9 comments

  • maxdo3 minutes ago
    Electrek is boring , big news :<p>Gasoline truck statistics :<p>From 2018 to 2022, large trucks accounted for an estimated 15,462 fires, 46 deaths, 102 injuries, and $416 million in property damage each year. That works out to roughly 40 large-truck fires a day.<p>Overall, Gas cars ( regular size) , getting on fire more often vs electric cars.
  • avgDev16 minutes ago
    Difficult to deal with an electric semi that is on fire. For cars we have baths.<p>The fire from the batteries lasts hours, which is a huge issue for everyone else and the fire departments.
  • declan_roberts44 minutes ago
    You know a Tesla was involved in an accident because they always make it part of the headline.
    • elicash8 minutes ago
      It&#x27;s kinda like Apple where they both benefit from and also are hurt by the fact that putting &quot;Apple&quot; in the name makes more people click.<p>Added exposure&#x2F;free marketing when the news is good. But then if the Duo is having some issues with cracked screens, that&#x27;ll also get more attention.
    • reaperducer13 minutes ago
      <i>You know a Tesla was involved in an accident because they always make it part of the headline.</i><p>Because it&#x27;s novel. Once Tesla trucks are commonplace, it will no longer be noted.<p>No conspiracy to be had. It&#x27;s just like the news covers train crashes, and not train arrivals. Because they&#x27;re unusual.
    • ivewonyoung10 minutes ago
      They do it because it gets clicks and upvotes on places like HN and Reddit, almost never see a positive or neutral news article about Tesla on there. SpaceX successful launch news on Reddit would have like a 65% downvote ratio to suppress it, and it works.<p>I guess this headline not saying &quot;Elon Musk&#x27;s Tesla&quot; or &quot;Elon Musk&#x27;s SpaceX&quot; in a negative news article is a slight improvement compared to places like CNN.
    • BatchJob10 minutes ago
      Its actually not. Most Tesla accidents are not reported as such. And thats a problem.<p>Teslas are death machines which should be treated as such.
  • ortusdux1 hour ago
    Are battery fires like this more damaging to the road surface vs a diesel fire?
    • dekhn30 minutes ago
      Depends on context and the location of the road surface and the nature of the explosion.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfgate.com&#x2F;bayarea&#x2F;article&#x2F;Tanker-fire-destroys-part-of-MacArthur-Maze-2-2575285.php" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfgate.com&#x2F;bayarea&#x2F;article&#x2F;Tanker-fire-destroys-...</a><p>(Also, the rebuilding was epic, the only time I&#x27;ve seen the state and a contractor move quickly: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;longreads.com&#x2F;2024&#x2F;07&#x2F;15&#x2F;rebuilding-the-maze&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;longreads.com&#x2F;2024&#x2F;07&#x2F;15&#x2F;rebuilding-the-maze&#x2F;</a> )
    • ggreer52 minutes ago
      I&#x27;m not sure, but diesel fires are definitely more of a risk to people. Fuel can quickly spread and ignite before people in the vehicle (or bystanders) have a chance to escape. Lithium battery fires are more contained because individual cells spew flame, which heats up nearby cells, which then undergo thermal runaway. This means that battery fires take longer to release their energy, which is annoying for extinguishing them, but good for anyone who needs to get out of the wreck.
      • jacquesm32 minutes ago
        &gt; I&#x27;m not sure<p>&gt; definitely<p>If you&#x27;re not sure, why the definitely?<p>Lithium packs can light up (much) faster than you sketch here. The process you describe is correct in sequence but it takes about as long to read that sentence to get to a car that is engulfed in flame. More than one person died from the combination of toxic gases and heat before they managed to get out of the car.<p>Lithium Ion is a very bad battery type for anything that should be safe or moves, LFP is far better and LTO is better still.
        • ggreer11 minutes ago
          The &quot;I&#x27;m not sure&quot; referred to road damage. The &quot;definitely&quot; referred to risk to people.<p>The fact that some people have died in lithium battery fires doesn&#x27;t tell you if they&#x27;re a greater risk than petroleum vehicle fires. Around 500 Americans die in vehicle fires every year. Last year, EVs were around 3% of vehicle miles traveled in the US, so if they&#x27;re as dangerous as petroleum vehicles, we should expect 15 battery fire deaths in 2025. The actual number seems to be 2 or 3.
        • flanz_1018 minutes ago
          &gt; If you&#x27;re not sure, why the definitely?<p>They said &quot;I&#x27;m not sure&quot; to the road surface question, and &quot;definitely more of a risk to people&quot;.<p>Roads and people are <i>different things</i>.
          • jacquesm9 minutes ago
            Yes, and petrol and diesel are also different things. Completely different flashpoint and activation energy.
      • leonidasrup29 minutes ago
        There is a big difference between diesel powered engines and petrol powered engines. Diesel is much harder to ignite and this was for example big advantage for diesel powered tanks during World War II, in comparison to gasoline powered tanks.<p>&quot;They introduced many innovations as they built their designs, including bell crank suspensions, as pioneers in amphibious tanks, and the use of diesel engines that were less likely to catch fire compared with gasoline tank engines that were being used at the time.&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tanks_in_World_War_II" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tanks_in_World_War_II</a><p>The answer from an actual firefighter:<p>&quot; Diesel has a much higher flashpoint. This means the speed of deflagration is much slower. It cannot convert the diesel to vapour as quickly so can&#x27;t disperse the fuel as quick to spread the surface area.. &quot;<p>&quot; Leaking petrol is much more dangerous in an accident. It is far easier to ignite. If any leaking petrol contacts the exhaust or brake discs it could ignite causing rapid flame spread trapping people in the car. Diesel won&#x27;t do this. &quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.quora.com&#x2F;Is-it-possible-for-diesel-cars-to-explode-when-they-catch-fire-like-petrol-and-electric-cars-sometimes-do" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.quora.com&#x2F;Is-it-possible-for-diesel-cars-to-expl...</a>
    • paxy1 hour ago
      Regular cars usually burn out in 30 mins or less. It&#x27;s a fair assumption that a 10-15 hour fire would be more damaging.
      • mingus8850 minutes ago
        I’d think it really depends on the heat and proximity to the road<p>If a battery pack burn less hot and sits higher off the roadway, I can see it being less damaging
    • close041 hour ago
      Diesel fires are put out much faster than battery fires especially when the battery is huge and fully charged. Battery fires are also much hotter, up to 1000 C (~1800 F), metal fires are no joke.<p>Diesel damages the asphalt more in different ways. It attacks the binder in the asphalt and softens it up (after all they are both byproducts of the same crude oil precursor and just want to recombine). This process takes even days so if the cleanup is fast there&#x27;s minimal damage. Most of the fuel that doesn&#x27;t burn runs to the side of the road anyway.
      • GrinningFool8 minutes ago
        &gt; especially when the battery is huge and fully charged.<p>Huh, TIL: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;link.springer.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;10.1007&#x2F;s10973-018-7899-y" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;link.springer.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;10.1007&#x2F;s10973-018-7899-y</a>
      • ggreer1 hour ago
        Lithium battery energy density is much lower than petroleum, so the difference between a fully charged 100kWh battery (which weighs over half a ton) and an empty one is less than 3 gallons of diesel. Most of the energy expended in a battery fire is from the electrolyte reacting with the cathode material.<p>Over&#x2F;under-charged batteries are a safety hazard because they can generate hydrogen gas which can initiate a fire, but the energy released from the fire will be pretty much the same.
        • jacquesm28 minutes ago
          Lithium fires are brutal, they&#x27;re <i>extremely</i> fast and the toxic gases are just as dangerous as the fire itself:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reuters.com&#x2F;world&#x2F;asia-pacific&#x2F;about-20-bodies-found-after-fire-south-korea-battery-plant-yonhap-reports-2024-06-24&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reuters.com&#x2F;world&#x2F;asia-pacific&#x2F;about-20-bodies-f...</a>
      • tartoran1 hour ago
        Which fumes are worse, from EVs or diesel filers?
        • jordanb1 hour ago
          You don&#x27;t want to breathe either, but the answer generally is battery fires which can produce extremely toxic gas like hydrogen flouride<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=lADLvwAJs-c" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=lADLvwAJs-c</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hydrogen_fluoride" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hydrogen_fluoride</a>
          • ourmandave34 minutes ago
            Yeah, that&#x27;s on Derek Lowe&#x27;s list of things he won&#x27;t work with.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.science.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;blog-post&#x2F;things-i-won-t-touch-1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.science.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;blog-post&#x2F;things-i-won-t-tou...</a>
        • close041 hour ago
          Honestly no idea. But after receiving multiple fire trainings and talking to trained firemen, I have to say that all else being equal (and gun to the head because I actually want neither) I&#x27;ll take a diesel fire over a battery fire any day.<p>A lot of dangerous fumes come from the other material burning around the source. And at 1000C plenty of neighboring stuff decides to burn.
    • breckenedge57 minutes ago
      Lithium fuel can melt asphalt seams
    • darksaints1 hour ago
      Yes
      • zerocool01011 hour ago
        how?
        • xxs1 hour ago
          You can&#x27;t use a fire extinguisher for one to put it down. Li-Ion effectively self-sustain when ignited.<p>The only version of putting it down is letting it burn out.<p>Morealso diesel is hard to ignite on its own, hence the ICE use compression not spark
    • lakeviewterrace35 minutes ago
      Yes, but you can leave satisfied knowing no fossil fuels were burned in the creation of said fire.
  • pengaru43 minutes ago
    Wow, not much left of the semi - would love to see a photo of the metallic puddle it&#x27;s presumably become...
  • darksaints1 hour ago
    [flagged]
    • nxm1 hour ago
      Rant’s not one bit reverent
  • fourseventy46 minutes ago
    Is there an article every time a Mack Truck catches on fire?
    • georgeecollins32 minutes ago
      There is every time the fire shuts down the 880 for ten hours.
    • sonic4513213 minutes ago
      As the article points out, the fleet size of Tesla Semis is very small. And as this is the 2nd Tesla semi fire, this represents a much larger share of these trucks, than any single Mack Truck fire. If Mack trucks caught fire at these rates it may well make the news.
    • phyzome38 minutes ago
      New technology bears additional focus.
    • reaperducer9 minutes ago
      <i>Is there an article every time a Mack Truck catches on fire?</i><p>Yes, if you watch the local traffic reports. Absolutely. Why do you ask? Are you trying to imply something?
    • dpkirchner40 minutes ago
      Yeah.
  • vessenes1 hour ago
    The article is confusing - at one point it says the truck left the road, hit a bunch of stuff and caught on fire. At another it says they don&#x27;t know if it was a battery pack fire that spread. I&#x27;ll be interested to read the final safety reports and see if this was just an unlucky crash or something really bad happened with all that lithium.
    • orwin1 hour ago
      I think you misread. The article state tesla Semi has had 2 fire in 2 years. The first one because the truck hist stuff and left the road in Nevada, the second (this one, the subject of the article) in California for unknown reasons. This is relevant because the Tesla semi fleet is small (86 vehicles 2 years ago, probably below 500 atm) and because battery fire are hard to stop, so we want to know what caused it. If EV fire last 10 time longer than diesel fire, but happen 10 time less often (we need more studies but it seems this is the initial consensus), this is not really an issue, but if they happen more often, we _need_ to know why and fix it.<p>Also i don&#x27;t want trucks to catch fire everytime they hit a cow or a boar, the roads around where i used to live would be consistently closed :&#x2F;
      • cucumber37328421 hour ago
        Approx one (with a big error bar) fire per 100 vehicles per year sounds about right based on my unscientific dealings with auction oil field trucks.<p>My gut feel is that vehicles of all types seem way more disposed to fire than stuff from the 90s through 2010s.
        • hansvm1 hour ago
          For some other unscientific findings, that&#x27;d suggest 5 vehicle fires per year just from residents of my apartment complex. I&#x27;ve seen 1 in 8 years, and that was arson.
          • bryanlarsen29 minutes ago
            Those trucks are probably doing over 200,000 miles per year and your apartment&#x27;s cars under 20, so the fires&#x2F;mile ratio seems comparable.
    • mlmonkey1 hour ago
      That&#x27;s a different accident, and the last one involving a Tesla Semi (before the current one). The point they&#x27;re making is: that one involved an actual crash, but this one did not. So we should investigate this thoroughly to see what happened (as the NTSB is going to do, of course), because large vehicles should not spontaneously combust on a public highway, especially one as busy as the I-880.<p>On a related note: I wish companies like Tesla, which are conducting live experiments on public highways and thereby inconveniencing 1000s of people when an experiment goes awry, are held accountable and forced to compensate those who got stuck on the highway, missed doctors appointments, job interviews, deliveries, etc. Maybe something like a fine of $5000 per driver impacted should be levied, and given to each driver?
      • bdamm1 hour ago
        This is the point of insurance no? It&#x27;s the underwriter&#x27;s job to figure out what the risk probability of insuring a specific vehicle is, and then to represent that risk in future lawsuits while paying out the named insured in the meantime. If you think the traveling public should be party to insurance from vehicle collisions in general, then that&#x27;s a legislative framework change for all road users (and you can bet your behind that will mean higher premiums for everyone, which I&#x27;m personally ok with. We&#x27;ve externalized far too many costs. Let&#x27;s ban writedowns for exploratory oil drills too.)
    • _Microft1 hour ago
      The accident in which the vehicle left the road happened in 2024.
    • 2OEH8eoCRo01 hour ago
      What&#x27;s confusing? First sentence of article:<p>&gt; A Tesla Semi caught fire on Interstate 880 in Hayward, California, on Tuesday evening, and there was no crash.<p>Further:<p>&gt; The driver told officers the truck caught fire and that they didn’t know why. No other vehicles were involved.
    • close041 hour ago
      &gt; I&#x27;ll be interested to read the final safety reports<p>Are you still confident that the final reports will be free of interference and the agency investigating anything Tesla (Musk) related won&#x27;t be gutted before it gets the chance to issue anything damaging?
  • dam_jackalopes27 minutes ago
    I worked at a &quot;Semi&quot; OEM where we were doing work on battery, hydrogen powered, etc. development as part of the SuperTruck effort and these events are what kept us up at night. Really glad the driver was able to get out.<p>I suspect that we&#x27;re going to socialize the costs for getting first responders prepared (in so much as we actually do try to get them prepared) for these type of events. As a concept, that&#x27;s fine but it leaves a really bad taste in the mouth when you&#x27;re doing that to the benefit of an actor like Tesla.
    • AtlanticThird18 minutes ago
      You&#x27;re upset that we&#x27;re socializing the cost of training first responders, just like we have for all training for first responders?
      • dam_jackalopes7 minutes ago
        No, as I stated in the comment, as a concept there&#x27;s no issue with that.<p>The problem is that the costs for preparing for these events are going to be enormous, are going to be shouldered by systems that are struggling to maintain current capabilities and that those costs are not proportional to the benefits being received by having these vehicles operating.<p>The orgs that create the problem receive billions in value, mostly, from the federal gov&#x27;t while the costs are shouldered by local gov&#x27;t. This is before you take into account how those same orgs are behaving in other areas of society.