19 comments

  • randusername30 minutes ago
    Tired of these absolutes.<p>Software <i>should</i> be about the code, but not for every person on every project for all parts of that project.<p>It&#x27;s great to &quot;wake up&quot; and realize that code doesn&#x27;t have the intrinsic value you might have assumed, but you can also take that knowledge and go right back to writing beautiful code where it best serves the bigger mission.
    • CodeMage7 minutes ago
      &gt; Tired of these absolutes.<p>Now, <i>that</i> is a letter to new developer that I wish I had read when I was a new developer:<p>Dear new developer,<p>Be careful when reading blogs. A lot of stuff you&#x27;ll read online is insightful, informative, innovative, or inspiring. By all means, enrich your life with what you read, but be sure to also re-read &quot;Wind in the Willows&quot; from time to time and reflect on the character of Mr. Toad.<p>Regards,<p>Someone Who Made The Mistake of Putting Certain Bloggers on a Pedestal
  • knuckleheads1 hour ago
    &quot;Software [ought to be] about people, not code&quot;<p>Related but not quite the same as <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Is%E2%80%93ought_problem" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Is%E2%80%93ought_problem</a>
  • agentultra30 minutes ago
    I think people are one factor. Source does, when done well, communicate intent and implementation precisely <i>to other people</i>. If the language has enough semantic information it can communicate some part of the specification as well. Knowing what to write and ensuring your software does what you think it does is an important part of a project. It takes working with people to build the correct understanding of the specification and requirements.<p>But to a degree it is also about the code. Sometimes your requirements are: be fast enough. In which case you need to think about code: instructions and data.
  • WCSTombs29 minutes ago
    When you&#x27;re first starting out as a junior software developer, normally you do focus on just the job in front of you, i.e., the code, and the seniors have to deal with everything else. As you mature into your role, you gradually increase the scope of your work and start to take bigger and bigger views of the problem, which involves more communication and more people. That&#x27;s just the natural progression of a software development career, not some big bombshell secret.
  • JSR_FDED1 hour ago
    When I was a developer I thought “without me all the people in the building have nothing to sell and they can all just go home”.<p>Then I spent a few years in sales (long story) and flipped 180 degrees. Without salespeople (and the customers they bring in) there would be nobody paying our salaries and we all could just go home.
    • CodeMage1 hour ago
      You should have stopped at 90 degrees ;)<p>Without salespeople you can&#x27;t <i>sell</i> software. Without developers, you can&#x27;t <i>make</i> software. Since we all have to pay bills, selling software is of crucial importance, but that doesn&#x27;t make the developers less important. It just means that the society we live in makes those who sell as important as those who make. Just like we strive to evolve software development, we should also strive to evolve the society.<p>I&#x27;ve made software that people happily used without anyone selling it to them or me earning a single cent off of it. At my age, if I had the luxury of not having to worry about money, that&#x27;s the kind of thing I would be doing all the time.
      • inigyou36 minutes ago
        Sales is part of the capitalism layer that sits atop the actual work. Same as CEOs.
    • arcwhite1 hour ago
      Two things can be true simultaneously. Neither function works without the other.
      • chambored1 hour ago
        The conjoined triangles of success.
    • janandonly24 minutes ago
      And without the farmers pulling the potatoes out of the ground, we would all starve and die. So who is <i>necessary</i>, really?
    • wonger_35 minutes ago
      Anywhere we can read some of your story? I&#x27;m always curious about devs that went into sales, or sales from a dev perspective
  • lenerdenator3 minutes ago
    It&#x27;s really about neither.<p>It&#x27;s about whether your code earns someone money.
  • livingsoft1 hour ago
    Close, but no. Software is about the <i>mind</i>, and its ability to shape (and be shaped by) its environment. Software was about &quot;people&quot; back when we had to pool our keystrokes together just to keep simple websites running - now we have the technical means to face the true nature of the problem, which is political: just like people have autonomy over their bodies, they deserve autonomy over their software, without having to rely on a corrupt and incompetent industry, addicted to ruining their own products for profit.
    • CodeMage46 minutes ago
      &gt; just like people have autonomy over their bodies, they deserve autonomy over their software, without having to rely on a corrupt and incompetent industry<p>The technical means you mention won&#x27;t give you that. The same people that make the industry &quot;corrupt and incompetent&quot; are leveraging those technical means to make it even more corrupt and less competent. Meanwhile, the rest of us who work in that industry are rapidly losing power to push back.<p>You can&#x27;t rely solely on technology to solve problems rooted in human nature. I mean, we have better technology than at any point in human history, and somehow we&#x27;re <i>regressing</i> on the issue of bodily autonomy.<p>This is why I&#x27;m so frustrated with people who are fanatical about AI adoption. It&#x27;s not a panacea, it won&#x27;t usher in some shiny utopia, it&#x27;s just another technology that can be used both to improve lives and to oppress. If you take a careful look at our society, you can see which of those two uses is currently dominant.
  • throwaway2744845 minutes ago
    Software can be modeled as a social relation. Unless you&#x27;re manufacturing your own chips from scratch, that is. Charging people for software never sat right with me.
  • negativi41 minutes ago
    Great article, I will have more meetings and care less about the code quality. I am sure everything will work out fine.
    • rambojohnson29 minutes ago
      The compiler doesn&#x27;t care whether your code is elegant. Your coworkers do. That&#x27;s literally why code quality exists.
  • ChrisArchitect1 hour ago
    (2020)<p>Some previous comments:<p>2024 <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=41566097">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=41566097</a>
  • 381271 hour ago
    Why does the <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fusionauth.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fusionauth.io&#x2F;</a> website suck then?<p>Enough of these code is worthless propaganda articles.
    • bramadityaw1 hour ago
      they are not saying code is worthless. they are saying that code which serves nobody is worthless. if you think that website sucks, it probably means that whoever is behind it don&#x27;t know (or care) that a user like you exist, which is a pity.
  • luckydata1 hour ago
    a truism but also not that interesting. why is this getting upvoted?
  • begueradj1 hour ago
    Every product is about people.
    • pixl971 hour ago
      For now. Will that remain true?
    • inigyou1 hour ago
      Every product is about <i>investors</i>.
      • wombat-man1 hour ago
        Investors are people
      • gumby1 hour ago
        Not really, even with a venture backed company. The investors only care if they believe there will be paying customers, and at the end of the day those are people.<p>In many cases the customer and user are not the same (e.g. healthcare, Microsoft’s business, Google, et al)
        • inigyou1 hour ago
          Exactly, so the most important thing is convincing investors there will be paying customers.<p>Not having paying customers.
  • gaigalas1 hour ago
    How to make a people problem worse:<p>- Umbrellas are about people, not rain.<p>- But your umbrella will keep me dry, right?<p>- The materials, the shape, none of it is really important.<p>- I&#x27;m not sure what you mean. Give me some hard numbers. How much rainfall the fabric can take? Was it built with quality?<p>- At the end of the day, an umbrella is just a tool.
  • kristianc1 hour ago
    “Eventually I realised restaurants are about diners, not knives.”
    • timfsu1 hour ago
      More accurate to say restaurants are about people, not food. May be an apt analogy - chefs and cooks spend their time in the kitchen preparing food for a diner they don’t see.
  • altmanaltman1 hour ago
    Very weird title since it implies software is <i>not</i> about code which makes 0 sense. Yes, people skills are part of every profession but software jobs still hire based on how good your coding is primarily.
    • mjr001 hour ago
      &gt; software jobs still hire based on how good your coding is primarily<p>ehhh. In my experience, being able to code is a <i>necessary</i> but not <i>sufficient</i> skill for a software developer. The only exceptions I&#x27;ve seen is having some extremely deep expertise in a niche technical field (and even then I wouldn&#x27;t call that being able to code well, so much as technical domain knowledge).<p>When I was hiring at AWS the view for my team (RDS) was that there wasn&#x27;t much difference in expectations between algorithmic coding ability for juniors and seniors. The primary technical differentiator for seniors was architectural and operational. But even more important than those was the nontechnical stuff; mentorship, being able to communicate ideas clearly and succinctly (no point in being able to architect a system if you can&#x27;t communicate it in a way people understand), interacting with other teams, demonstrating understanding customer and business value, etc.
      • altmanaltman1 hour ago
        Okay sure but would you say software is not about code? Yes of course people skills matter I get it but the baseline is still code, no? Isn&#x27;t it then weird to say software is not about it but rather people?
    • inigyou1 hour ago
      Don&#x27;t they now hire based on AI token use?