> We should not let Hong Kong fade away. We should not let Joshua Wong fade away. Or Jimmy Lai, or others<p>Who are we? is it the people living in HK? then it make sense. Otherwise why would anyone else (someone else living on the other side of the world) care? People have their own countries to fix let alone worry about other peoples problems.
> Millions of Hong Kongers were determined to keep the freedom they had enjoyed. The CCP has won, at least for now.<p>Fundamentally, I just don't see this frame as being a path to long term success for HK. If it is them v. the CCP: the CCP is alert to the political risk of HK, outnumbers them, controls the local military, has better propaganda and has more of a claim to success given that the British Empire has failed, the US Not-An-Empire seems to be struggling and morally bankrupt. At least the CCP has been delivering visible improvements in prosperity over the last few decades.<p>It is a tragedy to lose the jewel of Asia that was old school Hong Kong. But they really need a frame that acknowledges a bit of the present political realities - there'll need to be cooperation with major factions in mainland China. Probably within the CCP. I assume there is a liberalising faction of some sort.
Here's how it started<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Poon_Hiu-wing" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Poon_Hiu-wing</a><p>A guy commited homicide and walks free after 19 months in jail.
At this point there is really no Hong Kong of old. China now fully controls that area, breaking a treaty with the UK.<p>Taiwan should take note and always remember what happened to Hong Kong because everyone knows they are next on the list.
> Taiwan should take note<p>It always had. The problem for them is that Trump is a bad ally. Their strategy is/was provide economic benefits to USA in return for a looming presence.<p>the implication being, don't try it china, its not possible, you'll lose too many people.<p>However thats not so much of a threat, partly because china has better anti-aircraft carrier weapons and partly because the US military has forgotten (well more accurately has fired the people who know) how to do logistics.
As I get older it becomes more obvious that the whole "moral arc of history" line is complete nonsense. Evil usually wins. Goodness is a strange outlier in all of history. It has to be fought for relentlessly, and is fleeting at best. The world as a whole now seems to be reverting to the mean.
This is bad American propaganda.
I’m sorry but what Hong Kong are we talking about?
And what advantages of democracy are we talking about? Unbridled inequalities fostered by a crooked ruling class with absolutely zero respect for international laws and diplomatic order?
This narrative could work when the US were still disguising their true nature. Nowadays… not so much
...and the Tiananmen Square Massacre.
This one time, turns out the colonialism was 100% on the side of moral right.
> This one time, turns out the colonialism was 100% on the side of moral right.<p>No, it wasn't.<p>It was just coincidental that the UK still held a 99 year lease (from 1898) when the communists took over mainland China. How they got the lease in the first place is another matter.
It was right every day after the communists took over China. That's quite a few years. And it was wrong of the UK to give back Hong Kong, as can be clearly seen today as China can't be trusted to honor the treaty, and certainly not be trusted to treat its citizens with a minimum of dignity.
USA propaganda. They try to weaken any democracy so they seems the least worst option.
(Of course there is other "worst option" countries, who wants to live in Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Rwanda, Uganda, Etc.? [allies of usa]).