15 comments

  • vanyaland2 hours ago
    Worth clicking into .claude/agents/ in this repo. There are 25 agent definitions, 10 of them code-review dimensions.
    • iterateoften1 hour ago
      When you see 25 agent definitions, how do you know they are good? How do you know it’s better than 10 or 5 or 1? Is a project with 100 agent definitions better?
  • rob745 hours ago
    I wasn't surprised that it's written in a JVM language, but I was surprised that that language is Java, not JetBrains' very own Kotlin...
    • atraac5 hours ago
      Youtrack was made long before Kotlin so I suspect the rewrite just wasn't worth it
      • rob745 hours ago
        TIL - YouTrack was first released in 2009, Kotlin in 2011, so I wouldn't call it long before, but definitely before. Guess I'm more interested in programming languages than in task management tools, that's probably why I have been aware of Kotlin longer than of YouTrack...
        • arkadiytehgraet4 minutes ago
          Kotlin 1.0 was released early 2016. I can see why YouTrack team might not have wanted to commit using an unstable language, though I can also see the dogfooding angle.
      • Cthulhu_5 hours ago
        Thing is, iirc Kotlin is mostly compatiable / interchangeable with Java so they could write any new code in Kotlin.
    • mike_hearn5 hours ago
      You can port files from Java to Kotlin by pressing a button, but Jetbrains has generally not done bulk ports. They leave it up to individual devs to convert a file when it's being worked on, if the diff and VCS history pollution is worth it.
  • brobdingnagians5 hours ago
    I've always been curious about graph DBs and dabbled a bit in them, but for those who have more extensive experience in them-- are they really worth it? Is it that for small scale SQL is better and graph DBs really only matter at scale, or for specific use cases with highly connected data?
    • shaism4 hours ago
      I worked in a startup whose value proposition was largely derived from using graph data and graph databases under the hood. The main benefit is, as the repo even states &quot;Fast data processing: Links traversal is processed with O(1) complexity.&quot;<p>So, technically, you can do deep traversals quicker. A few notes:<p>1. Few use cases truly need low-latency deep traversal on realtime data (&gt;5 hops). There are some well known ones like fraud detection in payment processing and, possibly, social media recommendation engines. But I am not even sure how latest social media engines work, and whether they still rely on graph DBs.<p>2. However, in practice the advantage is often marginal. With modern analytical databases, or even an optimized PostgreSQL (ltree, materialized views, pgrouting, pg_duckdb, etc), you often get more than good enough performance. In addition those traditional SQL DBs scale with hardware more easily than graph databases. So, you can always use the lever: &quot;Throw more hardware at it.&quot;<p>3. Even Graph DBs don&#x27;t get good traversal performance under all conditions without hand tuning. For example, there is the &quot;super node&quot; issue, a node with an abnormally high number of connections (edges). And if you still need hand-tuning, you might as well choose something more versatile.<p>4. The ecosystem of a PostgreSQL and other popular DBs is just unbeaten. With graph DBs, you often prematurely put yourself in a corner that you don&#x27;t want to be in.<p>Hence, my recommendation. Unless you are really sure that a graph DB is the right fit for your use case, start with something else, and go the graph db way when you have established a true need.
    • codelikeawolf1 hour ago
      I&#x27;m a bit of a Forensic Files nerd, so I worked on a little side project a while back to pull the transcripts from several episodes, use entity recognition to categorize people, places, things, etc, and load them into a Neo4j database (via Cypher queries). It turns out there&#x27;s something called the POLE data model[1] that can be used by law enforcement to help solve crimes. You load all the details into a graph database and evaluate the relationships to aid in solving crimes. I suppose you could argue a criminal investigation is essentially graph traversal.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;neo4j.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;government&#x2F;graph-technology-pole-position-law-enforcement&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;neo4j.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;government&#x2F;graph-technology-pole-posi...</a><p>Edit: typo
    • ChicagoDave5 hours ago
      I played around with Neo4j and only ever found two domains where it excelled.<p>- custom app security<p>- social media<p>I also think cypher is a brilliant way to query a graph.
    • snapetom4 hours ago
      I worked for the research branch of a children&#x27;s hospital. At one point, I was brought into vendor evaluations a department wanted to buy. Their tool had something to do with visualizing protein interactions, which was highly networked. It was basically a Neo4j database with a React UI on top of it.
  • supriyo-biswas7 hours ago
    I wonder if there&#x27;s a design decision documented somewhere that makes the existing graph databases like Neo4j, etc. not good enough for Youtrack&#x27;s use case.
    • pandoro7 hours ago
      Neo4j is a great DB but their license price is egregious for enterprise customers. A few years ago I was involved in negotiating a contract for a small&#x2F;medium size kubernetes deployment (think around 25 cores) and the annual price was more than the salary of a senior SWE full-time equivalent. See this page for an idea of their prices in 2018: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.igovsol.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;01&#x2F;10&#x2F;Neo4j-Commercial-Prices.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.igovsol.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;01&#x2F;10&#x2F;Neo4j-Commercial-Prices....</a>
      • brabel7 hours ago
        Also embedding Neo4j is not possible, that seems to be the killer feature for YouTrackDB, they even shade dependencies so it’s like a no deps Java library for your application.
      • danpalmer7 hours ago
        &gt; small&#x2F;medium size kubernetes deployment (think around 25 cores<p>That&#x27;s ~1 machine. 1 SWE for a database isn&#x27;t egregious, databases provide huge value, but for that little performance, that&#x27;s crazy.<p>I can only assume as core count has blown up over the last 10 years, the pricing has somewhat diminished, but still, I&#x27;d be expecting a heck of a lot more capacity for 1 SWE.
      • fsuts6 hours ago
        Not just that, if a database company has both a community edition and enterprise then it’s likely the enterprise will get many new features that the community edition will never get.<p>Ongoing enshittification risk.
    • denismi6 hours ago
      Didn&#x27;t Neo4J pivot away from being a boring embedded DB which you point at a path and then traverse through Node objects, and decide to become some kind of paid platform with a client-server protocol and proprietary query DSL?<p>I remembered it from a uni course (early 10s?) a few years ago for a use-case we didn&#x27;t end up pursuing, but I wasn&#x27;t hugely comfortable with investing effort into what I saw.
    • zihotki7 hours ago
      That&#x27;s a good question indeed. Also I wonder why they picked java as the implementation language.
      • rednb7 hours ago
        Likely because they are a Java shop. All the IDEs they develop use Java, so they have quite an expertise in low level optimization for this language.
        • rob745 hours ago
          That&#x27;s true, although, if you look at them, you wouldn&#x27;t notice. The only mention of JVM you can see in the IDEs is in the About dialog, and the IDEs install and run their own OpenJDK, so no JVM has to be installed globally. Almost as if they were a bit self-conscious about using such an &quot;unsexy&quot; architecture...
          • mike_hearn5 hours ago
            Bundling a JDK with the app is the officially sanctioned way to ship Java apps since Java 9, so for over a decade now.
            • Hendrikto3 hours ago
              The JDK is too big for every app to do that, imo.
              • pjmlp3 hours ago
                Which is why there are linking and packaging tools for trimming fat that isn&#x27;t needed, or even AOT compile the application.
            • well_ackshually3 hours ago
              You mean a JRE, because the whole JDK contains a bunch of things you&#x27;re never going to need.<p>Mind you, a default JRE redistribution makes your app at least 100+MB. Using jdeps to strip out unneeded things is a good idea if you want it to get down to 25 ish MBs.
        • jonathanlydall7 hours ago
          They also have C# expertise, but yes, Java is probably the language they have the most expertise in.
      • fsuts6 hours ago
        Date of commits shows this project is 3 years old.<p>It’s JetBrains who were synonymous with Java so not a surprise, if was a recent project would have been Kotlin (which this company created)
        • winrid5 hours ago
          Probably worth saying it&#x27;s a fork of orientdb from like 2010.
      • ChrisRR3 hours ago
        Because Youtrack itself is written in java
  • rickette4 hours ago
    This is the successor of <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;JetBrains&#x2F;xodus" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;JetBrains&#x2F;xodus</a>, but with quite some differences.
  • dzonga2 hours ago
    There&#x27;s also falkorDb (based on redis) to consider<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;falkordb&#x2F;falkordb" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;falkordb&#x2F;falkordb</a>
  • l337h4x0rz4 hours ago
    I played around with something similar before called typedb. It also does object oriented graph model which was a bit weird at first after using sql for a long time, but once it clicks there&#x27;s a lot of thing that you could express surprisingly nicely
  • ajhenrydev7 hours ago
    Do they have a doc that says what scale this can operate at?
    • winrid5 hours ago
      It&#x27;s embedded. Single machine. But it runs their forum&#x2F;ticketing thing so good enough for that I guess :)
  • marcodena3 hours ago
    is it distributed? It would be awesome to use it with graph neural network due to the O(1) graph traversal
  • ggcr6 hours ago
    It&#x27;s a fork of OrientDB, isn&#x27;t it?
    • jacolbj6 hours ago
      A successor to it, yes: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@youtrackdb&#x2F;long-road-ahead-6d648141a190" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@youtrackdb&#x2F;long-road-ahead-6d648141a190</a>
  • znpy5 hours ago
    Object databases routinely go away and routinely come back.<p>Ten years ago I worked with a database called Versant OODBMS (from Actian). I was a junior sysadmin so i was essentially administering it at a very surface level but skimming the documentation (and trying some of the samples) it was very cool that you could pick essentially any random class, implement an interface (and hence a few method) and that was it, you had a database-serializable object.<p>The main issue was really scaling out (as in, multiple machines) but otherwise was a really great database.
    • kjs31 hour ago
      That&#x27;s funny, one of my buddies from college was one of the OG Versant employees (I assume there&#x27;s not another OODBMS named Versant). That was in the late 80s.
    • pjmlp3 hours ago
      Yes, POET for C++, for example.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kevra.org&#x2F;TheBestOfNext&#x2F;ThirdPartyProducts&#x2F;ThirdPartySoftware&#x2F;DataCapture-Storage-Reports&#x2F;page92&#x2F;POET&#x2F;POET.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kevra.org&#x2F;TheBestOfNext&#x2F;ThirdPartyProducts&#x2F;ThirdP...</a>
  • gjvc2 hours ago
    summary<p>* AFAICT, this is not (yet) in active use in production YouTrack, which is still using <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;JetBrains&#x2F;xodus" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;JetBrains&#x2F;xodus</a><p>* the technical leader of the YouTrackDB project, Andrii Lomakin, was one of the main contributors to OrientDB -- see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@youtrackdb" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@youtrackdb</a><p>* YouTrackDB is a fork of OrientDB<p>* this project makes heavy use of Claude Code<p>* YouTrackDB does not use Kotlin<p>* this can be used as a network service (rather than just embedded in a single runtime process like in current production YouTrack), but I&#x27;ve not yet got the docker images working to try.<p>from the blurb<p>YouTrackDB is a general-purpose object-oriented graph database developed by JetBrains, used internally in production. It implements the Apache TinkerPop API with Gremlin query language support and features O(1) link traversal, schema-less&#x2F;mixed&#x2F;full modes, and encryption at rest. The project is a fork of OrientDB, re-architected under the com.jetbrains.youtrackdb package namespace.
  • gjvc6 hours ago
    see also <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtrackdb.zulipchat.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtrackdb.zulipchat.com&#x2F;</a>
  • saastester5 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • td27 hours ago
    Isnt youtrackdb a odd name, if its intended as a general use db? Why link it that much to a specific known product?
    • root321 minutes ago
      current name is smelling tho +1
    • p_l6 hours ago
      It was split from youtrack internals, IIRC