15 comments

  • p_j_w1 hour ago
    &gt;The cop said, “You’re under arrest,” grabbed her arms, and pulled her out of the room. “I can do this all night. I get paid by the hour,” the cop added.<p>Two sentences showing precisely why no one can trust the police. Not only are they completely unaccountable, but they will trample your first amendment rights and do so with smug amusement in full public view. These are the kinds of people we&#x27;re supposed to be happy to give massive surveillance power to?
    • paulddraper56 minutes ago
      An attendee interrupted the discussion on the law being passed, flipped off the council, and refused to leave.<p>How is that First Amendment rights?
      • pixl9753 minutes ago
        Looking at the the wrong way, what the citizenship in mass should be doing is surrounding the meeting with torches and making said council fear for their lives.
        • Aurornis40 minutes ago
          Violent threats only sound like a good idea if you can only imagine them being used by people you agree with.<p>A society that let small mobs carrying torches dictate your laws would not be good for you, me, or anyone other than the most violent vocal minority.
          • ashkankiani16 minutes ago
            You might want to look at how a small mob orchaestrated and comprised of Bush&#x27;s campaign flooded a voting offices to stop a recount, as part of a successful effort to steal the election from Gore <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Brooks_Brothers_riot" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Brooks_Brothers_riot</a><p>They didn&#x27;t even need torches to subvert democracy. I think a majority of Americans are under the misconception that they live in a civilized democracy, and that they have been for a while. But if you look under the covers (or if you&#x27;re a minority), or just learn history, then you&#x27;ll find that it&#x27;s not.
          • terminalbraid8 minutes ago
            You might be shocked to learn how &quot;society&quot; has been forged over history.
          • jst1fthsdys14 minutes ago
            &gt;A society that let small mobs carrying torches dictate your laws would not be good for you, me, or anyone other than the most violent vocal minority.<p>We talking about the oligarchs here or?
          • cucumber373284237 minutes ago
            &gt;Violent threats only sound like a good idea if you can only imagine them being used by people you agree with.<p>You mean like how they used the &quot;you can&#x27;t speak on an issue because we&#x27;ve decided we&#x27;re not talking about that&quot; rule to have this lady hauled off?
            • gruez28 minutes ago
              &gt;You mean like how they used the &quot;you can&#x27;t speak on an issue because we&#x27;ve decided we&#x27;re not talking about that&quot; rule to have this lady hauled off?<p>It&#x27;s not open Q&amp;A. There&#x27;s nothing preventing them from speaking on their preferred issue online, or even outside. Otherwise public meetings quickly devolve into anarchy. If a specific time was allocated to talk about speed limits, do you think it&#x27;s fair game for TERFs to use that time to complain about gendered bathrooms?<p>That&#x27;s not to say the mayor&#x2F;council is in the right either, but we also can&#x27;t have &quot;if you think the debate was shut down too early you can do whatever you want&quot;.
        • dekhn38 minutes ago
          Threaten elected officials with violence to achieve political aims? That seems counterproductive.
          • jst1fthsdys15 minutes ago
            Voting seems counterproductive too. Time for a change.
        • elzbardico39 minutes ago
          And please make Bastille Day from Rush to be the soundtrack for this.
        • paulddraper51 minutes ago
          Imminent threats of violence are not covered by the First Amendment.<p>Peaceful gatherings are covered.
          • G0lg0thvn47 minutes ago
            Middle fingers are and imminent threat of violence now?
            • scottyah43 minutes ago
              If you read the thread, you might be able to parse out what the user you responded to is commenting on...<p>&gt; what the citizenship in mass should be doing is surrounding the meeting with torches and making said council fear for their lives
              • pesus42 minutes ago
                Please engage in good faith and write comments that contribute, rather than taking away, from the conversation.
                • dekhn12 minutes ago
                  Please engage in good faith and write comments that contribute, rather than taking away, from the conversation.
        • cucumber373284238 minutes ago
          Gather up a dozen friends, dress like Indians and throw the politician in the harbor. Yes I know I&#x27;m mixing and matching historical references, that&#x27;s the point. Have one guy dressed as Elizabeth Warren, another guy like the redskins mascot and a third guy as Abu from the Simpsons like they didn&#x27;t understand the assignment. The point is to maximize the meme-ability of it so that you get a court of public opinion trial and not the usual kangaroo court trial that people who thumb their nose at government get.
    • throwup2381 hour ago
      [flagged]
    • rdiddly56 minutes ago
      [flagged]
      • paulddraper52 minutes ago
        Have you not heard similar from parents&#x2F;teachers&#x2F;chaperons?<p>&quot;I will take as long as I need, to get you to comply. Your resistance doesn&#x27;t make this go away, it just prolongs the inevitable.&quot;
      • dekhn53 minutes ago
        The article is written to enrage you. Including that &quot;zinger&quot; makes you angry at the establishment. After reading the article, while I sympathize with the woman who was arrested, I am not surprised at the outcome.
    • ostensible1 hour ago
      [flagged]
      • JKCalhoun45 minutes ago
        No.<p>(I suppose I have a little more respect for her, though. We certainly need more citizens like her.)
        • scottyah41 minutes ago
          No, we do not. Throwing a tantrum is not conducive. If you actually cared about preventing the proliferation of flock cameras, you would hate this woman&#x27;s actions. No solid arguments, no discussions, just making the opposition look like fools who just have rage and are using this case to feel important.
          • text040428 minutes ago
            &gt; No solid arguments, no discussions<p>From the article, she showed up to make solid arguments and have a discussion, but:<p>&quot;There was a resolution before the council that would trigger a review of the controversial camera systems, but Schrag moved to send the resolution to committee and prevent public comment on the issue.&quot;
          • chaps38 minutes ago
            I care about preventing the proliferation of flock cameras (and more) and I do not hate this woman&#x27;s actions even one bit.
      • dmos621 hour ago
        The implication is that holding up middle-fingers is illegal?
        • ostensible56 minutes ago
          The middle finger itself is protected speech. It does not create immunity for disruptive conduct at a public meeting, and omitting the conduct immediately before the arrest is misleading.<p>She got what she deserved. You can criticize. You cannot disrupt a public meeting and abuse people from the floor.
          • pesus47 minutes ago
            To be clear, you think someone being loud in a public meeting deserves to be violently dragged from the room because you&#x27;re offended by it? What other speech do you find violent removal worthy?
            • dekhn36 minutes ago
              The way you write is very accusatory and has very simiplified logic.<p>Many of us can be sympathetic while also knowing that disrupting a city council meeting is usually not an effective form of protest.
              • pesus33 minutes ago
                Maybe you should direct this comment towards the person I responded to and their litany of comments, because this applies far more there. I am far less concerned about hand wringing over being slightly impolite to people advocating for violent violation of people protesting the police state.<p>Edit: this comment officially got me shadow banned and I can no longer comment. The irony and hypocrisy is off the charts. Don&#x27;t offend the mods or their friends, people. Only they are allowed to get &quot;emotional&quot; and advocate for violence.
                • dekhn26 minutes ago
                  The person you&#x27;re replying to are making factual comments based on experience. You are not; you are working from emotion, and interpreting the article in an unrealistic way.
      • ElevenLathe1 hour ago
        What could you possibly mean by this?
      • someonebaggy1 hour ago
        Not really? I don&#x27;t see any part of the first amendment that says anything about middle fingers.
      • cucumber37328421 hour ago
        Flipping various members of your government the bird has probably been ruled free speech up and down every federal district in the country at this point. The Supreme court affirmed it at least once, maybe two or three times now.
      • Razengan46 minutes ago
        People who push shit like constant mass surveillance deserve much worse than middle fingers.
      • embedding-shape1 hour ago
        This has to be sarcasm, right? The added context is that she held up her middle fingers, as that somehow justifies anything but a shrug?
    • sippingabonedry50 minutes ago
      [flagged]
      • solenoid093749 minutes ago
        Why does a city council installing Flock cameras deserve respect?<p>Why do they get to use the police state to abuse people if they get disrespected?<p>Absolutely insane that the surveillance state is expanding (even more!) and this is what you&#x27;re concerned about.
        • gruez33 minutes ago
          &gt;Why does a city council installing Flock cameras deserve respect?<p>Because making respect contingent on &quot;whether you agree with the issue or not&quot; is a great way to make everything devolve into partisan tribes, eg. &quot;anti-abortionists: why do baby killers deserve respect?&quot;
          • jst1fthsdys4 minutes ago
            &gt; Because making respect contingent on &quot;whether you agree with the issue or not&quot;<p>It is when that issue is personal privacy and our fundamental rights. Why would I want to respect them when they want to further dehumanize us?
        • scottyah45 minutes ago
          This must be parody, do you not understand the basics of a functioning society?
          • Avicebron39 minutes ago
            Not taking the concerns of the people you supposedly represent seriously is more rude than a middle finger.
        • sippingabonedry41 minutes ago
          Act like a child, expect to be treated like one.
          • text040437 minutes ago
            And the mayor who refused public comments at the last minute? &quot;Act like a tyrant, expect to be treated like one&quot;?
            • dekhn35 minutes ago
              How familiar are you with city council proceedings? I think we need to know before engaging with you further. It&#x27;s not useful to argue with free speech absolutists.
              • text040423 minutes ago
                Very familiar. How familiar are you with the principles of democratic societies?
      • RunSet38 minutes ago
        &gt; Yeah because addressing the city council with your middle fingers extended is totally mature and appropriate of adults.<p>I think by reaching adulthood, let alone public office, most people have seen middle fingers before. Moreover there is no statute against being in public bare-handed.
    • Manuel_D1 hour ago
      [flagged]
      • burkaman1 hour ago
        There is nothing in the article about exceeding allotted time, and from the video it seems like she had just started speaking.
        • dekhn56 minutes ago
          The article does have some context:<p>&quot;&quot;&quot;The move passed 5 - 3, the crowd shouted at city leaders, and Schrag ordered citizens to clear the room and shut off cameras recording the event. As people left, police detained and ticketed Noah Powell. Later in the evening Mia Heider tried to speak out about Flock during public comments about a housing issue. Police arrested her while Schrag looked on. “Sorry ma’m,” the mayor said as police led Heider away in handcuffs.&quot;&quot;&quot;<p>Without defending anybody, it is generally disruptive to talk about a topic that is not on the current agenda but opinions differ on whether that can lead to an arrest. If you&#x27;ve ever run one of these council meetings, you&#x27;ll quickly see there are folks who just want to disrupt the process or make it go very slowly (these things often wrap up after midnight).
          • text040449 minutes ago
            According to TFA, the &quot;folks who just want to disrupt the process&quot; seem to be the city council and the mayor, not their constituents who came to give public comments about something that affects them:<p>&gt; The council was set to vote on Jensons’ proposed review on Monday and hear comments from the community. But when the resolution came up during the meeting, Mayor Schrag immediately pushed to send it to a committee and avoid public comment.<p>In a democracy, it&#x27;s generally disruptive to prevent constituents from petitioning for redress of grievances.
            • dekhn41 minutes ago
              Is saying the following (different person said this, but was also arrested) a petition for redress of grievances?<p>&quot;&quot;&quot;“Well, I said: ‘Jeff Schrag is a cuck.’ I said: ‘Fuck you Jeff.’ I said: ‘Worthless’ and then, also, the final thing I said was: ‘Jeff Schrag has a tiny, stinky, cock,’” Powell explained. “I just let myself get handcuffed and let them do whatever power trip they wanted to do. Got my ticket and left.”&quot;&quot;&quot;<p>I like democracy and I want people to have their voice heard but city council meetings are about getting business done, and they don&#x27;t guarantee that every single person will be able to speak at length about their grievances.
              • text040433 minutes ago
                &gt; Is saying the following (different person said this, but was also arrested) a petition for redress of grievances?<p>Yes, and it&#x27;s protected by the first amendment.<p>&gt; they don&#x27;t guarantee that every single person will be able to speak at length about their grievances.<p>In this case, they didn&#x27;t let anyone speak at any length about their grievances. Hence this article.
                • dekhn19 minutes ago
                  No, insulting a person is not a petition for redress of grievances. To do so, you must actually state a grievance. In this case Powell just wanted to insult the city council.
                  • text04048 minutes ago
                    That&#x27;s Powell. Heider was also arrested and prevented from petitioning for redress of grievances, going back to my point:<p>&gt; In a democracy, it&#x27;s generally disruptive to prevent constituents from petitioning for redress of grievances.<p>The real &quot;disruption&quot; here is the fact that the council and the mayor refuse to listen to their constituents, not that some of those constituents are angry about it.
          • burkaman27 minutes ago
            I agree it is disruptive, obviously that was the point, but it is not &quot;depriving the rest of the people of their abilities to comment&quot;. Had she been allowed to finish her comment, nobody would have been deprived of anything.
        • Manuel_D49 minutes ago
          That statement was directed about the trend of posting videos of people getting dragged away from council meetings, in general, not this particular story.<p>In this particular story, Heider was using the comment period on an unrelated issue to voice her complaints about Flock. Hence her removal once it became clear she was not talking about the issue at hand.<p>&gt; Heider explained that she waited until the public comment period for a different issue, filled out a form to talk, and then got up to deliver a written statement about Flock cameras.<p>At a high level it&#x27;s the same thing: people trying to use public comment periods for protests, rather than actually engage with the topic.<p>Consider this: what if at every public comments periods, anti-abortion activists incessantly took the stand at unrelated meetings to rant about abortion providers? This becomes so pervasive that good faith community members who actually want to engage with the topic at hand have reduced opportunity to speak. Of course removal of the former is justified if they refuse to abide by the rules of the council meetings.
          • G0lg0thvn46 minutes ago
            Really uneducated argument considering you’re just ignoring half of the context.
            • Manuel_D44 minutes ago
              What context am I ignoring?
              • text040440 minutes ago
                &gt; Dozens of people showed up to the Springfield City Council Meeting on September 22 with plans to let city leaders know how they felt about the city’s use of automated license plate readers. There was a resolution before the council that would trigger a review of the controversial camera systems, but Schrag moved to send the resolution to committee and prevent public comment on the issue.
                • Manuel_D38 minutes ago
                  That doesn&#x27;t make make it permissible to try and use the comments periods on other meetings to talk about Flock. The point remains, she was not removed for simply voicing opposition to Flock cameras. The was arrested and removed for trying to derail an unrelated meeting.<p>Someone going on the stand to rant about abortion during a meeting on sidewalk codes would similarly get removed.
                  • text040414 minutes ago
                    The person saying your comment is ignorant probably doesn&#x27;t care about the procedural rules. Instead, it&#x27;s because you&#x27;re placing disproportionate emphasis on citizens following meeting rules instead of being concerned that they&#x27;re denied the ability to speak about policies that directly affect them in a democracy.
        • paulddraper46 minutes ago
          The time was for speaking about building development codes.<p>Contrary to what some seem to believe, public discussions are not open-mic night.
          • JKCalhoun43 minutes ago
            public<p>discussions<p>I guess I don&#x27;t follow.
            • dekhn14 minutes ago
              Yes, you don&#x27;t.<p>We don&#x27;t live in a world where words literally mean what they say without nuance or context. We live in a world where &quot;public discussion&quot; does not mean &quot;all the people who want to talk about a topic of interest can disrupt a city business meeting&quot;. We also live in a world where the city council can table (US meaning) a discussion by sending it to committee.<p>Have you been to city council meetings, especially in places like Berkeley? They often go well past midnight and are filled with people just endlessly postponing important votes. These are business meetings that follow an agenda and the leaders have a significant amount of power to move the process along.
      • tranceylc1 hour ago
        I doubt the intentions of your argument when most of your time here is spent advocating for a surveillance state in the US. Is there a monetary incentive, or do you defend these companies because you dislike humanity?
        • adrianN1 hour ago
          Your comment would be much better without the last sentence.
          • bigyabai53 minutes ago
            Nah. Flock is a YC business, and they&#x27;ve been <i>extremely</i> insecure about the press they get (versus, say Palantir).<p>It&#x27;s about time that we start naming-and-shaming people that promote surveillance using strawmen and scapegoats.
            • bigstrat200332 minutes ago
              Yes, in fact it would be better without the last sentence. If one wishes to have a productive discussion, assuming bad faith on the part of your interlocutor is not the way to go about it. That just leads to flame wars.
      • ethagnawl1 hour ago
        &gt; When someone exceed their allotted time during a public comments period, that person is depriving the rest of the people of their abilities to comment.<p>Except ... nowhere in the article does it say that Heider exceeded her allotted time.
        • jacobgkau47 minutes ago
          She exceeded the allotted time to speak about the topic of Flock cameras, by starting to talk about them at all during the portion of the meeting about a housing issue. These meetings are about specific topics, not an &quot;every citizen gets X minutes at the podium&quot; free-for-all.
      • ChiperSoft1 hour ago
        She said three sentences. What was her allotted time, five seconds?
      • sippingabonedry45 minutes ago
        Your comment was shadow banned, and it&#x27;s unclear why.
      • FireBeyond1 hour ago
        Sure. And what crime was committed in doing so?
      • LazyMans1 hour ago
        [flagged]
        • 0c3ca831 hour ago
          Your only other submitted story this year has been promoting Flock&#x27;s &quot;new safety standards. Most of your recent posts are trying to promote flock. I wonder if you actually attend any local neighborhood meetings.
        • pesus39 minutes ago
          Your insistence on forcing Flock surveillance down people&#x27;s throats without consent is why your meetings had &quot;dreadful attendance&quot;. It&#x27;s pretty telling that your main concern was the attendance, too.
        • p_j_w1 hour ago
          Did you read the article?
      • LPisGood1 hour ago
        [flagged]
        • p_j_w1 hour ago
          Did you read the article?
  • _trampeltier1 hour ago
    As an european guy. Interesting to see things happen from far away. Knowing that crazy country has so much power, makes the near future of the whole world even more scary.
    • someonebaggy1 hour ago
      It&#x27;s not that much different in the most powerful parts of Europe. For instance Germany does this to people who talk about Palestine. So does the UK. Poland does it to people who talk about gay rights. I don&#x27;t know the equivalent in Spain, France or Italy.
    • CalRobert1 hour ago
      Indeed. Though omnipresent surveillance and restricted speech is an issue in some of Europe too.
      • izacus1 hour ago
        On the other hand, I see a lot of HackerNewsers and European geeks utterly angry at laws that forbid (blanket) recording of public places and GDPR which controls what the videos can be used for.<p>Every EU topic here is filled with people wishing for its destruction and dismantling of such privacy protecting laws.
        • scottyah37 minutes ago
          Europeans fear corporations more than government, and in the USA it&#x27;s generally the opposite. The USA doesn&#x27;t like when any entity gets too powerful.
        • pesus37 minutes ago
          Those are likely the same people who want to unconsensually force Flock and other mass surveillance on people. Most well socially adjusted people greatly appreciate those protections.
    • dsign1 hour ago
      Sadly, it happens here as well: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cybernews.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;denmark-arrest-lars-andersen-doxxing&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cybernews.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;denmark-arrest-lars-andersen-doxx...</a> ...
    • xnickb1 hour ago
      Thankfully we have no voting power in the said country so they don&#x27;t care what we think as long as we consume and overall behave. Let&#x27;s see how long this lasts though. It seems as though EU is approaching the finding out stage.
    • talon86351 hour ago
      EU is covered in cameras, possibly more than USA
      • input_sh49 minutes ago
        One <i>major</i> difference between being covered with CCTV cameras and what Flock is doing is the CC part of that acronym.
        • afarah138 minutes ago
          <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dw.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;german-police-expands-use-of-palantir-surveillance-software&#x2F;a-73497117" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dw.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;german-police-expands-use-of-palantir-...</a>
    • ostensible1 hour ago
      [flagged]
  • armadyl1 hour ago
    Improved title:<p>Woman Arrested, Dragged Away After Speaking About Flock (YC 17) at City Council Meeting
  • saghm46 minutes ago
    Her mistake was not dressing up as a supervillain:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;us-news&#x2F;2026&#x2F;aug&#x2F;21&#x2F;darth-vader-flock-cameras-san-diego" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;us-news&#x2F;2026&#x2F;aug&#x2F;21&#x2F;darth-vader-...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.404media.co&#x2F;doctor-doom-thanked-seattle-for-all-the-surveillance-cameras&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.404media.co&#x2F;doctor-doom-thanked-seattle-for-all-...</a>
  • Aurornis51 minutes ago
    They really buried the details in this article. The opener leads you to believe she did nothing wrong because she briefly spoke during a public comment period<p>&gt; Mia Heider had never attended a public meeting before when she showed up to the city council meeting in Springfield, Missouri. After briefly speaking at a podium during a public comment period, she was arrested and dragged away in handcuffs.<p>The details are toward the end. The council was trying to discuss a public housing issue and she was trying to use that time slot to bring up Flock.<p>&gt; Later in the evening Mia Heider tried to speak out about Flock during public comments about a housing issue.<p>They cut off the mic and told her it was the wrong topic, she wouldn’t leave the podium, flipped off the council (it’s the photo in the article) and the police hauled her off the podium.<p>There’s a real valid story in here about the city council sending the Flock thing to committee, but the article has been through the clickbait ringer so many times that they’re trying to make it sound like someone got arrested for saying “Flock cameras” during an open comments section, which isn’t true.<p>Given the topic I’m probably going to get downvoted for bringing up facts from the article itself, but I’m really tired of this type of journalism where you can tell they workshopped this and carefully chose which important details to bury at the bottom of the story so it gives a different impression if you only read the headline or skim the first couple paragraphs.
    • mandevil33 minutes ago
      I dunno, Council announces that they are going to be talking about Flock (YC 17), that there will be public comment about Flock (YC 17), sees that a whole lot of people are very angry about Flock (YC 17) and have come to the meeting, and immediately shift the discussion to a committee so they don&#x27;t have to hear those people angry about Flock (YC 17), I can see why she did what she did. That sure seems like the Council is trying to avoid all of the community anger over Flock (YC 17).<p>If you are going to do something that makes so many people so angry that they are willing to come to a local government meeting, you kinda have to let them talk about it, you know? Otherwise it feels like you&#x27;re trying to run out the clock on them.
    • TheChaplain42 minutes ago
      Thanks for bringing up the whole picture. No down-votes from me.
    • empath7540 minutes ago
      Giving someone the finger is not a crime.
      • Aurornis38 minutes ago
        Interrupting a city council meeting, speaking out of turn, refusing to leave, and then devolving into obvious defiance is, however.
        • ModernMech13 minutes ago
          Ah I see you are well versed in bureaucratic attack strategies on the first amendment! “We’re not violating your rights, there’s a special first amendment zone you can say all that where we can’t hear!”
          • dekhn10 minutes ago
            Can you instead try to see that people who disagree with you may actually not being attempting to subvert the first amendment, but instead are focusing on the necessary business city councils have to achieve? There are clearly limits on what you can say and do in a city council meeting.
        • freejazz35 minutes ago
          Well, she spoke about something &#x27;off topic&#x27; during public comments - if that&#x27;s the same thing as what you described, I&#x27;m not so sure.
          • gruez23 minutes ago
            &gt;during public comments<p>You&#x27;re conveniently omitting the fact it was public comments <i>for a different issue</i><p>&gt;Heider explained that she waited until the public comment period for a different issue, filled out a form to talk, and then got up to deliver a written statement about Flock cameras.
            • thereader121 minute ago
              Because the council canceled comments on the Flock issue that had been scheduled for that day.
            • Matl8 minutes ago
              He may be omitting that because it seems like a convenient way to not hear comments about an issue by switching to a different issue.
      • dekhn33 minutes ago
        She was not arrested for that.
  • rurban1 hour ago
    At least she wasn&#x27;t tortured and burnt. Yet
  • bell-cot1 hour ago
    Looks like the Mayor won&#x27;t face reelection &#x27;till 2029 - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;2025_Springfield,_Missouri_mayoral_election" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;2025_Springfield,_Missouri_may...</a>
  • slibhb1 hour ago
    Based on reading between the lines and watching the video, here&#x27;s my sense of what happened:<p>1. Some protestors showed up at a council meeting to complain about flock<p>2. The council moved to disallow discussion of flock cameras<p>3. The protestors started disrupting the meeting, chanting, etc, and were forced to leave&#x2F;were arrested<p>4. One protestor went to the podium and started talking about flock cameras, was politely interrupted, then had her mic cut. She flipped off the council and was arrested<p>If you oppose flock&#x2F;this kind of surveillance, fine. But this kind of behavior is not tolerated at council meetings, and it&#x27;s not a surprise that some of the protestors were arrested.<p>&gt; “Well, I said: ‘Jeff Schrag is a cuck.’ I said: ‘Fuck you Jeff.’ I said: ‘Worthless’ and then, also, the final thing I said was: ‘Jeff Schrag has a tiny, stinky, cock,’” Powell explained. “I just let myself get handcuffed and let them do whatever power trip they wanted to do. Got my ticket and left.”<p>I mean, really?
    • graton48 minutes ago
      &gt; 2. The council moved to disallow discussion of flock cameras<p>Not sure why they would do that. Our city council gives people three minutes to talk about what they want. Not sure why this city council wouldn&#x27;t do that.
    • G0lg0thvn56 minutes ago
      A lot pearl clutching going on here
      • gruez44 minutes ago
        I&#x27;m sure people like you making fun of &quot;pearl clutching&quot; would defend other cranks at public meetings, right? Or is it a matter of &quot;I only invoke &#x27;pearl clutching&#x27; if I agree with your cause, otherwise they&#x27;re being uncivil and deserve to be arrested&quot;?
        • G0lg0thvn36 minutes ago
          Nah, just call it how I see it.
        • freejazz34 minutes ago
          What&#x27;s to defend about cranks at public meetings - it&#x27;s a thing that happens... so what?
  • toomuchtodo1 hour ago
    Springfield, Missouri about to be sued.
  • api1 hour ago
    At this point I no longer think the US can say anything about the Chinese. Yes they have a surveillance dystopia and highly entrenched state crony capitalism, but we now have exactly the same thing.
    • someonebaggy1 hour ago
      The US was one of the earliest countries to have these things. China, Russia and even Nazi Germany were inspired by the US.
      • jackb404051 minutes ago
        I think it&#x27;s a bit reductive to compare China taking inspiration from America in the 20th century to Nazi Germany&#x27;s explicit admiration for slavery and the genocide of Native Americans.
        • api36 minutes ago
          Germany copied the wrong things then, just like we are now copying the wrong things (surveillance, cronyism, absolute leaders) from China.
    • I-M-S1 hour ago
      You don&#x27;t have remotely the same thing. You don&#x27;t have high-speed trains, housing that populace who don&#x27;t already own real estate can afford, a government that keeps the tech-oligarchs at a short leash and who mercilessly removes corrupt officials, functional public transit, functional anything public really.
      • clcaev45 minutes ago
        Unfortunately, objective... independently verifiable information is not something we could confidently say is standard practice in China.
      • talon863557 minutes ago
        [flagged]
    • jackb404049 minutes ago
      &gt; highly entrenched state crony capitalism<p>If your goal is to rescue the reputation of capitalism, people have found more success just calling Donald Trump a communist.
  • sippingabonedry35 minutes ago
    [flagged]
  • bpodgursky1 hour ago
    &gt; Later in the evening Mia Heider tried to speak out about Flock during public comments about a housing issue. Police arrested her while Schrag looked on. “Sorry ma’m,” the mayor said as police led Heider away in handcuffs.<p>I mean, what is the appropriate response to someone refusing follow protocol after giving guidance that there&#x27;s a different topic at hand now? There was a comment session on Flock cameras, people talked about it, then they moved onto housing. You can&#x27;t run a public meeting where people get to drag every issue back to their favorite issue uninhibited, it just literally doesn&#x27;t work. The meeting would run 24&#x2F;7&#x2F;365 and still nothing would get done.
    • someonebaggy1 hour ago
      Sure makes it awfully convenient to end a comment session when you don&#x27;t want to hear what&#x27;s being said. We are approving the budget for the death ray, do we have any objections? You have five hundred microseconds to object. Let the record show there were no objections. Guards, arrest that man for speaking after the time for objections has ended.
      • Manuel_D53 minutes ago
        The comment session was for an entirely unrelated issue.<p>&gt; Heider explained that she waited until the public comment period for a different issue, filled out a form to talk, and then got up to deliver a written statement about Flock cameras.<p>It wasn&#x27;t that the council disagreed with what Heider said, it&#x27;s that what she was talking about was unrelated to the meeting.
        • xboxnolifes43 minutes ago
          It was unrelated because the entire session about flock was skipped.
          • Manuel_D41 minutes ago
            That doesn&#x27;t make make it permissible to hijack other meetings. The point remains, she was not removed for simply voicing opposition to Flock cameras. The was arrested and removed for trying to derail an unrelated meeting.<p>Someone going on the stand to rant about abortion during a meeting on sidewalk codes would similarly get removed.
            • Matl5 minutes ago
              Translation: Those in power are allowed to execute &#x27;illegal&#x27; chess moves, (skipping the Flock discussion), but the public can&#x27;t do the same to try and discuss things that officials want to avoid discussing.
            • JKCalhoun35 minutes ago
              And arrested?<p>I doubt you are pro-Flock, perhaps you don&#x27;t like civil disobedience?
              • dekhn29 minutes ago
                Many of us on this thread have experience with city councils and are anti-Flock and pro-civil disobedience. We&#x27;re arguing with you from a point of praticality related to city business meetings. Practicing civil disobedience at a city council meeting is fraught with peril- for example, you&#x27;re preventing other people from having their topics discussed&#x2F;voted on. From my perspective, if your goal is to make actual change, getting arrested at a city council meeting speaking on the wrong topic is not a particularly effective method.
              • Manuel_D33 minutes ago
                The point of civil disobedience is to be arrested. That&#x27;s the goal of civil disobedience.
    • golf105252 minutes ago
      How it works in Seattle is that people are supposed to sign up and talk about things on the agenda for that council meeting but they are not stopped from talking about anything. This is why you&#x27;ll see people like Alex Tsimerman (look him up) speak nonsense at nearly every council meeting. The councilpeople just ignore those comments and I believe they aren&#x27;t included in the meeting record since they&#x27;re off topic.<p>There&#x27;s other ways to also try and limit the length of public comment, if there&#x27;s more than say 30 people signed up, reduce public comment from 2 minutes per person to 1 minute. Be aggressive about cutting mics rather than giving everyone 10 extra seconds. For topics that council knows will be contentious and attract a lot of public comment they&#x27;ll either hold multiple public comment blocks that day or literally just do a marathon session, 4-5 hours of just public comment.<p>Finally, if enough people are frustrated enough about an issue to constantly show up to public comment to talk about it, councilmembers should try meeting with those people at a different forum to at least hear them out to try and diffuse their anger. Council meetings should not be the only other place where residents can talk to their councilmembers.
      • dekhn31 minutes ago
        Thank you for mentioning this. I think a lot of people fundamentally misunderstand city council meetings and just how many disruptive people who want to play out the clock talking.
    • JKCalhoun37 minutes ago
      &quot;The meeting would run 24&#x2F;7&#x2F;365…&quot;<p>Maybe: 24&#x2F;7&#x2F;52<p>Or: 24&#x2F;365.25<p>(Always bothers pedantic me.)
    • iAMkenough50 minutes ago
      As a community leader, it would be to publicly acknowledge that there are concerns, then schedule a town hall meeting for their constituents to discuss those concerns with subject matter experts at a more appropriate time.<p>That&#x27;s apparently asking too much.
  • delichon1 hour ago
    &gt; “Well, I said: ‘Jeff Schrag is a cuck.’ I said: ‘Fuck you Jeff.’ I said: ‘Worthless’ and then, also, the final thing I said was: ‘Jeff Schrag has a tiny, stinky, cock,’” Powell explained.<p>I agree with the point she was trying to make. As a member of the public she should not have been arrested for being verbally abusive. But I&#x27;m OK with her being removed for subjecting the people who work there to that abuse. If she had made the same points with something approaching civility I&#x27;d be in her corner, as I still am with respect to surveillance.<p>If she were a coworker directing that to me, one of us would be a former employee by the end of the day.
    • sodiumjoe1 hour ago
      That wasn&#x27;t the woman (Heider).<p>&gt; “Hello, my name is Miley Heider. I’m a Springfield, Missouri constituent, and I’m here to oppose the usage of ALPR cameras, most commonly made by Flock Safety. These cameras are not just surveillance,” Heider started.<p>&gt; “I’m sorry ma’am,” Springfield Mayor Jeff Schrag said. Her mic was cut. A cop approached her at the podium.<p>&gt; Heider held up both of her middle fingers while continuing to speak: “They are an invasion of our privacy,” she said.<p>Powell was the other person arrested.<p>&gt; Heider was one of two people arrested
    • talon863558 minutes ago
      A reasonable take. It’s a hot button issue, and arrest is absurd, but these people are embarrassing and actually the most counterproductive way to approach this.<p>You want to know how to turn the masses of normies that could otherwise be persuaded to join you? Send in people like this to behave like this.
      • text040443 minutes ago
        1. That wasn&#x27;t her, it was someone else who was arrested<p>2. These <i>are</i> the &quot;normies&quot;:<p>&gt; Mia Heider had never attended a public meeting before when she showed up to the city council meeting in Springfield, Missouri.<p>&gt; Dozens of people showed up to the Springfield City Council Meeting on September 22 with plans to let city leaders know how they felt about the city’s use of automated license plate readers. There was a resolution before the council that would trigger a review of the controversial camera systems, but Schrag moved to send the resolution to committee and prevent public comment on the issue.
    • SmasherEpilepti51 minutes ago
      Those were two different people.
    • freejazz33 minutes ago
      I think the notion that she should be arrested because she called some counselor a cuck is a pretty ridiculous take away
  • gruez51 minutes ago
    This article is terrible. The story is already pretty good (for the anti-flock side), with the the mayor&#x2F;council was for shutting down debate on flock. The author didn&#x27;t need to devolve into ragebait territory, obfuscating what happened by jumping forwards and backwards in time between paragraphs.<p>Here&#x27;s a concise, non-ragebait, chronological version:<p>&gt;Dozens of people showed up to the Springfield City Council Meeting on September 22 with plans to let city leaders know how they felt about the city’s use of automated license plate readers. There was a resolution before the council that would trigger a review of the controversial camera systems, but Schrag moved to send the resolution to committee and prevent public comment on the issue.<p>&gt;Heider explained that she waited until the public comment period for a different issue, filled out a form to talk, and then got up to deliver a written statement about Flock cameras.<p>&gt;she was arrested and dragged away in handcuffs.<p>&gt;The cop said, “You’re under arrest,” grabbed her arms, and pulled her out of the room. “I can do this all night. I get paid by the hour,” the cop added.<p>&gt;The police officer who arrested her said Heider was being charged with disrupting the peace. He took her into the hallway outside of the meeting and held her in handcuffs for around five minutes before issuing her a ticket and letting her go.