5 comments

  • txrx00002 minutes ago
    The article&#x27;s definition of consciousness is precise, but it&#x27;s not what people are referring to in most cases where the word &quot;consciousness&quot; is used. Of course, a word can have multiple definitions. But colloquially, when people say consciousness, we usually mean the thing that goes away when we sleep or are anesthetized. I don&#x27;t think there&#x27;s a much better way to define that. <i>The contrast between the wakeful and non-wakeful state as oneself experiences from the inside</i> is precisely what defines consciousness in the colloquial sense. It seems to be a self-defining concept because I can&#x27;t even define what &quot;experiences&quot; means without thinking about the wakeful&#x2F;non-wakeful contrast phenomena that is consciousness, and &quot;experiences&quot; was supposed to be a part of the definition of &quot;consciousness&quot; one sentence ago.
  • GlenTheMachine6 minutes ago
    Isn&#x27;t this a testable hypothesis? If consciousness spread virally and isn&#x27;t a natural outgrowth of the physical structure of the brain, then presumably isolated indigenous tribes would still have pre-consciousness mental processes, and that should be detectable somehow.<p>The being said, I&#x27;m reading &quot;Proto&quot; By Laura Spinney, and the thing that strikes me is how recently the world&#x27;s major languages developed. Everyone <i>assumes</i> we had language fifty thousand years ago, but the actual language families we know about all seem to trace to no more than about 10,000 BCE, and maybe a lot younger than that. The odds of Proto-Indo-European being traceable to a single tribe in the Black Sea region circa 4500 BCE seem really low to me, but that&#x27;s what seems to have happened.
  • pavel_lishin50 minutes ago
    I think this was also one of the inspirations for Neal Stephenson&#x27;s &quot;Snow Crash&quot;, which also deals with (among other things) the nature of consciousness and religion in the human mind.
    • mjd10 minutes ago
      It was definitely the inspiration for one of the subplots of _The Big U_. A faction of college students regressed to a bicameral mentality and would hold rituals in which they waited for oracular speech from an electric fan.<p>I remember thinking at the time I read it “I don&#x27;t know how anyone could understand this book without reading Jaynes first”.
  • ElFitz29 minutes ago
    And yet anendophasia is a thing. Some people think without an inner monologue, without words[^0]. And they seem to do so quite well and quite successfully.<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;johnrmiles.com&#x2F;life-without-an-inner-monologue&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;johnrmiles.com&#x2F;life-without-an-inner-monologue&#x2F;</a>
  • N_Lens42 minutes ago
    I find the description of consciousness in this article very narrow (Only arising post language). Post language consciousness is a particular type of consciousness, and the same can be said of post DMT consciousness (Which is sometimes without language).
    • mjd8 minutes ago
      That&#x27;s exactly Jaynes&#x27;s theory: consciousness not only arrived after the invention of language, it arrived after the invention of writing, literature, agriculture, metallurgy, and government bureaucracy. And also, that it _could not_ have arisen without language because it is crucially founded in the capability of language to describe the world metaphorically.<p>You don&#x27;t have to like it, but that&#x27;s the theory that is being discussed.
    • TheHardProblem9 minutes ago
      As somebody who understands the perceived limitations of the materialist take on consciousness in light of recent decades of seeming philosophical traction (Searle, Chalmers), I have to admit how many ways LLMs proved me wrong.<p>Rather, how much of it <i>is</i> just language.<p>We went from completing words to completing sentences, paragraphs, essays, code files, pixel arrangements, music, and more just by aggregating and modeling all that in English.<p>I was amazed that predicting a word can emerge into knowledge, creativity, productivity - the stuff of thoughts.<p><i>It doesn’t happen to anyone</i> (the thinking) but I think they still qualify as thoughts, just without a thinker.