ago
        They&#x27;re saying that it&#x27;s trivial for Cloudflare to go up the stack (build Replit) while it&#x27;s non-trivial for Replit to go down the stack (build Cloudflare).
        • dingaling91116 minutes ago
          It&#x27;s trivial for those providing internet links to go up the stack and cloud data centers but they typically don&#x27;t.<p>Staying in your lane is often a better choice.<p>Maybe expanding through acquisition is the best of both worlds. So replit might be bought.
          • estearum7 minutes ago
            I&#x27;m not expressing an opinion on whether they should or shouldn&#x27;t.
        • sillysaurusx16 minutes ago
          Why would either of them do either of those? They seem to be different businesses.<p>Network effects make it harder for Cloudflare to build Replit than it might seem, too.
          • estearum6 minutes ago
            What network effects?<p>And the reason for Cloudflare to do it is because there are several (apparently) very juicy businesses to be built by slapping a chat UI and off the shelf coding agent on top of Cloudflare infra... Not saying they <i>should</i> do this, but the rationale is pretty self-evident.<p>The reason for Replit to try going down the stack is platform risk and compressing margins from competitors who also have the brilliant idea of slapping a text box and off the shelf coding agents onto Cloudflare.
    • elAhmo15 minutes ago
      Given how much people have started actively looking for alternatives, and how much spray-and-pray Cloudflare&#x27;s offerings now seem with so many launches every few weeks, steal is a bit too optimistic.
    • s-kymon23 minutes ago
      In an April 2002 interview with Bloomberg Businessweek, Scott McNealy, then CEO of Sun Microsystems, reflected on investors paying 10x revenue for Sun stock at its dot-com peak ($64&#x2F;share in 2000):<p>At 10 times revenues, to give you a 10-year payback, I have to pay you 100% of revenues for 10 straight years in dividends. That assumes I can get that by my shareholders. That assumes I have zero cost of goods sold, which is very hard for a computer company. That assumes zero expenses, which is really hard with 39,000 employees. That assumes I pay no taxes, which is very hard. And that assumes you pay no taxes on your dividends, which is kind of illegal. And that assumes with zero R&amp;D for the next 10 years, I can maintain the current revenue run rate. Now, having done that, would any of you like to buy my stock at $64? Do you realize how ridiculous those basic assumptions are? You don&#x27;t need any transparency. You don&#x27;t need any footnotes. What were you thinking?<p>Now this analysis is imperfect... but it&#x27;s good enough.<p>For reference Cloudflare trades at 39x revenue
      • brightball8 minutes ago
        &quot;In the short term the market is a popularity contest; in the long term it is a weighing machine.&quot; - Warren Buffett<p>Here&#x27;s the valuation though. Percentage of total web traffic going through Cloudflare.<p>- 2016 ~3.9%<p>- 2017 ~5.3%<p>- 2018 ~6.6%<p>- 2019 ~7.6%<p>- 2020 ~11.2%<p>- 2021 ~15.4%<p>- 2022 ~19.4%<p>- 2023 ~18.0%<p>- 2024 ~18.9%<p>- 2025 ~19.2%<p>- 2026 (early) ~20.9% (with later snapshots higher, up to the mid-to-high 20s)<p>Combine that with consistently excellent execution and popularity, you get the valuation.
        • s-kymon4 minutes ago
          The quote comes from Ben Graham and it goes &quot;In the short run, the market is a voting machine, but in the long run, it is a weighing machine&quot;<p>You&#x27;re confusing market share with valuation. Also, look into business cycle theory from marathon asset management.<p>The four most dangerous words in finance &quot;this time is different&quot;
      • ahtihn8 minutes ago
        That analysis completely neglects growth.<p>Obviously you wouldn&#x27;t pay 10x revenue if you expect revenue to be flat for the next 10 years.<p>No wonder that company no longer exists with a CEO that doesn&#x27;t get that.
        • bryanlarsen6 minutes ago
          Cloudflare&#x27;s growth is capped to 100% of internet traffic. it&#x27;s already at 20%.
        • s-kymon3 minutes ago
          you&#x27;re right on growth being excluded, which is why I said the analysis is imperfect.
      • ink_1317 minutes ago
        A tech stock paying dividends? It&#x27;ll never happen.
        • s-kymon15 minutes ago
          hehe<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;giftarticle.ft.com&#x2F;giftarticle&#x2F;actions&#x2F;redeem&#x2F;8605e663-cba2-4af2-887d-f5fe7805405f" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;giftarticle.ft.com&#x2F;giftarticle&#x2F;actions&#x2F;redeem&#x2F;8605e6...</a>
        • dingaling91116 minutes ago
          Uh.. The big guys do.
          • mikestew6 minutes ago
            Ever looked at MSFT or AAPL’s dividends? It’s a token “here’s your fucking dividend, now go away” percentage. (I’m sure it’s actually to placate funds that require a dividend, but I repeat myself.)<p>As a retired ‘softie, my spouse still holds a fair bit of MSFT, so I just looked: $0.98…on a $540.00 stock. Yeah, we won’t be living off that in our old age.
          • impulser_12 minutes ago
            Yeah, but they just do that for inclusion into some investment products that require a dividend.<p>Share buybacks are always better for the company and investors.
    • postepowanieadm14 minutes ago
      You selling?
  • asdev3 minutes ago
    Are we finally realizing &quot;agents&quot; are overrated and jagged in performance?
  • Kevin_Flynn45 minutes ago
    Election euphoria and hangovers,<p>Sobriety the following day,<p>$8,000 for a video card,<p>Empty boxes on Christmas day.<p>Can&#x27;t even rhyme without AI anymore.
    • ddellacosta27 minutes ago
      Texas: so much spent<p>Wind blows over clear acres<p>Buildouts are now dead?
      • Kevin_Flynn24 minutes ago
        Nvidia got my money,<p>Micron a little as well,<p>AI corps with their hands out ?<p>they can go to hell. :}
        • karim7918 minutes ago
          Got me a 3090<p>Cost me 3090<p>Dunno why I did dis<p>Guess let&#x27;s try and see
  • empath7528 minutes ago
    Democrats are not going to try and stop AI or rein in AI. There is too much money at stake. They&#x27;ll pass some regulations, sure, some data center rollouts might be blocked or modified, but they aren&#x27;t going to stop the train.
    • scottLobster13 minutes ago
      They don&#x27;t have to. This particular train explodes on its own if it drop below 100 mph.<p>Even tepid regulation will destroy the &quot;our TIA is the entire observable universe due to the potential of self replicating AI probes so we totally deserve 10 trillion dollars in investor capital&quot; trade
    • tehjoker22 minutes ago
      They&#x27;re not even going to do that. Trump isn&#x27;t going to sign that. When was the last time Congress overrode a veto or played hardball (well the Democratic side anyway)? They have no fight in them.
      • phainopepla21 minute ago
        I expect more action on the state &amp; local front than federally
  • rvz40 minutes ago
    The beginning of the AI bubble&#x27;s dotcom-style crash.<p>Accurate. [0]<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=45960032">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=45960032</a>
    • torlok10 minutes ago
      Keep calling it. You&#x27;ll get it right one day.<p>Personally, I think that the idea that market always recovers is so widespread right now that it&#x27;ll take some serious financial hardships for people to start selling instead of buying the dip.
      • k__0 minutes ago
        Bought a bunch of dips in the last 5 years until I had to sell all of them at one point, because they kept dipping.