4 comments

  • senshan1 hour ago
    Brazil? Why a Brazilian patent is of such a significant interest elsewhere?
    • nemomarx1 hour ago
      I think this was the final patent on it that was valid anywhere, so now the status changes from "someone has a patent globally and we need to consider this" to "no one has a patent." If you're distributing something globally, even one market that still has the patent might stop you from default shipping a driver touching on it, or you might have to worry about court orders at least. It's hard to avoid jurisdictions on the open web.
      • senshan44 minutes ago
        Right, but I thought it matters only if you <i>sell</i> something globally. Linux is distributed for free, so the burden of patent compliance is on the user, isn&#x27;t it?
        • nemomarx42 minutes ago
          Not a lawyer, but patent law refers to distribution too. It shouldn&#x27;t matter if it&#x27;s free or has a price if they can say you&#x27;re distributing it to Brazilian users.
  • ChrisArchitect2 days ago
    Discussion on the news in July: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=48969635">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=48969635</a>
  • unfitted25453 days ago
    Are patents a necessary evil?
    • dlcarrier3 days ago
      I used to think they were entirely useless, but since then I&#x27;ve learned of many instances where a much better technology is developed because the first iteration is patented.<p>For example, the Wright brothers biggest contribution to aviation was suing everyone using wing warping (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Wright_brothers_patent_war" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Wright_brothers_patent_war</a>) which greatly advanced the adoption of the much more advanced ailerons.<p>Software patents have a similar effect, for example Cisco&#x27;s patent on Virtual Router Redundancy Protocol led to the development of the more secure and more capable Common Address Redundancy Protocol (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;jacobfilipp.com&#x2F;DrDobbs&#x2F;articles&#x2F;SA&#x2F;v14&#x2F;i05&#x2F;a6.htm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;jacobfilipp.com&#x2F;DrDobbs&#x2F;articles&#x2F;SA&#x2F;v14&#x2F;i05&#x2F;a6.htm</a>).<p>We tend to invest heavily in whatever we can get working first, but it&#x27;s rarely close to an ideal way of doing something. By pushing every developer to find a newer, better way of doing something, patents prevent stagnation and lead to more advanced technologies.
      • somat1 hour ago
        The wright brothers patent was not on wing warping, it was on controlling a vehicle in the air. In short the Wright brothers did not invent the aeroplane they invented how to control a aeroplane.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wright-brothers.org&#x2F;History_Wing&#x2F;Wright_Story&#x2F;Showing_the_World&#x2F;Politics_&amp;_Patents&#x2F;Patent_821343.htm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wright-brothers.org&#x2F;History_Wing&#x2F;Wright_Story&#x2F;Sh...</a><p>&quot;We wish it to be understood, however, that our invention is not limited to this particular construction, since any construction whereby the angular relations of the lateral margins of the aeroplanes may be varied in opposite directions with respect to the normal planes of said aeroplanes comes within the scope of our invention.&quot;<p>Some people (Curtis) felt this claim was far too encompassing and should not be enforced. But I don&#x27;t know, These guys just spent a decade working out an entirely new discipline, aeronautical control. And you don&#x27;t think they deserve exclusive exploitation rights to that discipline for the next 20 years?
      • wmf8 minutes ago
        For every case like this, there&#x27;s a patent on an optimal method which forces everyone to use suboptimal workarounds.
      • cogman103 days ago
        This sort of benefit in software can be realized with much shorter terms. A 5 or 10 year term would accomplish pretty much all the same benefits. 25 years is just way too long for software.
        • dlcarrier3 days ago
          The benefit comes from no one ever using the earlier inferior versions.
          • cogman103 days ago
            Correct. 5 years is long enough to kill off inferior standards and let superior ones blossom.
      • fluoridation3 hours ago
        Having people create new technology to avoid arbitrary legal hurdles instead of adopting existing and perfectly functional technology doesn&#x27;t seem particularly efficient.
        • SoftTalker2 hours ago
          The intent of the patent system is to encourage publishing innovation in exchange for rights to it for a period of time, and then everyone gets to use it. IMO the biggest problem has been granting patents for inventions that at least in retrospect seem non-novel or obvious. I get that there&#x27;s a grey area there at some point, but &quot;one click ordering&quot; is one that comes to mind. Just because someone hasn&#x27;t done it exactly like that before, should not make such a simple idea patentable. And I think patents should be on specific implementations, not general ideas. If I can implement the end-user experience of one-click ordering without substantially copying Amazon&#x27;s underlying technology, that should be fair to do.
          • fluoridation2 hours ago
            &gt;the biggest problem has been granting patents for inventions that at least in retrospect seem non-novel or obvious.<p>I don&#x27;t agree that that&#x27;s the biggest problem. I think the biggest problem is that patents are abused to stifle competition by refusing licenses or putting untenable fees on them. No one would have cared about Nintendo&#x27;s D-pad patent if they&#x27;d just put a reasonable license fee on it. On the other hand, a patent like MP3 I would argue is quite legitimate, but putting a patent on a coded just makes interoperability more difficult. If MPEG had charged licenses for decoding chips and explicitly allowed software implementations, that would have things so much more smoother.
        • shibapuppie2 hours ago
          Trying to harp on anyone here about &quot;efficiency&quot; is going to fall on deaf ears.<p>Whether it&#x27;s single passenger cars or AI, nobody really understands how inefficient they and their lives are.
      • autoexec3 hours ago
        &gt; Cisco&#x27;s patent on Virtual Router Redundancy Protocol led to the development of the more secure and more capable Common Address Redundancy Protocol<p>This seems like a success story in spite of software patents, not because of them. Just because they were forced to develop a new protocol in order to avoid getting sued for using Cisco&#x27;s doesn&#x27;t mean that they wouldn&#x27;t still have improved on what Cisco had if they&#x27;d been allowed to use and modify it freely. The lack of lawsuits hanging over everyone&#x27;s head certainly hasn&#x27;t prevented innovation from happening in FOSS.
      • jquery2 hours ago
        I’m not sure how you can read that Wright Brothers wiki article and come away thinking patents worked in America’s favor…
        • msie1 hour ago
          Maybe dlcarrier is AI?
      • AnimalMuppet2 hours ago
        The Wright brothers sued Curtiss specifically for ailerons, and won. Ailerons were ruled to be a form of wing warping.
      • anthk2 hours ago
        Now imagine what would happened if Euclid&#x27;s books (and Newton&#x27;s Principia) were Copyrighted until today.
        • foobar196229 minutes ago
          That&#x27;s confusing copyright with patents. The right to publish Newton&#x27;s books is separate from being able to apply the knowledge which a patent protects. Note that math equations cannot be patented.
    • _carbyau_52 minutes ago
      A patent was meant to give a solo genius a way to treat their idea as something tangible, at a time when logistics was much slower and the world revolved around the physical.<p>Maybe they try to develop it themselves, maybe they sell the idea to a big corporation that has the resources to implement it. Either way, genius begets profit, and the world gets genius ideas... in theory anyway.<p>But a genuine idea back then needed a long time frame to actually do something with it. 20 years seemed reasonable at the time.<p>The world is less logistically constrained these days. Make it 5 years, no renewals.
      • Shitty-kitty0 minutes ago
        A patent is meant to encourage people and companies to share the details of their inventions, instead of keeping them secret. In return the inventors get protection for a certain number of years.
    • somat1 hour ago
      I don&#x27;t think patents are inherently evil, however they certainly can be used for evil.<p>But The basic idea is sound. If you invent a novel mechanism and publish it the government will grant you exclusive economic exploitation rights to that mechanism for the next 25 years. After that it is now fair game.<p>It is an attempt to solve the real problem that it is much harder to be first than second, the guy in first place has to spend all that time and effort to develop the thing, and the guy in second just has to copy the guy in first. To rectify this social injustice the patent system was developed, where the government would grant and enforce economic exploitation rights of the mechanism to the inventor.
    • ThrowawayTestr3 days ago
      Software patents, no. They&#x27;re just evil.
      • yndoendo2 hours ago
        Depends on how they are used.<p>Let say you come up with a patent. You let open source use the patent, GPL3 ..., for free why charging close source solutions.<p>That could go to funding the open source development or other gains. FANNG has the money, take it from the them by all means.
    • bitwize56 minutes ago
      Software patents may be what saves the field. Currently copyright as an IP protection for software has been rendered near meaningless by AI. If I can get one AI to reverse engineer Photoshop, and another to implement the produced spec, I have a copyright-clean version of Photoshop.<p>Patents protect the <i>idea</i> of a particular program. And in the post-AI world, it&#x27;s the idea that holds the value, not the implementation. Implementations are cheap now.<p>Another alternative to preventing the entire software market from collapsing is to revive the <i>Whelan v. Jaslow</i> copyright standard, under which the abstract &quot;structure, sequence, and organization&quot; of a program is eligible for copyright. But programmers would bristle at that almost as much as robust patent protection for software. Until, that is, the money comes in with mouths to feed and mortgages to pay...
  • aaron6952 hours ago
    [dead]