Never mind the policy, why do tech CEOs have to sound like frat boys?
Because they’re all fraternity rejects who still want college boys to think they’re cool
> “That’s bullshit and loser thinking. Of course it’s possible to be fast and secure,” Yen wrote in the channel at the end of August.<p>What a jerk. I agree that security doesn't have to be given time—like all software, implementation takes the time it takes.<p>But he doesn't have to be such an asshole about it. In my book, there's nothing more representative of "loser thinking" than casting petulant aspersions like "loser thinking."
Dunno, but it's a big reason why I hated living in SF, hate being lumped in with "tech bros", and absolutely cannot stand people who turn their entire personality into being "all in on AI".
Damn I thought these were the good guys.
There have been a <i>number</i> of signs over the past few years that they are very much not the good guys.
Can you reference some? I recall never trusting Proton, but I never had a reason why, just gut feeling. This stuff is vindicating, but I'm curious if I actually had a reason to feel the way I did or was right by accident. I don't have a great track record; I trusted Bitwarden and regret it, and the Mullvad situation is very disappointing (though not really related to the quality of the tech).
yeah, it's the "getting rich" part that...tips you off.
This doesn't make them bad guys, though.
Failure to take advantage of available tools does not suggest whether you are a good guy or a bad guy, just whether you are a competent guy or an incompetent guy.
Whats an example of a company, that existed pre-AI that has so far failed to take advantage of AI and has fallen behind?<p>I see a ton of examples of companies overusing AI and destroying their brand/image and products, but not many who abstained and are hurting. Using AI does not give you automatic wins, and using it solely because its available does not make you competent.
There’s going all in on AI adoption, then there’s what proton has done.<p>This is disgusting, full stop. Destroying any sense of trust in your company by allowing people to rat on others is going to bite them in the ass.<p>And all for AI, which ultimately is a tool that the largest portion of people already have adopted and those that haven’t often understand it’s the way forward anyway. Like instead of letting your people do this organically, maintaining trust in their org, you poison it instead. And for what? A few extra dollars in the bank? The greed is gross.<p>Not to mention the loss of customers/potential customers. I always thought proton was one of the good companies. That’s out the window with this news.
Discussion (84 points, 36 comments) <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50289692">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50289692</a>
I wish they can offer LLMs though an API with some good privacy (not a UI) since i can't come across any
Is it me or has Proton been getting more media coverage than usual very recently?
FFS. ProtonVPN is borderline irreplaceable as one of the three or so VPNs that you don't have to trust because they've been tested in court not to have VPN logs. Losing one of them hurts.
Does this change your estimation of whether they will keep logs?
Who are the others? Mullvad I assume, although they had their own brush with bullshit not too long ago.
And? What's the issue?
who cares? i'm not so sure the current quality of software can get much lower and responsible use of ai could have big upside.
You have got to be kidding me. One of the few companies I liked (past tense).
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Based on that 404 Media article I'm done with proton. They've lost their way.
<a href="https://www.404media.co/manifestos-fear-and-loser-thinking-inside-protons-ai-reckoning/" rel="nofollow">https://www.404media.co/manifestos-fear-and-loser-thinking-i...</a>
The CEO sounds like .. a loser. :) I'm kidding! He sounds very smart!<p>If the company isn't going to hit revenue targets they might actually need to fire people and this can be a good way to provide cover that devs aren't meeting requirements so they can be fired with cause.<p>A past company CEO sounded very similar to this internally before they fired 30% of the staff because they didn't have enough money.<p>My current vibe reading on CEOs who think every job can be done with AI <i>today</i> is the athlete who starts celebrating before crossing the finish line, to be passed bysomeone who takes the win. My guys, it's not that good yet!
Damn.<p>Any good alternatives?
<a href="https://www.tuta.com/" rel="nofollow">https://www.tuta.com/</a>
Is the only other major player I am aware of— although they have a significantly smaller product lineup than Proton, and aren’t as viable an alternative to Google for those who want a fully integrated suite.
Tuta does Mail and Calendar fairly well, cant speak to their drive product.<p>The other option is self hosting.
Andy Yen himself mentions "Tuta":
<a href="https://tuta.com/en/secure-email" rel="nofollow">https://tuta.com/en/secure-email</a>
After everything in the past six months do we really think that humans are better than coding agents at writing secure code?! This announcement honestly makes me more confident not less in their products.
Commonly attributed to Upton Sinclair:<p>“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”<p>Just like other advances in technology have replaced jobs, AI will replace jobs.<p>I'm sure the elevator opperators lamented push-button controls that anyone could just press too.<p>It sucks, but I imagine most programmers are smart enough to be able to pivot careers or how they do their jobs.
Do we really need humans writing code anymore though? Another year of development and AI is just going to be superior to a human writing code. It's already about 90% there.
Humans still write the code, we just do it using AI tools.<p>If we abdicate and let all software development and operations occur through the use of fully autonomous agents, someone is still ultimately responsible for the agents work/screw-ups. Thus, there is still a human writing code, from an ownership perspective. We all know it won't be the capital/manager class holding the stick there.
>If we abdicate and let all software development and operations occur through the use of fully autonomous agents, someone is still ultimately responsible for the agents work/screw-ups. Thus, there is still a human writing code, from an ownership perspective.<p>That isn't what "writing code" means. The responsibility is for using the AI, or being negligent in doing so, but the AI is obviously writing the code. That's the entire point of it.
...no? That's just called being a crumple zone.
Prototype self-driving cars where able to handle 90% of driving around 1990. Sometimes it is very hard to go from something that works very often to something that works always.
Depends on what do you mean by "writing code". Once, writing code meant punching holes in pieces of paper and feeding that into a machine. Then the technology changed. Writing code became entering cryptic numbers into the machine. Then the technology changed. Writing code became typing words and punctuation that have some passing connection to English but otherwise meaningless to a non-professional. Then the technology changed. Writing code became much more like writing text but still not resembling any actual text. Then the technology changed... It will change again. It still won't magically produce something sensible out of nothing.
Regardless of who or what writes it, it needs to be tested.
I don't even care about that. Sure, use LLMs to write code. But the way Andy talks to his employees and treats them is so disrespectful, I find it actually despicable.<p>Unfortunately, it's not super easy for me to migrate away from Proton, but it's the next personal tech project I'll undertake.
Ahh yes, the final ten percent is always easy to predict like this.
Companies need somebody to yell at when hackers get in.
This bubble can't pop soon enough.
You are right. Let's just hand the keys to everything to the AI companies. They've proven to be trustworthy and ethical. I trust them so much, I'm just going to stop thinking and say yes.<p>/s
That seems highly optimistic.