24 comments

  • 13rac116 hours ago
    Interesting project! A long term vision for MacOS applications is feasible given the success of WINE&#x2F;Proton with Windows applications.<p>Are you familiar with the Darling project? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;darlinghq&#x2F;darling" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;darlinghq&#x2F;darling</a> There&#x27;s an open PR for ARM64 support <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;darlinghq&#x2F;darling&#x2F;pull&#x2F;1753" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;darlinghq&#x2F;darling&#x2F;pull&#x2F;1753</a> Could you combine efforts or do your goals differ too much?
    • iSnow15 hours ago
      In their &quot;License&quot; section on Github, they write &quot;This project is not derived from Darling.&quot; - so they clearly are familiar with it.
    • account421 hour ago
      I wonder if this project will have any more momentum than Darling or if the set mac=only programs that people want to run on Linux is just too small.
    • ZiiS12 hours ago
      Wine got a lot of support from games, even today productivity apps are often much less supported.
      • mananaysiempre6 hours ago
        Which makes sense, games have a much smaller area of contact with the host platform.<p>This sounds strange given how much modern GPUs can do, but consider that a typical Windows machine ca. 2005 will have Access&#x2F;JET Red, Active Directory&#x2F;JET Blue, possibly MSSQL, definitely MSMQ&#x2F;MTS, ODBC, OLE DB, DAO, ADO, that one SQL interpreter inside Windows Installer, and I’ve only just listed Microsoft’s database-adjacent things. I’m not surprised that press reports about the “MinWin” initiative mentioned as the main difficulty the fact that nobody could figure out if any given component was actually necessary for a Windows install to function, let alone to be compatible with third-party software. (Is anybody other than WordPad using the Word 6.0 parser included among the text converters?..) Now consider that this was, by our standards, a lightweight system on a massively underpowered computer.
      • doctorpangloss8 hours ago
        Yeah.. just give me a thing I double click that starts After Effects and Excel.
  • vlad_kalinkin17 hours ago
    Hi HN, I started developing an experimental project with the goal of running macOS CLI binaries natively on Linux ARM machines. As of now, we have working prototypes for: - 7-Zip: Passes multi-threaded compression tests on an 8k-file tree. Currently ~5.2x slower than native Linux execution, but I already mapped out a clear optimization plan to cut this gap down. - curl: Over 200 commands and options successfully pass our automated Docker test script. - Xcode Tools Git: Basic version control commands (init, add, commit) are up and running, though 100% stability is not yet guaranteed. I would be highly grateful for your constructive criticism, architectural ideas, and feedback! Thank you!
    • StilesCrisis16 hours ago
      I assume you eventually plan to target binaries that don&#x27;t already exist on Linux? Where do you think you&#x27;ll start?
      • vlad_kalinkin15 hours ago
        Well, of course, most of all I would like to achieve full-fledged support for Xcode Tools (including building iOS applications) and the macOS version of Homebrew. But, of course, there is still a lot of work ahead to get to this point. Thank you!
        • ethin8 hours ago
          I would look at osxcross[0] if you haven&#x27;t looked into it already. It can at least do the &quot;build stuff targeting macos&quot; part (well, relatively speaking). Swift support kinda breaks down, unfortunately, and actually getting it set up is a bit of a hassle. but it does work.<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;tpoechtrager&#x2F;osxcross" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;tpoechtrager&#x2F;osxcross</a>
          • account421 hour ago
            Would be nice to have a &quot;sanity check the resulting binary&quot; tool though like you can use Wine for Windows builds.
        • iwontberude15 hours ago
          And it’s an endlessly moving target, look at how many apps break every major release (and use it to justify regular, expensive paid upgrades)
          • vlad_kalinkin15 hours ago
            That&#x27;s true. But if we can achieve support for the current stable version, it will be much easier to add new features later or rework the ones that were replaced (unless Apple changes everything on purpose :)
            • frumplestlatz11 hours ago
              Historically, I’d say that the chances of this being successful are exceptionally low given how large the ABI surface is — and it will wildly change out from underneath you on a near yearly cadence.<p>Perhaps LLMs change that calculation. I really couldn’t say.
              • RossBencina5 hours ago
                I&#x27;m curious: how large is it really? As I understand it, Kakehashi is targeting command line programs, especially Xcode-tools. How much non-POSIX&#x2F;Mach&#x2F;BSD interface do Mac command line programs use? How much of that is not already open source. How much of that changes yearly? The only thing that comes to mind is process security for codesign and notarization but I&#x27;m just guessing.
              • dmix5 hours ago
                Even React Native tools used by tons of companies struggle to keep up with Xcode build tool changes on mac itself.
    • imoverclocked11 hours ago
      Do you plan on supporting different target versions and implementing similar restrictions to those targets?<p>eg: older macOS had a writable &#x2F;usr&#x2F; while newer does not without manual effort.<p>Also, do you plan on having similar cli tools available with similar features ported (maybe from the available Darwin sources?)<p>eg: can I run a &#x2F;bin&#x2F;bash script that expects a macOS environment? Will it get &quot;Darwin&quot; from &quot;uname -o&quot;
  • alexboehm2 hours ago
    Interesting, I&#x27;ve been building the inverse of this project, to enable running Linux binaries on macOS, as that&#x27;s not something I&#x27;ve seen in an active project. It works an a very similar way but it&#x27;s in Zig.<p>I&#x27;ll post it soon!
    • vlad_kalinkin2 hours ago
      Wow! Best of luck with your project. It&#x27;s truly amazing how our ideas mirrored each other perfectly :)
  • idieifkiwdu8 hours ago
    Really cool project, but honest question though: why do people tend to name these projects so horribly? I know software engineers aren’t actually known for their creative acuity when it comes to naming, but damn, Kakehashi is just bad.
    • vlad_kalinkin4 hours ago
      Haha, thanks for the comment!<p>My previous project had a more traditional name: WIE (Wie is Emulator), which was an attempt to run PE64 binaries on macOS via Cranelift JIT. It was an ironic joke nod to WINE (and it still survives in the GitHub organization name).<p>For this one, I wanted something more conceptual. Kakehashi (掛け橋) means &quot;bridge&quot; or &quot;go-between&quot; in Japanese. Plus, I just really liked how it sounds and harmonizes with Asahi Linux.
      • account421 hour ago
        WIE is also bad because the W in Wine is for Windows.<p>Should have gone with MIE for both the Wine worldplay and weebery (well close enough anyway).
    • harrouet2 hours ago
      Kakehashi is perfectly fine for the 2&#x2F;3 of humanity that live in Asia.<p>Open up your mind and learn other cultures.
      • account421 hour ago
        &quot;All Asians speak Japanese&quot; certainly is a take.
    • misnome8 hours ago
      Do names have to be English?
  • Arshad-Talpur15 hours ago
    This is something i have been looking for long time, however i have gone through repository and docs and the problem is bigger and solution still seems to be early, I am curious how you gonna take further, will be watching it
  • derefr14 hours ago
    If you didn&#x27;t care about having a fully-redistributable image, but were okay with doing things more like modern old-console-game decompilation projects do (where compiling the project requires the original game ROM as an input), would a project like this be more trivial?<p>I.e. how hard would it be, comparatively, to design a virtualization <i>framework</i> that doesn&#x27;t actually ship with any ground-up-rewritten <i>libraries</i>, but instead just expects to execute the binary in question in the context of a full rootfs copied over from a &quot;real&quot; macOS install?
    • fl0id12 hours ago
      with games, afaik that is mostly necessary for assets. For an OS, this would basically like a VM and is slower&#x2F;more overhead.
  • kazinator2 hours ago
    A future optimized release can be code-named Kakeashi. :)
  • leothetechguy16 hours ago
    this is something I&#x27;ve been waiting for a long time. I will be watching this with great interest.<p>If this ever gets far enough I would love to see something similar to yabridge implemented on top of this and be able to run AU binaries on linux.
    • petesergeant3 hours ago
      What&#x27;s your use-case? Are you hoping for eventual GUI before it becomes useful, or there&#x27;s value for you in the CLI?
  • fareesh14 hours ago
    Would be nice to be able to build iOS apps on Linux ARM runners
  • rvz16 hours ago
    How can we tell that this is truly a clean room project and that there is no code from either (Claude or yourself) that is derived from the Darling project?<p>Otherwise great project.
    • vlad_kalinkin15 hours ago
      Thanks for the comment! You guessed it, I did use LLMs during development. While the strict definition of a &quot;clean room&quot; design can be debatable when AI is involved, I&#x27;d consider this a &quot;light-gray room&quot; approach. There is no direct code plagiarism here: Kakehashi is written from scratch in Rust, whereas Darling is built on C&#x2F;objc. Furthermore, the architecture is fundamentally different—Darling relies on kernel-level emulation, while Kakehashi is purely focused on a lightweight userspace approach for Linux ARM. In my prompts, I explicitly restricted the use of proprietary components. Ultimately, the codebase speaks for itself, and I welcome everyone to audit the repository! Thanks again!
      • 13rac114 hours ago
        FWIW Darling runs in userspace too.<p>What do you mean by &quot;proprietary components&quot;?
        • vlad_kalinkin14 hours ago
          Thanks! What I meant is that Kakehashi doesn&#x27;t require a custom Linux kernel module (LKM). Kakehashi operates completely without root privileges or kernel-level modifications.<p>By &quot;proprietary components,&quot; I meant that in my prompts, I explicitly forbade the copying or direct implementation of private Apple code. Of course, since LLMs are a bit of a black box, it&#x27;s hard to be 100% certain about everything it synthesized under the hood, but the clear intent was to stick to public ABI definitions and standard open specs.
          • saurik11 hours ago
            Darling stopped using the kernel module a year ago.
    • billyjobob15 hours ago
      Darling is written in a different language so I don&#x27;t think the LLM would copy paste code from it directly. But it is the main (only?) prior art, so it could be argued that everything the LLM knows about how to do this came because it read and understood Darling, i.e. if Darling didn&#x27;t exist it may still be able to do this but it would have to figure it out from first principles.<p>Not saying it happened here, but it&#x27;s an interesting thought experiment: what if you order an LLm to achieve the same goal as a popular open source project, using all the lessons learned and pitfalls faced by that project, but not to copy the code. Indeed, LLM code is now often better than human code, so direct code copying would be a disadvantage. Humans are certainly inspired by other projects like this all the time and it isn&#x27;t considered plagiarism.
      • rvz15 hours ago
        &gt; Darling is written in a different language so I don&#x27;t think the LLM would copy paste code from it directly.<p>Just because it is written in a different language does not mean that it is a clean room implementation. The logic from Darling might as well have been lifted and then rewritten by a human or an LLM agent.<p>&gt; Indeed, LLM code is now often better than human code, so direct code copying would be a disadvantage.<p>Is that why coding agents such as Claude Code and Codex have so many bugs in them? This is entirely dependent on the language chosen with the humans behind the decision to review and accept some of the changes.<p>&gt; Humans are certainly inspired by other projects like this all the time and it isn&#x27;t considered plagiarism.<p>Humans (researchers) also <i>appropriately</i> credit the work that inspires them, especially in experiments and research.
        • mathisfun1237 hours ago
          you can copyright a specific implementation but that doesn&#x27;t necessarily grant a patent on the &quot;algorithm&quot;. so unless darling is patented then a translation of the &quot;algorithms&quot; in darling is legal. to wit: that&#x27;s why all the &quot;numerical recipes&quot; books couldn&#x27;t block implementations in other languages.
          • RossBencina5 hours ago
            IANAL and I don&#x27;t think you are either. Be careful making simplistic inferences about a complicated system. Human &quot;translation&quot; is one thing, algorithmic &quot;translation&quot; has seen separate treatment in IP case law.[1] Whether this has relevance to LLM transformation or recall I don&#x27;t know.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Adobe_Systems,_Inc._v._Southern_Software,_Inc" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Adobe_Systems,_Inc._v._Souther...</a>.
            • mathisfun1235 hours ago
              Do you understand what you&#x27;re saying?<p>&gt; Human &quot;translation&quot; is one thing<p>No it&#x27;s not since &quot;human translation&quot; is literally all we had until about a year ago.<p>You should read the case again because it doesn&#x27;t say what you think it says - it says generating a copyrighted work via a new system is still infringement (which is exactly what I&#x27;m arguing isn&#x27;t happening in this case because what&#x27;s being generated is a new language impl).<p>To put it very simply: if I use a machine (biological or electrical) to translate my favorite song into another language that&#x27;s not infringement.
      • nxc1814 hours ago
        &gt; Indeed, LLM code is now often better than human code<p>lol. Find better humans.
        • sterlind14 hours ago
          it depends on your prompting. LLMs can generate beautiful code, or absolute slop.
  • MaxelX15 hours ago
    Quite the interesting work! Although I don&#x27;t use macOS binaries, I can see this is promising.
  • cactusplant737412 hours ago
    I&#x27;m curious, how many agent hours have you spent on this so far?
    • vlad_kalinkin3 hours ago
      Based on the commit history, it took about 6 days of active development.<p>As for the AI assistant, I used Grok 4.5 in Build (Medium, no sub-agents, just standard chats and Plan Mode). I can&#x27;t track the exact hours, but I spent several full days hyper-focused on this. Naturally, I hit the weekly usage limits all the time and had to sit around waiting for the cooldowns (like now :).<p>Thanks for the question!
  • richard_gg7 hours ago
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  • vancekai6 hours ago
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  • Natalia72416 hours ago
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  • hamza715914 hours ago
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  • tempaccountabcd15 hours ago
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  • youareinsuffera15 hours ago
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    • zahlman15 hours ago
      &gt; NEVER ONCE allowed me to post here at all, ever, period.<p>&gt; My first attempt at posting here was in 2021. That account was shadowbanned within hours, for no discernable reason. I was astounded.<p>Have you considered emailing hn@ycombinator.com to figure out the problem?
    • cindyllm15 hours ago
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  • claiir11 hours ago
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    • cromka10 hours ago
      Are there any obvious mistakes? Because the way I see it, AI can and the most models actually do write better READMEs than most people ever cared.
  • youareinsuffera14 hours ago
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  • theproblemisyou16 hours ago
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    • leothetechguy15 hours ago
      I&#x27;m not the guy that&#x27;s banning you.<p>I come here with the expectation that this isn&#x27;t 4chan and I leave my opinions exactly as they are while still being polite. This isn&#x27;t inevitable. Else nobody would use this site. You can be upset about many things like AI and people will share that sentiment or not. You can read the Guidelines, it&#x27;s not hard to see they aren&#x27;t unreasonable. And it&#x27;s easy to see if you violate them.<p>Thanks for the Death Threat.
  • theproblemisyou15 hours ago
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    • leothetechguy15 hours ago
      Fine. Wishing I burned in a Fire isn&#x27;t technically a Death Threat. Congratulations.<p>I have no incentive to be nice either, but I am because I want to. And If you are nice while constructively formulating your anger you don&#x27;t get banned. easy.<p>sounds like you are just being an asshole because you hate the general consensus on this site, and can&#x27;t be bothered to be polite in favor of creating new accounts all the time. That makes you the asshole from my perspective.<p>Have a great Day.
  • yourewrongsorry16 hours ago
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    • leothetechguy16 hours ago
      rust is a tool like any other, grow up.<p>I personally find it easier to work with than c++ in many cases.<p>EDIT: On second look... you okay dude? That&#x27;s an awful lot of anger and swearing for an account created 11 minutes ago. Please calm down for your own sake or do something different at least
      • meindnoch16 hours ago
        How did he predict your comment?
        • leothetechguy15 hours ago
          I didn&#x27;t, I just went to his profile and checked the comments since I had a feeling he wasn&#x27;t being rational. And I saw a lot of very angry comments made before this one.
  • eddysin10 hours ago
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