a single RCT of 40 people is about middle-of-the-range when it comes the hierarchy of evidence and generally deserves, at best, a 'that's neat, I'll wait a few years for there to be more studies' if you don't want to do any more thinking about it or a 'I need to see it in context of other studies on the same thing' if you want a lot of work, or a 'I sure hope there's a meta/review on this' if you don't have the time but still want to remain skeptical<p>that said, there is GRADE-assessed systematic review and meta on mentha (ie mint) and <i>this</i> study's results are 7x the pooled effect size (SBP -8.5mmHg vs the -1.2mmHg pool of the other RCTs). this indicates to me that this is one going to be one of those outlier studies that future reviewers will keep if they think the design passes a bar but will make it clear in their Discussion section what the results are with and without this study because it is so aberrant<p>if you search mentha or peppermint in the American College of Cardiology website, you don't really get any results pointing to this intervention. this indicates to me that clinical significance is still a ways off
Noticing that the waist circumference on average went down on the peppermint group (85.17 -> 84.61) while the placebo group it went up (88.33 -> 88.65)? Also the resting heart rate dropped for the peppermint group. My initial suspicion is that the peppermint group coincidentally was also the 'got in better shape' group. Maybe the peppermint helped, but for relatively small groups that also seem to be improving waist circumference and heart rates likely due to good diet and exercise, I'm not convinced the peppermint did jack shit. More investigation needed! Would be awesome if it helped though!
There has been some research on spearmint suggesting anti-androgen effects in PCOS, which is a bit unexpected to me as I wouldn't expect mint-family herbs to have much hormone modulating effect at all. I would imagine there to be similarities in profile between spearmint and peppermint so perhaps a related mechanism is involved, although I would probably expect the opposite outcome as a naive layperson. But I haven't closely evaluated the paper nor do I know whether there's been much else suggesting this<p>It is important to remember that herbs are difficult to study in this setting compared with isolated compounds -- likely because their pharmacological and chemical compositions are sensitive to many factors: hour and season of harvest, form consumed (raw powder, alcohol extract, cold water infusion, fat emulsion, hot water infusion, combustion, pyrolysis, essential oil), part consumed (leaf, root, flower, seed), among staggeringly many others. Anyone with experience consuming cannabis or coffee can probably testify to the above<p>Not to mention that the pharmacologically active compounds in many plants are far from being comprehensively understood, let alone their interactions and dynamics<p>This isn't to say that every claim about herbs is to be taken seriously. My point here is more that there is no good reason to dismiss the herb itself as a cause yet simply because it's an herb and a fairly mundane one at that. There are easy examples of herbs which have pronounced physiological effects, used for recreation, performance enhancement, as literal poison, to induce labor, to thin the blood -- among others.<p><a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19585478/" rel="nofollow">https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19585478/</a>
So spearmint is not peppermint. Peppermint (mentha pipereta in this study) inhibits CYP3A4 and CYP1A2. CYP1A2 is in the liver and if that is inhibited then estrogen will route down the CYP1B1 path so the ratio of the two metabolites 2-OHE1 v.s 4-OHE1 would be altered. For the PCOS (renamed to PMOS btw) if they start with elevated 2-OHE1 after the peppermint this could result in improve estrogen signaling because the now raised 4-OHE1 has much higher affinity than the 2-OHE1 for ESR1 (Era). ESR1 in particular is known for lowering blood pressure.<p>This particular path isn't that crazy, but it would only be for a subset of folk. From the study there is something simpler: menthol acts as a natural calcium-channel blocker, triggering vasodilation to reduce blood pressure.
>I wouldn't expect mint-family herbs to have much hormone modulating effect at all<p>Mints are closely related to pennyroyal (Mentha pulegium), which was traditionally (and dangerously because of toxicity) used as an abortifacient. Its mechanism of action is still unknown, so hormone modulating effects seem plausible to me.
By "mints" I meant the family lamiaceae, so pretty broadly which contains sages, rosemaries, basils, teak, verbena, and in hindsight of course contains examples like this which straddle medicine (depending on dosage and circumstances -- I'm not advocating it be used as such) and poison. Even if just restricting to the genus mentha apparently. Anyway good call
Sit and drink pennyroyal tea,
I’m anemic royalty.
Also used as lactation reducing herb.
But weight/mass didn't change one bit (okay exaggeration, but not by much), so maybe peppermint helps relieve gas. Who knows? There's a lot that this data could mean, and no simple way to figure it out.
It's actually prescribed for that: <a href="https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/peppermint-oil/" rel="nofollow">https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/peppermint-oil/</a>
i actually had heard it helps w/ bloating/stomach issues online and took for a while and def noticed a debloating effect and less gas... obviously 1 anecdote, but I'd assume any slight waistline reduction is due to that. Also sidenote: pooping often made it feel like I put a breathmint... up... "there" lol
Not surprising, it’s what happens to capsaicin too. Something has to happen to the molecules/compounds you consume. Either your body discards them, stores them, or transforms them.<p>The fascinating part is that your anal tissue has that level of sensitivity and insight.
Funniest thing today so far.
Peppermint oil has traditionally been used in India for digestion, so you may be on to something. I remember this particular brand growing up: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/clp/B001NQ7S9G" rel="nofollow">https://www.amazon.com/clp/B001NQ7S9G</a> (no relation).
Nothing but blood pressure and heart rate was significant, and heart rate only barely so. I wouldn't read anything into the other numbers. It was a 20 day study, you aren't going to get long term outcomes from that.
I'd think weight could be causal for hypertension result or sentiment over health measurement could have been causal for weight or the study could just be too small.
Maybe it helps with weight loss (I wish)
Wild-ass guess: maybe the aftertaste of peppermint oil twice daily leaves people who are already unhealthy wanting to snack less, leading to minor weight loss.
Whenever I see a study like this I assume that the researchers won the p<0.05 lottery
Classic xkcd on this topic <a href="https://xkcd.com/882/" rel="nofollow">https://xkcd.com/882/</a>
If you've tried 20 things, you've probably won that lottery. It's an easy lottery to win.
There are two types of <i>peppermint</i> supplements being <i>sold</i>: mentha pipereta that this study looked at, and mentha arvensis.<p>I wonder if mentha arvensis has the same effect. Supplements vs mint tea would be another interesting thing to study in future.
Based on your new information, I think it would be good to test the effect of <i>supplemenths</i> vs <i>supplemints</i>.
im bored and want to buy some peppermint sups. someone drop a brand and sell me on it in the marketplace of ideas
So does it therefore reduce stress? Anyone?
Aren’t people generally getting some via toothpaste?
Well, mint tea does make me sleepy
HN really upvotes some dumb medical articles, come on, n=20 about peppermint?
I've got an n=65 about hibiscus and blood pressure, which has been better well known for awhile. <a href="https://www.ars.usda.gov/news-events/news/research-news/2008/study-shows-consuming-hibiscus-tea-lowers-blood-pressure/" rel="nofollow">https://www.ars.usda.gov/news-events/news/research-news/2008...</a>
Silence, we have disruptive direct to consumer peptide startups that need to pump.
From PLOS One as well! I remember in college, I was taking a bio class that taught how to read journal articles...and a psych class that was assigning them. Psych class assigned almost solely PLOS One articles...which didn't survive the criticism I was being taught in the bio class lmao
If there's anything consistent about HN as long as I've been on it, it's that HN is orthorexic.
That is very accurate sphygmomanometry!
I'm guessing that this number is the result of the average of "x" people in the study, and not an individual measurement. But, yeah, I see what that looks like.
The funny thing is, I've read countless meta-analyses on various mainstream drugs, where total n=hundreds of thousands, and I still don't know if they work at all or not.
Peppermint group N=20. Mkay. 2 of those lost to followup, one because they didn't like the taste (control group got peppermint cordial). The result might be real but needs followup before we all starting gulping down peppermint oil.
Doctor Bronner was right!<p>Peppermint - Pure-Castile Magic Soap:
Cool, Refresh, and Awaken with Invigorating Peppermint<p><a href="https://www.drbronner.com/products/peppermint-pure-castile-liquid-soap" rel="nofollow">https://www.drbronner.com/products/peppermint-pure-castile-l...</a><p>Dr. Bronner invented the peppermint oil soap for soiled diapers<p><a href="https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/1978/nov/02/cover-look-for-the-soap-with-the-peace-plan-on-the" rel="nofollow">https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/1978/nov/02/cover-look-f...</a><p>Created in California: How Dr. Bronner’s became the soap for every subculture<p><a href="https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-07-12/dr-bronners" rel="nofollow">https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-07-12/dr-bronner...</a><p>>Perhaps inspired by that experimental ethos, customers have discovered their own unusual uses in the years since Emanuel started mixing gallons of peppermint castile soap out of his Pershing Square tenement apartment in 1948. [...]<p>>David, Mike and Lisa Bronner grew up in Glendale, not giving much thought to the prospect of one day taking over the family business and generally regarding their grandfather as a bewildering figure.<p>>“My granddad was always talking about uniting ‘Spaceship Earth,’ and it was kind of sailing over our heads,” David said.<p>>“He’d be talking to us as if we were all PhD students in religious studies,” Mike said of visits to Emanuel’s home when the siblings were in elementary school. “He was blind, and every once in a while he would say, ‘Are you there?’ and we’d be like, “All-one, Grandpa!’ And he’d be like, ‘Very good. OK, I want you to recite the peppermint bottle.’”<p>Lisa Bronner: The Poetry of the Lavender Label<p><a href="https://www.lisabronner.com/the-poetry-of-the-lavender-label" rel="nofollow">https://www.lisabronner.com/the-poetry-of-the-lavender-label</a><p>>The label on the quart size of the Lavender Pure-Castile Magic Soap holds the greatest insight for me into his motivations and goals. The Peppermint label records the tenets of his Moral ABC, his guidelines for humanity to find unity and a path forward. But it is the Lavender quart that hosts his poetry, and in that I see his heart. [...]<p>>"To keep my health! To do my work! To love, to live!"<p>>"Great peace is found in little busyness."<p>>"Work well yourself and work for all."<p>>"Til we rally, raise, unite!"<p>>"All-One-God-Faith, All-One! Unite!"<p>>"Lives of great men all remind us we can make our lives sublime."<p>>"Life is real! Life is earnest! And the grave is not its goal."<p>>"Let us then be up and doing ... still achieving, still pursuing"<p>>"In all we do, let us be generous, fair & loving to Spaceship Earth and all its inhabitants."<p>>"We're ALL-ONE OR NONE! ALL-ONE!"
Also works well for IBS. Popular brand name green box. Bit pricey.
herbal tea is good for you, it seems