5 comments

  • 0c3ca831 hour ago
    Yes. It removes political power. As a thought experiment, what happens when sanitation workers go on strike? What would happen if all trash collection was automated?<p>What happens when a group of people goes from the driver&#x27;s of the economy to a cost center?
    • mx7zysuj4xew12 minutes ago
      They start waving flags around, voting for someone who will promise to &quot;make things great again&quot; all the while languishing in poverty and dying of fentanyl overdoses
      • Buttons8409 minutes ago
        The left tea party and left version of Trump hasn&#x27;t arrived yet, but it&#x27;s coming.
    • psadri32 minutes ago
      Perhaps the real answer is people’s buying power. If people can’t withhold their work, they could withhold their spending, ie boycott misbehaving entities.
      • 1011100119 minutes ago
        &gt;&gt; Yes. It removes political power. As a thought experiment, what happens when sanitation workers go on strike? What would happen if all trash collection was automated?<p>&gt;&gt; What happens when a group of people goes from the driver&#x27;s of the economy to a cost center?<p>&gt; Perhaps the real answer is people’s buying power. If people can’t withhold their work, they could withhold their spending, ie boycott misbehaving entities.<p>But if they don&#x27;t have work, they won&#x27;t have buying power to withhold. Post AI-displacement, the economy will reorient around serving the people who still have buying power (the oligarchs and their hangers-on).<p>Expect demand for food to plummet and demand for dick-waving pyramids and rocket cars to skyrocket.
    • jongjong49 minutes ago
      No it doesn&#x27;t. People can still protest, block roads, boycott etc... If they get UBI&#x2F;UHI, they will have more time to engage politically too (in a productive way).
    • augment_me55 minutes ago
      I think the economically rational choice is re-education of the group into value-providing employment and mass extermination of those that refuse.<p>Otherwise you might end up with disruptive things like protests, blockage of value creating infrastructure, etc.<p>Another less dramatic option would be containment in prisons or similar where minimal costs can be incurred.
      • pjc503 minutes ago
        Yeah, that for many people is a &quot;AI must be prevented from happening at all because it will bring about this outcome&quot; argument.
      • ElProlactin49 minutes ago
        The irony of comments like this is that the vast majority of people who make them would not be in the group they think they belong to.
      • akst3 minutes ago
        &gt; I think the economically rational choice is re-education of the group into value-providing employment<p>I say this who is voluntarily returning to university to pursue a different profession after working 10 years as a software engineer. This isn&#x27;t going to work for 95% of people, people who have dependents children and partners, mortgages.<p>&gt; mass extermination of those that refuse<p>I have no words, but you sound like a dickhead.
      • drivebyhooting50 minutes ago
        Don’t be daft. All that man power would be excellent for bolstering the army and invading neighboring countries.<p>I imagine a human body will still be cheaper and more agile than robots for a long while.
  • arnon25 minutes ago
    there was also a report i co-authored that talked about the tax implication, at least as of 2025 [1]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;get.paid.ai&#x2F;hubfs&#x2F;The%20$2.7%20Billion%20Agent%20Tax%20Crisis.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;get.paid.ai&#x2F;hubfs&#x2F;The%20$2.7%20Billion%20Agent%20Tax...</a>
  • verdverm1 hour ago
    We only need look at what the computer did to many (60%) non-college educated people who have difficultly finding meaningful work which can provide for a family.<p>Daron Acemoglu is talking about this and Building Pro-Worker AI. His 2024 Nobel Prize lecture is quite good (as are his fellow laureates that year)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nber.org&#x2F;papers&#x2F;w34854" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nber.org&#x2F;papers&#x2F;w34854</a>
    • nevdka29 minutes ago
      Why would you assume that was the fault of computers? There are many social, economic, and policy changes that would have much larger effects.
      • verdverm15 minutes ago
        It&#x27;s not <i>the fault</i> of computers, but they changed the fabric. It was a select few of our fellow humans, who also did deregulation, financialization, and globalization. They all started at the same time and have concentrated wealth and power the last 4-5 decades.<p>Computers are still a significant factor because most new tasks created were cognitive and needed university education. Or another way, the automation that computers brought eliminated jobs in labor, but we did not create new jobs for those people. The three others were instrumental in that side of the equation.
  • jdprgm37 minutes ago
    how the hell does paywalled content possibly get upvoted more than downvoted. are there really that many economist.com subscribers here?
    • SkyeCA13 minutes ago
      Most people read the headlines and nothing more, the same as with any other aggregator.
    • EtienneK35 minutes ago
      You can’t downvote submissions on HN.
      • shinryuu15 minutes ago
        What happens is that people flag content instead.
      • bezier-curve30 minutes ago
        Actually, you can&#x27;t unless you meet a karma threshold. I have been on this site for 6 years and I still haven&#x27;t reached it because my opinions are too controversial (apparently).
        • jraph13 minutes ago
          You can&#x27;t downvote submissions, regardless your karma.
  • cadamsdotcom56 minutes ago
    Change hurts those who don&#x27;t move with the change. Nothing has changed.
    • noufalibrahim28 minutes ago
      Of course. This has been proven again and again on the economic level. People have to let go of old skills and learn new ones to survive.<p>For AI though, there is a mental angle which is being discussed now (brain gyms etc.) which was an early concern of mine. When we make something, there is an tangible value created for the buyer&#x2F;consumer but there is also a more subtle positive effect the on the builder&#x2F;maker. e.g. even if it&#x27;s it&#x27;s cheaper, faster, (and in an imaginary worlds), more healthy to buy packaged food, sitting down and making it subtly changes the chef who makes the food. Sort of the motivation for a grandmother baking a cake for her grandkids.<p>I&#x27;ve been able to realise many of my abandoned projects due to AI. I can spin up a few agents and have them build things completely without intervention more or less. Many of these are programs I use daily. This is definitely huge. However, I remember the kick of struggling with problems during projects which was where most, if not all, the learning happened. All that experience is what makes me able to command and control these agents properly. It had an effect on me beyond the outcome (most of the projects are dead&#x2F;abandoned anyway). Another example - I remember an old company called &quot;Bond&quot; which had a robot to create stationery using a calligraphic hand. Contrast that to the almost spiritual effect doing calligraphy has on a master penman. Using automation to create fine calligraphy gets you the former but the individual and society loses the latter. It&#x27;s not immediately clear to me what the end result will be but I do feel that a lot is being lost.<p>This is the problem.
      • WelkinFolk10 minutes ago
        While I agree that new skills must be learnt to survive, what exactly are these new skills in the AI-age?<p>I see this line everywhere - whenever someone&#x27;s mourning their loss of a career, there&#x27;s responses telling the person to &quot;man up&quot; (for lack of a better phrase) and learn new skills. Nobody says what these &quot;new skills&quot; are?
      • axitanull15 minutes ago
        I like that calligraphy example, I am afraid that&#x27;s how a field would stagnate: the tools become advanced, but now with less and less people wanting to approach and struggle with learning the field, the human intuition, the community effort, and the mastery to push past the bleeding edge withers.<p>(Unless if AGI could do something like that.)
    • axitanull32 minutes ago
      This cliche keeps getting repeated, but it offers no actual insight and ignores all nuances.
    • djkdididjf15 minutes ago
      ive read the comments you make here you are on the level of tai lopez, you should stop opening your mouth the audacity of you doing so is astonishing