6 comments

  • lantry1 hour ago
    Title makes it sound like a new method of generating energy was discovered, but really the article is about using geothermal in a new location.<p>&gt; The development of medium-deep (&gt;400 m) and deep geothermal reservoirs (&gt; 1,500 m) could be a partial solution to provide renewable heat to single buildings, residential or commercial neighbourhoods, or districts of the city of Aachen via the existing district heating network.
    • froh421 hour ago
      Ta-daa. That happens. They found some new geothermal source in Munich as well after I moved into the place I&#x27;m in now. It turned out it was very viable.<p>Nowadays the heat in my apartment is mainly geothermal (The district heating network in my neighborhood has been converted to geothermal energy over the past 10 years.)
  • IceHegel41 minutes ago
    I have always wondered about the origins of the anti nuclear opinion of Germans.<p>It has Cold War origins to be sure, but what kind?<p>I suspect American intelligence has been supporting the anti nuclear movement for some time, for non-proliferation reasons - and not just in Germany. I certainly would be, if I ran the State Department.
    • jcfrei14 minutes ago
      Some good answers below already. I think the anti nuclear movement already started before Chernobyl. I believe it was one of the founding ideologies of the green parties (the danger of high CO2 emissions was not yet front of mind for a lot of people back then). So the opposition to nuclear energy kind of laid the foundation for the modern (European) green parties. But these were all young people back then (in the 70s) and a they have now become the dominant generation in politics. So just like in any other country the 50+ years old are in charge and that cohort in Germany happens to have fond memories of opposing nuclear energy.<p>And just a little side note because I&#x27;ve looked it up recently: EU produces about the same amount of nuclear energy as the US - and that&#x27;s despite Germany shutting down all reactors. So it&#x27;s not like the US or any other region has a much higher usage.
    • FinnKuhn9 minutes ago
      Nowadays it is mostly two things.<p>The 1st reason is waste. Germany is more densely populated than the US so you can&#x27;t store it far away from humans. The solution tried before was to just store it deep underground. Turns out that might even be worse than storing it on the surface as it turned out and it has been a total disaster (see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Asse_II_mine" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Asse_II_mine</a>). There have been more cancer cases in this region compared to neighboring regions as well, which might be linked to it. It is now planed to retrieve the waste again and store it somewhere else. Where is currently not known afaik. The whole thing costs billions of Euros already and is going to cost even more and didn&#x27;t even deliver on it&#x27;s promises. So for that reason alone wanting to produce more nuclear waste when we can&#x27;t even deal with what we already have is obviously unpopular.<p>The 2nd reason is cost. As shown above the storage of nuclear waste has been an expensive fail for Germany, but it doesn&#x27;t end there. We don&#x27;t have any nuclear reactors left, so we would need to either reactive existing ones (expensive as they haven&#x27;t been maintained for continuance operations) or to build a new one. How well that works we can see in either Finland or the UK... both have huge cost overruns and aren&#x27;t even on-time. I think we had enough of those projects (BER, Stuttgart21) that another one that would likely end up like this is nothing anyone wants. Building more renewables such as solar and wind together with energy storage and gas&#x2F;hydrogen power plants as backup is just a lot cheaper as we don&#x27;t need more base load power plants, but ones that are a lot more flexible and can be turned on&#x2F;off quickly depending on solar&#x2F;wind output. And any new gas power plant is planned to also work with hydrogen, which can be produced when we have too much solar&#x2F;wind and then act as the storage medium. So basically a long term way to store energy that is more flexible than batteries (at least on this time and size scale).<p>In the past reasons were different, but those aren&#x27;t really relevant now.<p>Another relevant note here is that Germany is heavily investing in nuclear fusion, which is probably a better use of funds. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dw.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;nuclear-fusion-germany-bets-billions-on-technology-for-energy-future&#x2F;a-74522109" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dw.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;nuclear-fusion-germany-bets-billions-o...</a>
    • toenail35 minutes ago
      It&#x27;s mostly fear after Chernobyl, fueled by environmental groups and the Green party primarily.
    • sajithdilshan28 minutes ago
      Once I had a discussion with a German that is a strong supporter of the green party and his argument against nuclear power was the nuclear waste and no proper was of disposing it and also building new nuclear power plants are expensive and take a long time.<p>Then I did a deep research and created a PDF and pointed out that there has been many advances of re-using spent-nuclear fuel and minimize the environmental impact since 1980s and also countries like China has been using a cleaver way of using a standardized model of building power plants to cut cost, etc. but he didn&#x27;t want to accept it as if he was almost brainwashed.
      • notTooFarGone23 minutes ago
        So we just have to build the first expensive 20 to get the experience and then we reap the rewards after 40 years when we need the knowledge again?<p>If nuclear would be cheap in the western world I&#x27;d be all for it but we just can&#x27;t do large projects in our ccurrent system.<p>Solar + wind + battery is much less of an headache.
        • sajithdilshan7 minutes ago
          &gt; So we just have to build the first expensive 20 to get the experience and then we reap the rewards after 40 years when we need the knowledge again?<p>I think the knowledge doesn&#x27;t has to start from zero. Germany can ask for foreign aid from China.<p>&gt; If nuclear would be cheap in the western world I&#x27;d be all for it but we just can&#x27;t do large projects in our ccurrent system.<p>I agree, given the fact that it took 15 years to build the BER airport and Stuttgart 21 is still on-going, i can totally imaging building a single new nuclear power plant in Germany would take 50 years minimum.<p>&gt; Solar + wind + battery is much less of an headache.<p>I agree, it&#x27;s a less headache, but at the same time you cannot support energy intensive industries like chemical, manufacturing etc. You would have to build battery farms which is not sustainable. That&#x27;s why Germany is slowly on a path for de-industrialization
        • lumost15 minutes ago
          I think most nuclear folks would rather divert the &quot;big coal, and nat gas&quot; plant building budgets to &quot;build nuclear.&quot;<p>I understand the motivations for solar&#x2F;wind, but there are real limiters that aren&#x27;t addressed yet. Nuclear is the only option that is carbon neutral and lacks those limiters making it appealing. If I need steady state gigawatt scale power in a specific location, Nuclear is the only green option.
        • stkdump8 minutes ago
          [dead]
    • karmakurtisaani27 minutes ago
      I&#x27;m sure Russians had something to do with it too. Makes sure Germany will not develop nukes and they&#x27;ll keep buying oil and gas.
    • toasty22823 minutes ago
      Just follow the gas pipelines...
      • Bigpet12 minutes ago
        That&#x27;s part of it, but if you lived through months of news about where milk is unsafe and how to wash your vegetables and how much iodine to take. You&#x27;d maybe think differently too.<p>All the &quot;oh, but it&#x27;s different now, it&#x27;s really safe&quot; implies that the scientist at the time of the Chernobyl disaster didn&#x27;t give assurance that it&#x27;s totally safe either.<p>I am in favor of nuclear power and think that closing the plants was a huge mistake, but it&#x27;s not somehow fully irrational to opose nuclear power. Not everyone has the hubris of thinking they can evaluate the risks when being shown some data. Nor can they distinguish the difference between &quot;the experts then said it&#x27;s safe&quot; and &quot;the experts now say it&#x27;s safe&quot;.
        • toasty2289 minutes ago
          Sure, but meanwhile they&#x27;ve been using your lungs as a particulate filter for coal byproducts for decades, and these things will fuck you up even in the best case scenario.<p>Coal plants also produce radioactive material btw: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scientificamerican.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scientificamerican.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;coal-ash-is-more-...</a>
  • markkitti1 hour ago
    They found some potential geothermal wells near where they were previously mining.
    • causal1 hour ago
      Yeah title is way off lol
  • josefritzishere10 minutes ago
    Geothermal is great, but it&#x27;s not new. Is this just a misleading headline?
  • yanko1 hour ago
    Opening survival north stream single pipe for Russian gas is no brain solution. Europe break records importing relabeled Russian gas last month anyway
    • atwrk50 minutes ago
      The no brain solution is to electrify everything and switch legacy infrastructure to renewables, just like China does. Gas usage is down in the EU anyway.
      • c0l035 minutes ago
        Long-term, that&#x27;s the smart and also necessary move. But it can&#x27;t be done overnight, and the transition has its significant challenges. I hope they don&#x27;t mess it up it and will address these problems rationally - but given how most EU leaders have acted over these past few years, I remain painfully unconvinced that they will.
        • tapoxi28 minutes ago
          Isn&#x27;t solar the fastest energy source to spin up? Just take them out of the crate, put them on racks, tie them to the grid.
          • c0l021 minutes ago
            I guess it is, but solar can only be part of the answer: You need a solid plan (and all the infrastructure that implementing this plan involves) for when the sun does not shine, because in the more northern parts of Europe especially, energy consumption is highest during seasons in which sunlight is (relatively) scarce.<p>Also, &quot;the grid&quot; cannot absorb any amount of solar energy - so if you choose to address (at least parts) of the above challenge with a photovoltaic build-out that results in <i>massive</i> excess capacity during summer, there needs to be a plan (and again, its implementation) to handle that.
          • toasty22811 minutes ago
            Not to sound like an ass but that&#x27;s your typical HNer hot take on a topic they don&#x27;t know anything about (which is 99% of topics outside of tech).<p>I know that I don&#x27;t know jack shit about the topic, but I can already tell you that if you do what you describe you&#x27;ll quickly learn about why grids have frequencies, what generate these frequencies, and what happens when they drift.
      • Saline951534 minutes ago
        China still uses a massive amount of coal, and has a lot of southern idle land. Germany has been doing what you say for the last 15 years, it didn&#x27;t seem to work out so well.
        • inigyou31 minutes ago
          China&#x27;s really big. Australia is advancing further per capita due to having less capita.
    • maxdo31 minutes ago
      No brain because there is lack of survival instincts in such phrase?<p>Russia openly declares willingness to destroy europe, your lifestyle, way of thinking etc. They claim they are better. Sure , sponsoring this country is no brainer lol.<p>Germany already financed biggest war in europe since WWII by flooding russia with oil money. Is that not enough?<p>Amount of money EU spent to tame the fire of war could easily cover building 20-30 nuclear plants across the europe to solve the heat&#x2F;cooling problem once and forever.
      • sajithdilshan18 minutes ago
        The primordial interest of the United States, over which for centuries we have fought wars the First, Second, and Cold Wars has been the relationship between Germany and Russia, because united, they&#x27;re the only force that could threaten us. And to make sure that that doesn&#x27;t happen. - This is a direct quote by George Friedman. This[1] is a good read to entertain the idea more.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unz.com&#x2F;mwhitney&#x2F;the-crisis-in-ukraine-is-not-about-ukraine-its-about-germany&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unz.com&#x2F;mwhitney&#x2F;the-crisis-in-ukraine-is-not-ab...</a>
    • notrealyme12337 minutes ago
      no brain in the truest sense of it.
  • mtoner231 hour ago
    Hopefully Germany doesn&#x27;t ban geothermal like they did with nuclear and fracking
    • skimmed1 hour ago
      Putting nuclear and fracking on the same level is wild.
      • rob7423 minutes ago
        Why? Nuclear has extremely serious, but very rare accidents, while fracking has less serious (as in, fewer people affected) accidents more frequently. I would say if you even it out, they&#x27;re comparable...
      • Kichererbsen1 hour ago
        Putting nuclear and fracking next to each other is also wild. Geographically.
        • Lev1a3 minutes ago
          [delayed]
        • BSDobelix14 minutes ago
          Haha that&#x27;s a good one, shaky foundation.
    • xeonmc10 minutes ago
      technically speaking, geothermal is in a way also a form of nuclear energy.
    • xutopia55 minutes ago
      Please refrain from putting these 2 in the same bucket. Fracking does lots of localized and non-local pollution. Nuclear is contained and way safer for humans.
      • Hackbraten5 minutes ago
        &gt; Nuclear is contained<p>Except when it de-contains itself.
    • dyauspitr1 hour ago
      Fracking is not like nuclear
      • nkmnz1 hour ago
        But they were cancelled for similar reasons based on fears fueled by Russian propaganda.
        • maxhille47 minutes ago
          So the Fukushima disaster and US polluted ground water are Russian propaganda for you?
          • Saline951532 minutes ago
            Cumulative radioactivity emitted by German coal as a result of the ban on nuclear is likely higher than the amount of radioactivity spread by the Fukushima disaster. We can also add lung issues and other pollution of the environment caused by soot.
          • toasty22818 minutes ago
            &gt; the Fukushima disaster<p>Germany doesn&#x27;t experience magnitude 7+ earthquakes on the regular... or at all for that matter. It 100% is manufactured fears
          • archonis31 minutes ago
            The inherrent dangers of nuclear energy stem from flawed actors admimistrating something which carries manageable and often avoidable risks.<p>Fracking as a process carries inherrent unavoidable risk.
        • Gualdrapo57 minutes ago
          That still doesn&#x27;t make them comparable