9 comments

  • nashashmi2 minutes ago
    [delayed]
  • asploder4 minutes ago
    Has there been any reporting into whether Florida’s Turnpike Enterprise has adequate data access controls around SunPass? They have ALPRs to operate the toll-by-plate system on bridges and toll roads across the state.<p>In my view, that’s one of the better reasons to have ALPRs at all, but you do need strict controls to prevent misuse.
  • justanother23 minutes ago
    This refers only to Flock cameras. In Pinellas and Hillsborough counties (probably others or even most, but I cannot personally verify), there are non-Flock ALPR cameras on every major intersection stoplight gantry, feeding license plate and vehicular-fingerprint data to regional LE &quot;Fusion Centers,&quot; where Palantir&#x27;s Gotham product absolutely is in use. This is of course in addition to FDOT&#x27;s PTZ cameras also. Forgive a cynic for telling you that banning Flock on state highways is purely performative in such light.
    • nashashmi0 minutes ago
      [delayed]
    • chuckadams16 minutes ago
      The memo refers to all ALPR systems, and does not mention Flock at all.<p>It&#x27;s one page: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fdotwww.blob.core.windows.net&#x2F;sitefinity&#x2F;docs&#x2F;default-source&#x2F;design&#x2F;bulletins&#x2F;eom26-01.pdf?sfvrsn=52938dee_1&amp;Status=Master" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fdotwww.blob.core.windows.net&#x2F;sitefinity&#x2F;docs&#x2F;defaul...</a>
      • asploder3 minutes ago
        I’m sure they’ll clarify this, but wouldn’t that include SunPass toll-by-plate facilities?
      • justanother7 minutes ago
        In that case, marvelous. Here&#x27;s hoping it&#x27;s actually executed.
        • chuckadams1 minute ago
          This has the backing of the governor of the state, who I trust not one bit. But the removal is happening within 30 days, which gives him basically no wiggle room to undo it in a backroom deal.
    • spogbiper4 minutes ago
      &quot;On Monday, Aug. 31, the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) issued a memorandum revoking existing permits for automated license plate recognition (ALPR) systems, commonly referred to by the brand name &quot;Flock cameras,&quot; that are installed within the right of way of roads on the State Highway System.&quot;<p>Very first paragraph. &quot;Flock&quot; is basically being used like &quot;Kleenex&quot; here
  • thataccount48 minutes ago
    Florida is leading the nation on wise legislation where surveillance is involved in this example. It isn&#x27;t doing too bad on income tax and other pain points either.
    • CSMastermind46 minutes ago
      Moving here after living in NYC for a decade was a breath of fresh air. I had forgotten that competent governments exist.
      • cucumber373284216 minutes ago
        The local code enforcement situation is not great compared to a lot of other states due to how funding works (causes incentive to be predatory) but you probably won&#x27;t notice coming from NYC.
      • thataccount30 minutes ago
        &gt;Moving here after living in NYC for a decade was a breath of fresh air. I had forgotten that competent governments exist.<p>Kinda sad since even though NYC was always iffy, it was never flat out as useless as it is now.
  • jmclnx33 minutes ago
    I cannot help to think 1 or more politician or their children was caught breaking a serious law that they would have avoided if the camera was not there. So the fix is to ban the cameras.
    • cucumber373284213 minutes ago
      Doubtful. Look at the Kennedys. The political class was never in serious danger. Worst case they have to do a favor for the department that has dirt on them.
  • mc321 hour ago
    This is definitely a good step, however, ALPRs are not going away unfortunately. They have and are and will keep getting deployed by private businesses. They are too valuable for them at this time. The likes of Wal-Mart, etc., will potentially sell information to brokers and so on and some aggregator will resell the data to whomever wants to use the data.
    • paimapi33 minutes ago
      I once interviewed for a trucking logistics SAAS vendor who installed cameras every X number of miles to track shipments of freight. their moat was that physical surveillance network that they had already installed, cameras which scanned (like Flock) not just license plates but decals, looked for signals for driver awareness, collected EMF emissions to see if certain safety and satellite features were on, etc<p>now they said they didn&#x27;t sell their data to LEOs but their founders also literally used to work for the CIA (it was bragged about in the initial interviews)<p>I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if companies of that kind are a dime-a-dozen
    • techdmn1 hour ago
      Any business that puts an ALPR in their parking lot is a business I do not visit.
      • alexpotato57 minutes ago
        How would you know if it&#x27;s there?<p>I ask rhetorically but I also imagine that at some point there will be an app that tells you and then people will vote with their dollars to the places that don&#x27;t have them.
        • yesfitz52 minutes ago
          DeFlock already tracks ALPRs in private businesses&#x27; parking lots. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;maps.deflock.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;maps.deflock.org&#x2F;</a>
          • gruez11 minutes ago
            How do you know a camera is a ALPR camera? How reliable is the data, is it just random people&#x27;s unvetted reports?
        • mc3237 minutes ago
          It won’t matter. Slow encroachment. Everyone has learned from Google that slow encroachment gets what you want.<p>Price sensitive folks going to dollar general, wal-mart, etc., are not going to go shop at whole foods (assuming they even differentiate), and for people who go to ikea or Lowe’s for home goods, it’s not like they’re going to drive 30 miles out of their way to avoid ALPRs.<p>We can get pols to not deploy them with public monies, but I think that’s all we can do.
          • cucumber37328429 minutes ago
            &gt;We can get pols to not deploy them with public monies, but I think that’s all we can do.<p>If we tighten the 4th through 8th amendment case law to reign in the current wild west that is civil enforcement by holding them to the same standards for data access and imposing of penalties that criminal enforcement is the problem would be a lot smaller because then the tracking would be mostly limited to private interests who simply want to screw you out of your money but you can mostly choose not to do business with or will open up themselves to being undercut if they take too much.
      • izacus16 minutes ago
        Where are you gonna go when everyone has them?
  • josefritzishere1 hour ago
    This is the wrong thing to do, but we need more. Mass surveillance is a crime against humanity.
    • stetrain55 minutes ago
      Fundamentally we need controls on how both the state and private industry can store, use, and share such data.<p>Playing whack-a-mole with each specific type of surveillance and company involved isn&#x27;t really fixing the issue.
    • Lord_Zero1 hour ago
      What is the wrong thing to do?
  • shevy-java32 minutes ago
    It&#x27;s almost like in the movie Minority Report. The state knows where you are at all times (well, not entirely true right now, but to a high extent true now, at the least for car drivers).