66 comments

  • digitaltrees9 hours ago
    I have started to see what I think are star link satellites at night on walks with my kids. It actually makes me sad to see that on person owns the night sky and is changing the literal stars my kids will grow up with. It feels different when it’s the government that theoretically represents people but when it’s one person that feels truly depressing.
    • rayiner38 minutes ago
      &gt; It feels different when it’s the government that theoretically represents people but when it’s one person that feels truly depressing.<p>I worked on technology for years that the FCC effectively killed for stupid reasons. So it’s heartening to me that someone can still just do stuff and build things. It’s amazing. If you asked me 10 years ago I would have thought that getting something like Starlink off the ground would’ve been impossible due to red tape.
    • franciscop2 hours ago
      I feel that way about street advertising, beautiful European cities with historical buildings all around and suddenly a big screen&#x2F;panel asking you to buy whatever.
      • goodcanadian46 minutes ago
        I lived for a few years in Hawaii, where they have banned most outdoor advertising. Having seen the difference, I strongly support such initiatives.
      • agys18 minutes ago
        São Paulo: Cidade Limpa<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cidade_Limpa" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cidade_Limpa</a>
      • derrasterpunkt2 hours ago
        That is an interesting take. Now I probably can‘t unsee it.
      • LtWorf2 hours ago
        I had read that some municipalities in switzerland were banning them.<p>Me, I just do what I can and at least trash the ones covering the windows on public transport here.
        • mhb1 hour ago
          It is legal to cover windows with advertising?
          • LtWorf29 minutes ago
            No idea. They put cardboard things, they don&#x27;t entirely cover the window but they are very large and annoying.
    • londons_explore4 hours ago
      There are various satellite finder apps. I suspect you&#x27;ll find starlink satellites are mostly too dim to see - with most of what&#x27;s visible being other older satellites
      • guepe4 hours ago
        You can see them very easily at dusk. It’s dark enough but they are still in sunlight making them very clearly visible. There is always one or more easily visible (by design).
        • londons_explore4 hours ago
          There&#x27;s more like 30 always visible...<p>The 1 I suspect is some other satellite
          • sandworm10120 minutes ago
            Visible in RF. That doesn&#x27;t mean literally visible. They few that are seen are those still in sunlight when the observer is not.
    • Oarch6 hours ago
      I wonder if (this part specifically) is a solvable problem? Is it their altitude that causes them to shine? Perhaps finally a commercial use for Vantablack?
      • ben_w5 hours ago
        Their brightness is a mixture of a lot of things, including the huge PV arrays and the angle they have with the sun when they cross the terminator between night and day.<p>Starlink have already put a lot of effort into their satellites being much less bright than most satellites, including tilting their PV away from earth during the terminator crossing, so from what I&#x27;ve read you&#x27;ll mainly see them while they&#x27;re being deployed and while de-orbiting.<p>(Part of my still-expanding draft blog post about space data centres is to work out how bright a million much larger objects would look. If they were in the orbit with the most sun, that&#x27;s a terminator-following sun-synchronous orbit, which is maximum brightness).
        • leetbulb4 minutes ago
          I watch them come up over the horizon right after sunset. Only a couple specific trajectories are visible and they disappear pretty quick. Later on in to a clear night and after your eyes adjust to the darkness, you can find them all over the sky. They look like very faint stars speeding around. It&#x27;s quite spectacular and hunting them makes for a fun activity with others while relaxing in a hot tub.
        • throwthrowuknow5 hours ago
          Would the “datacenter” satellites be much larger? I thought each of them was only going to carry a rack or a cabinet worth of GPUs?
          • ben_w4 hours ago
            Much larger.<p>The compute part may be a rack or a cabinet worth of GPUs (though TBH the public designs are currently vague to the point of being artistic impressions), but they also need to come with a PV array big enough to power that, plus a cooling array that&#x27;s going to be close to 25% as big as the PV array regardless of what unit size they go for in the end.<p>If they settle on making e.g. 120 kW satellites, that would be about 400 m^2 for the PV and another 100 m^2 for the radiator.
            • smallerfish1 minute ago
              Have you seen Real Engineering&#x27;s analysis? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=_qpdUNMt2yg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=_qpdUNMt2yg</a>
          • largbae28 minutes ago
            Yes but would these need to be in LEO? I would imagine that they would aim for farther orbits to spend a smaller percentage of their time in Earth&#x27;s shadow
      • langtonsuncle47 minutes ago
        Counterintuitively, the best way to make satellites less visible for ground observers is actually to make them MORE reflective. You want the reflection off the nadir side of the vehicle to be as specular (mirror-like) as possible so that the light reflected from the sun only makes it to a single point on the Earth&#x27;s surface.<p>You can see that SpaceX (and probably other LEO operators as well) are already doing this: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=rfJWli7YKPw" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=rfJWli7YKPw</a><p>This video is a good visual illustration of that effect: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=w8I25H3bnNw" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=w8I25H3bnNw</a>
      • teamonkey5 hours ago
        Anything up there needs to reflect as much as possible to avoid building up heat. That which it can’t reflect is absorbed and needs to be emitted as efficiently as possible. Vantablack would likely make it absorb heat readily and glow in the near-IR.
      • saltwatercowboy2 hours ago
        This is a bit like suggesting we slather cars in vaseline to prevent traffic jams.<p>Maybe we could just blast Anish Kapoor into space on a one-man prison vessel instead?
    • tgsovlerkhgsel4 hours ago
      Change is inevitable. I <i>love</i> seeing artificial objects in space, because it shows that we, humanity, are finally getting there.<p>Elon doesn&#x27;t own space, he just happens to be the one who is currently best at making it reachable. There is plenty of space for everyone else, and others will get there, eventually.<p>I could eat myself up with envy over the money he&#x27;s making from it... or be glad that it&#x27;s at least someone getting rewarded for moving humanity forward (while also being an asshole), rather than someone who is starting wars to profit from insider trading...
      • jneaty3 hours ago
        I wonder what you mean by &quot;moving humanity forward&quot;. Just technological advancements without other considerations? In my opinion it should at least require reducing human suffering, and if ao he has done more harm than good
        • RetpolineDrama1 minute ago
          &gt;and if ao he has done more harm than good<p>Unbelievably ignorant take and sadly typical for HN these days.
        • rowanG0772 hours ago
          I agree with this. But imo its pretty clear that cheap and easy access to the internet on the entire globe is a clear win.
          • protimewaster53 minutes ago
            The guy in charge of it has demonstrated that he&#x27;ll cut people off from accessing it on a whim, though, so it&#x27;s not really cheap and easy access for the entire globe. It&#x27;s access for the selected people.
            • inemesitaffia30 minutes ago
              It came on a whim and you didn&#x27;t complain about that.<p>You get what you pay for and the service got paid for ultimately.<p>If it was important enough, it would have been paid for.
              • protimewaster14 minutes ago
                They also have cut off people who paid, though. It&#x27;s currently being paid for and had another cutoff for Ukraine in early February.
                • inemesitaffia0 minutes ago
                  Early February 2026 was at the directive of the local government.<p>Please just stop this thing you&#x27;re doing.
            • rowanG07747 minutes ago
              Doesn&#x27;t that hold for all internet providers? I&#x27;m not familiar with SpaceX cutting people of, but that doesn&#x27;t sound out of line compared to industry.
          • JKCalhoun2 hours ago
            The brief history of the internet suggests to me that this is not a <i>clear win</i>.
      • sevenzero4 hours ago
        Yea but it introduces a lot of issues for space travel and other satellites. The useful space in space we have is extremely limited. A single company shouldn&#x27;t be able to just clutter space at will.
        • BurningFrog4 minutes ago
          There is <i>nothing</i> more abundant than the extra room there is in space!<p>Earth orbit is more constrained, but it&#x27;s very far from full. Geostationary orbits are about 20% full, but the rest is practically empty still.
        • tticvs4 hours ago
          1. That&#x27;s not true. 2. It&#x27;s not &quot;at will&quot; if you actually read the article you&#x27;re commenting under you&#x27;d see it is about them _applying for a license_ to do something.
          • taotau3 hours ago
            Taken literally you are technically correct, but... 1. Space is big, but LEO is not that big and if a single company clutters it enough, other organisations might start bumping into issues like &#x27;if i don&#x27;t get sign off from starlink corp, i might hit one of their satelites on the way up and my insurance wont cover that so I cant afford to launch given the risks of being sued by elon&#x27;. 2. Applying for a licence in this context, mostly means greasing the right palms (preferably the pudgy bruised ones).
            • tticvs3 hours ago
              It introduces no issues for space travel. And what exactly do you want to happen here? LEO to stay empty because no one else is able to fill it and for spacex to not to try to expand because the regulatory process isn&#x27;t perfect according to your standards?
        • inigyou4 hours ago
          The best way to create change is to create the conditions where change is necessary. If Elon causes Kessler syndrome in low earth orbit, it will quickly be illegal to launch satellites without permits.
          • bdangubic3 hours ago
            did you read the article? it is already illegal to launch satellites without permission, hence the article (above the fold in the summary) is stating SpaceX applied for permission :)
        • tgsovlerkhgsel3 hours ago
          Does it really? Every time I heard the &quot;we&#x27;ll run out of space&quot; FUD argument it was followed by a drastic increase of satellites in orbit with no issue...
          • hnhg3 hours ago
            We&#x27;re also facing a climate and pollutant crisis as a species so we seem only capable of thinking in the short term. We&#x27;re not doing that well right now after only a brief period of industrialisation.
            • tticvs3 hours ago
              We&#x27;re doing extremely well compared to an unimaginably long period of pre-industrialization.
              • hnhg2 hours ago
                In the short-term. Thanks for proving my point on perspective.
                • tticvs2 hours ago
                  Yes, so let&#x27;s think long term. How do we keep it rolling? Perhaps we will need to continue to advance our technology, especially moving industries to space where there is no ecosphere.
    • poszlem13 minutes ago
      You can say what you want about Musk (I personally think that he is an appaling human being), but Starlink represents everybody who pays for starlink to get access to the internet, not just Elon.
    • freedomben1 hour ago
      This strikes me as NIMBYism at a global scale. At least you&#x27;ve got yours right!
      • rr80847 minutes ago
        Its more the other way around. Its mostly used by the wealthiest few percent, the majority of the world has to pay for the damage it causes.
    • gus_massa1 hour ago
      It&#x27;s hard to find hard numbers, but IIUC even ignoring Elon&#x27;s Space Program:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.visualcapitalist.com&#x2F;sp&#x2F;gx04-who-owns-the-most-satellites&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.visualcapitalist.com&#x2F;sp&#x2F;gx04-who-owns-the-most-s...</a><p>* Most satellites were private owned, for communications or resource.<p>* Most government owned satellites have military use, the people that is trying to spy or nuke you or your neighbor.<p>* A small part is used for science and altruistic activities.
      • delecti1 hour ago
        More than 2&#x2F;3 of all active satellites are part of the SpaceX&#x2F;Starlink constellation, and it&#x27;s a full 3&#x2F;4 of those in LEO, which are the biggest contributor to the glints we can see in the night sky.<p>They&#x27;re such an enormous part of the problem that it does a disservice to the problem to not metaphorically shine a spotlight on them.<p>I had trouble finding another source that summed up the data so nicely, but other sources did corroborate these figures: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;satfleetlive.com&#x2F;blogs&#x2F;how-many-satellites-in-orbit&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;satfleetlive.com&#x2F;blogs&#x2F;how-many-satellites-in-orbit&#x2F;</a>
    • dietr1ch9 hours ago
      You&#x27;ll be sad to know there&#x27;s another mf trying to put a mirror to reflect sunlight near twilight<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Reflect_Orbital" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Reflect_Orbital</a>
      • throw0101d1 hour ago
        &gt; <i>You&#x27;ll be sad to know there&#x27;s another mf trying to put a mirror to reflect sunlight near twilight</i><p>This has been approved:<p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ca.pcmag.com&#x2F;networking&#x2F;16760&#x2F;fcc-approves-reflect-orbitals-giant-mirror-satellite-that-astronomers-hate" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ca.pcmag.com&#x2F;networking&#x2F;16760&#x2F;fcc-approves-reflect-o...</a><p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=48866452">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=48866452</a>
      • blackhaz6 hours ago
        I think this needs to be addressed with a crowd-funded projectile. This sort of stuff must be done on a planetary-scale consensus basis only.
        • rayiner35 minutes ago
          &gt; planetary-scale consensus basis<p>What a terrifying thought. My dad was in Bangladesh when Americans landed a man on the moon. The man next to him said he couldn’t believe the Americans had punched through the dome of the sky. You want to achieve a consensus with them?
        • theoreticalmal1 hour ago
          What a terrible tyranny of the majority problem that would be. I reject this idea completely
        • tticvs4 hours ago
          [flagged]
      • dietr1ch8 hours ago
        To anyone thinking that 18m² isn&#x27;t that big for how large the space is, please recall how bright reflective things shine during the day when you hit the right angle.
        • zefr0g7 hours ago
          18x18 is 324m^2
          • blooalien5 hours ago
            To give an easy visualization for most people (average Americans, really, because most <i>other</i> people in the world <i>already know</i> what a meter looks like), imagine that the average doorknob is about 1m above the floor, so imagine basically the bottom part of a typical interior door is about 1m sq. Now, make a square out of 18 of those pieces wide by 18 pieces high.
            • NikolaNovak38 minutes ago
              I feel &quot;about a 8 floor building&quot; would be a good ROM :)
            • mzronek4 hours ago
              Americans will measure with anything but the metric system.
              • amelius3 hours ago
                And if they do, they will call it things like &quot;square doorknob&quot;.
              • blooalien3 hours ago
                Except for those few of us who grew up interested in science, because science pretty much world-wide (even in the USA) uses metric for pretty near everything. I&#x27;ve used metric for my entire life, and been ridiculed for it that entire time by all the same morons that think any interest in science makes you a &quot;nerd&quot; even if you also happen to play and enjoy sports (despite almost the entire rest of the world standardizing on metric <i>long</i> ago), and despite the fact that most folks in the USA are already using metric themselves every single day. Yet somehow metric is &quot;too hard to learn, waaah!&quot; (It&#x27;s based on tens, just like our money. Too complicated? Gimme a break!) Hell, our sugary fizzy drinks even all come in 1 and 2 liter bottles, FFS!
          • eterm4 hours ago
            For Americans: this is roughly 3500 sqft.
          • taneq4 hours ago
            So very roughly a 300kW spotlight pointed at a relatively small area (wild guess at around 1km^2, anyone done the maths?)<p>Edit: A 5km diameter spot illuminated from 600km altitude.
        • whh8 hours ago
          Every colleagues watch face.
        • csallen8 hours ago
          A gigantic source of light in the sky that lights up a part of the Earth and is too bright to look at is... the sun. I think we&#x27;re all used to the sun.
          • pastel87397 hours ago
            I personally am _not_ used to seeing the sun after sunset and before sunrise.
            • dnel6 hours ago
              Neither is nature, this sounds like an environmental disaster waiting to happen
              • jack_pp5 hours ago
                considering plants grow just fine with grow lights, they don&#x27;t really care. same with co2, they <i>LOVE</i> CO2
                • iamacyborg5 hours ago
                  Nature is more than just plants.
                • jurgenburgen4 hours ago
                  &gt; they LOVE CO2<p>Plants can absorb some more CO2 and it improves their growth slightly but saying they LOVE CO2 is an exaggeration.
                  • KeplerBoy3 hours ago
                    They turn it into sugar, what&#x27;s not to love?
              • csallen3 hours ago
                Solar panels aren&#x27;t nature. Shining lights on solar panels is not going to be an environmental disaster.
          • _vertigo8 hours ago
            everyone’s seen ads before, mind if I put a giant ad in the sky for everyone to look at?
            • orlp6 hours ago
              Don&#x27;t give these ghouls ideas.
              • fragmede4 hours ago
                The idea of putting a PepsiCo or Coca-Cola ad on the moon dates backs to the 60&#x27;s, when we first went there.
      • potamic8 hours ago
        Wut? This has to be some sort of a scam. There&#x27;s no way you&#x27;re going to be reflecting enough light from hundreds of kilometers away.
        • nerdsniper5 hours ago
          It works fantastically well for construction and military applications.
          • verzali34 minutes ago
            Based on what? You get the light of the moon for about 5 minutes.
        • selivanovp6 hours ago
          It&#x27;s not. USSR and Russia experimented with space mirrors and was able to light significant territory. It was a successful program, but in 1993 Russia had no money to continue the project, so it was wrapped up.
        • shafyy7 hours ago
          I really hope it&#x27;s a scam, because if not, and this is allowed to exist, we&#x27;re fucked.
          • kulahan6 hours ago
            oh dear, the stakes are so high
    • inemesitaffia31 minutes ago
      You can&#x27;t launch or transmit without the government&#x27;s permission.<p>Come off this nonsense.<p>The alternative is some company charging the government for the same exact thing.
    • largbae33 minutes ago
      If you believe the hype, just wait until 2029 when it&#x27;s not a person at all!
    • fragmede2 hours ago
      It&#x27;s not one person though. If zero people were using Starlink, then it would be that one person&#x27;s vanity up there, but since it seems people do find it useful, those satellite lines represent humans being able to connect with modern technology out in the Sahara or in the ocean. For sailors to keep in touch with loved ones and to have a less dreary existence on long ocean voyages. And not to fret, China&#x27;s managed to land a reusable rocket, so soon they&#x27;ll have their own constellation up there so it&#x27;s not just that one particular person making a mess of things.<p>What we&#x27;re seeing is humanity managing to become a space faring civilization. I look up and yearn to be up there as well. I&#x27;ll never make it to space, but it would give me such joy if my children&#x27;s children had the opportunity to.
      • benjiro291 hour ago
        &gt; those satellite lines represent humans being able to connect with modern technology out in the Sahara or in the ocean<p>Or basic locations in Europe, that can be as close to 20km from a big city. There are a ton of spots where you have at best spotty 4G coverage or no coverage at all.<p>Used to live where we had 1Mbit ADSL, and no cell ... Trust me, you feel the limitations of that. Keeping your PC running 24&#x2F;7 to download&#x2F;buffer, so you can use your day traffic for more important stuff.<p>Starlink is a insane deal in my eyes. Sure, it uses a lot of power but your paying the same as typical vDSL in Germany. And ironically, ... Starlink is faster then the fixed lines we have here in the &quot;3th&quot; biggest city in Germany.<p>People really underestimate how much underinvestment there has been in Internet connectivity even in rich countries.
        • ihateolives5 minutes ago
          I live in the center of a capital of small EU country and I&#x27;m scheduled to get fiber Q3 this year. Copper is getting tired and flakey, 5G is overcrowded. There&#x27;s been close to no progress in residential internet for the past 15 years.
      • koe1232 hours ago
        It is one person who controls it, at his discretion who gets to share in the utility. What your saying can also be true without such an ownership model, right?
        • natch1 hour ago
          No. We’ve tried that for decades now and it hasn’t worked out very well for getting the world connected. The entire rural earth has been neglected. Even in silicon valley my neighborhood only got fiber this year and its saddled with crappy TV bundle deals, bad mobile apps built with wrapped web pages, poor service, and we-will-sell-your-data anti privacy provisions. Starlink has none of that.
      • sfn4242 minutes ago
        We&#x27;re not space faring. We just put up satellites. There&#x27;s nothing for us outside of the earth. It would take months of travel just to get to the useless barren wasteland that is Mars.<p>Maybe some day we&#x27;ll be mining asteroids near Earth or something. Maybe we&#x27;ll mine the moon. Going to&#x2F;living on different planets is pretty much science fiction though. It&#x27;s hard enough to live on the earth, it&#x27;s gonna be 1000 times harder to live anywhere else.
    • andrepd5 hours ago
      You&#x27;re not the only one: &quot;Beyond the limit: Satellites and mirrors in space pose threat to the night sky&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=48787042">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=48787042</a>
    • alansaber2 hours ago
      Oh I agree it&#x27;s an aberration but it seems unavoidable
    • holoduke5 hours ago
      Russia and China are coming as well. Expect all big countries have hundreds of thousands of low orbit sats. It required in order to be a powerful military nation. Without it a country is doomed.
    • thegreatpeter2 hours ago
      One person?
    • Razengan5 hours ago
      Why didn&#x27;t governments try making it?<p>The US has tons of spy satellites, why not make some for the folks paying taxes? Why do we have to sell our firstborns (data) to Google for maps etc?
      • advael5 hours ago
        Can&#x27;t speak to the world as a whole but the US has we spent 50 years gutting most government functions that aren&#x27;t part of the police&#x2F;military&#x2F;surveillance apparatus (and many of those as well). SpaceX itself is an example of the primary mechanism of this: Diverting funding to private, no-bid contracts that remove both market forces and democratic oversight from those services while also ballooning their costs
        • inemesitaffia25 minutes ago
          Private no bid contracts?<p>Disinformation on the Internet? Never seen it before.<p>The contracts are not just publicly bid but paired.<p>Come off this nonsense.<p>Space is the sphere of government and the launchers and satellites have always been built by companies and SpaceX is very visibly cheaper.
        • thegreatpeter2 hours ago
          Medicare, social security and the interest on the debt are the 3 top federal spending categories<p>Social welfare is the top local spending category in many local&#x2F;state governments
          • advael2 hours ago
            Yea, and medical costs - including those paid for by medicare, often for people who aged into the program with worse health, which in turn is partially attributable to a tendency to avoid preventative care earlier in life due to higher costs - in the US are drastically more expensive than elsewhere, primarily because of this exact pump: Providers, insurance, equipment manufacturers, and various middleman orgs have arisen to deal with a system that is riddled with cost-inflating private-public partnerships and regulatory band-aids to mitigate small parts of the mess that end up having second-order effects that mostly also raise costs.<p>I believe some functions are simply best performed by non-profit-motivated government agencies. However, I would usually prefer an actual unregulated or black market over the corrupt frankenstein of private-public partnerships
        • bell-cot1 hour ago
          While there&#x27;s a lot of truth to your &quot;gutting most gov&#x27;t functions&quot; claim, you might want to compare SpaceX&#x27;s subsidies and launch costs with those of the gov&#x27;t&#x27;s traditional providers. And look at myriad $billions that have been squandered on the Senate Launch System.<p>There are plenty of solid reasons to despise Elon - no need for counterfactuals.
        • redsocksfan454 hours ago
          [dead]
      • bell-cot1 hour ago
        &gt; Why didn&#x27;t the government try...<p>As a broad generality, governments are utter crap at inventing&#x2F;building&#x2F;operating bleeding-edge technologies at giga-scale. Exceptions are generally narrow-focus military hardware, plus flood control, aqueducts, and other &quot;<i>obviously</i> needed for the nation&#x27;s welfare&quot; stuff.
      • DSingularity4 hours ago
        Once you notice the pattern of how these companies are started you will see that there is a hidden hand of government behind much of what we think is an independent, market driven, capitalistic enterprise. Whether it’s Facebook or Oracle or Palantir or SpaceX it’s all the same. Heck even the founding of Silicon Valley itself can be viewed to be government driven. The bottom line is national security is not going to be left to the whims of a market when the pentagon has a black budget that can eclipse all of VC spending with the stroke of a generals pen.
    • beachy8 hours ago
      We live in a remote area with no surrounding lights, perfect for star watching.<p>It disgusts me that now, at all times, I can see strings of man made objects polluting the skies.
      • matwood50 minutes ago
        This is the same logic Trump used to fight a wind farm put in off the coast of one of his golf courses.
      • mlindner7 hours ago
        If you&#x27;re seeing &quot;strings&quot; those are recently launched satellites. Operational satellites are below visual magnitude.
        • ncruces6 hours ago
          They are not, especially after twilight, or before dawn.
          • ben_w5 hours ago
            Indeed. Compare <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;pdf&#x2F;2502.03651" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;pdf&#x2F;2502.03651</a> with <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bortle_scale" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bortle_scale</a>
    • SirHackalot7 hours ago
      [flagged]
    • foxglacier7 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • bayindirh7 hours ago
        That’s a very reductionist and dismissive take. Also it’s rude.<p>I’m an occasional astrophotographer, and the baseline of photos you can took are absolutely breathtaking now. Seeing this destroyed in real time is depressing.<p>I used to see a rare flyby of a satellite in the complete dark, but now it’s much more, and besides my personal annoyance, many people much more serious about sky and space are rightfully angry. Maybe you can ask them to grow up, too.<p>Not every progress is good progress. We should understand that by now. You should understand that better than all of us combined, since you’re apparently grown up, way more than us.
        • drstewart7 hours ago
          &gt;Not every progress is good progress<p>And you&#x27;re the judge of this based on your likes and hobbies?<p>Anyway, I agree. Just ask the people blocking the HS2 or CaHSR about how sad the train plowing through their communities makes them feel. We need to tear down all trains, not every progress is good progress
          • RandomLensman7 hours ago
            Would you say it might at least be fair to discuss how things that affect everyone are decided upon or how externalities are compensated for? Or should it be free for all?
            • user439286 hours ago
              Are there not processes in place, with the FCC?<p>The top comment here is someone lamenting how depressing it is that supposedly a single person owns the night sky.<p>Another one is asking if we will be the last generation to see the night sky.
              • RandomLensman4 hours ago
                If there is a lot of change to how the night sky looks like could perhaps be worth a discussion on if the process is still the right one (and if it is global enough).
                • user439283 hours ago
                  That is fair enough.<p>Yet with how political and dramatized the discussion around this is even on this website here, I fear that any opportunity to block or delay more SpaceX satellites will be used to the fullest.<p>I am concerned that this might hinder innovation. If you involve other countries, would this not be likely to become an extremely hard and slow regulatory process?<p>I understand that SpaceX&#x27;s mitigation methods have been effective, and that the current satellites are on average around the limit of being visible to the naked eye under a very dark sky.<p>Personally I am eager to see more of these satellites enable 5G like cellular coverage outdoors in rural areas.<p>Perhaps I am more open to change in the appearance of nature than others. Some oppose also wind turbines in our mountains, where I usually think that they look cool and typically make the landscape more interesting.
                  • matwood44 minutes ago
                    I feel similarly. For example, when I see wind farms it gives me hope that we are moving towards more sustainable fuels. It also makes me feel like I&#x27;ve lived long enough to see the future.<p>With that said, I think we should have honest conversations about the benefits vs. the impacts, but also realize nothing is stagnant, not even nature.
                  • RandomLensman3 hours ago
                    I don&#x27;t have the answers here, I a afraid, but not having at least the broader discussion might also not help (not sure what is already happening there, though).
              • vkou5 hours ago
                &gt; Are there not processes in place, with the FCC?<p>The impartiality of those processes is a bit in question when the prime mover here is so far in bed with the executive that he gets to go up on stage during inauguration to sieg a few heils.<p>(And is then given a free hand to fire whomever he wants from the federal government.)
                • inemesitaffia22 minutes ago
                  SpaceX has launched satellite under a previous government and even got them to fund deployment.<p>The ITU has also approved SpaceX actions.
        • foxglacier5 hours ago
          It&#x27;s not reductionist - planes and their vapor trails are a constant presence in the sky there and in many places. Far more obvious than even these 5-10x as many satellites will be. I&#x27;m sure there are cloud photographers who are bothered by plane but, as with Starlink, there are people getting good value from them. There are even photographers embracing them. I think you see the world how you&#x27;re familiar with as good or at least acceptable but anything different as bad.
          • duskdozer5 hours ago
            People are louder about things that have not yet taken hold because it&#x27;s easier to stop them. The constant rumble of airplanes in the sky is a problem actually, but it&#x27;s far more entrenched. Why is it difficult to understand that people notice and care about negative externalities of so-called &quot;progress&quot;?
        • mlindner7 hours ago
          The post he was replying to is the reductionist and dismissive take.<p>And yes progress is good progress.
          • TimorousBestie6 hours ago
            &gt; And yes progress is good progress.<p>Many weapons designers thought they were making war “more humane” by creating weapons that killed faster and more decisively.<p>Haber, on chemical warfare: “The gas weapons are not at all more cruel than the flying iron pieces; on the contrary, the fraction of fatal gas diseases is comparatively smaller, the mutilations are missing.”
            • Marha015 hours ago
              &gt; Many weapons designers thought they were making war “more humane” by creating weapons that killed faster and more decisively.<p>Do you think the world would be better off if we still killed ourselves with swords instead of drones? The result is the same. A death is a death. The real cause of wars is not &quot;better weapons&quot;.
              • vkou5 hours ago
                In that case, isn&#x27;t the most logical and reasonable way to fight wars would be to immediately use city-killing nuclear weapons?
            • skor6 hours ago
              Here is another example<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fortune.com&#x2F;2026&#x2F;02&#x2F;21&#x2F;laptops-tablets-schools-gen-z-less-cognitively-capable-parents-first-time-cellphone-bans-standardized-test-scores&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fortune.com&#x2F;2026&#x2F;02&#x2F;21&#x2F;laptops-tablets-schools-gen-z...</a>
      • Lomlioto7 hours ago
        What happened to you that you became that dismissive?<p>Was it not a big issue for you that aeroplanes were flying overhead?<p>Whos responsibility was it that you were living were you lived?<p>I guess there is a small difference between being able to choose or parents have choosen for you vs. everyone on the whole planet needs to endure it.
        • glemmaPaul4 hours ago
          We could pass this user forward to a psychology forum for evaluation, I think they&#x27;d have a field day with these types of people.<p>A lot to unpack<p>&#x2F;s - obviously
      • da_grift_shift5 hours ago
        <i>Be kind. Don&#x27;t be snarky. Converse curiously; don&#x27;t cross-examine. Edit out swipes.</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html#comments">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html#comments</a>
      • throwawaysoxjje6 hours ago
        Dude, are you okay?
    • small_model5 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • ben_w5 hours ago
        &gt; &#x27;My kids had to see a power line going through the country side&#x27;<p>A lot of people get upset about such things, even those are rather more important than just adding to the world&#x27;s existing widespread internet access.
        • dzhiurgis5 hours ago
          Wind turbines and solar farms is another one. It’s same people who whinge about crying babies on plane.
          • ben_w5 hours ago
            All of those three examples are also rather more important than Starlink.<p>Starlink is cool, and has some niches, but this is a fairly limited argument in its favour.
            • dzhiurgis2 hours ago
              All three are greener variant of what was already available. Alternatives to starlink weren’t really available.
      • andrepd5 hours ago
        &gt; you should be celebrating what Elon and his companies have achieved<p>The level of servility of some people never ceases to amaze me. This sentence is <i>viscerally</i> repulsive to me.
    • bilsbie2 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • bumby1 hour ago
        Maybe somewhat ironically, I think this is an overly cynical take.<p>People can acknowledge a difference of values and recognize what they consider a destruction of the commons without their stance being distilled to simply being a hater.<p>Would you also considering people who bemoan the degradation of Lake Erie by industrialists of the last century as “crab mentality”?<p>Similarly, people at the time took what may be closer to the opposite stance: “Fundamentally this level of environmental degradation was accepted as a sign of success.”<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.smithsonianmag.com&#x2F;history&#x2F;cuyahoga-river-caught-fire-least-dozen-times-no-one-cared-until-1969-180972444&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.smithsonianmag.com&#x2F;history&#x2F;cuyahoga-river-caught...</a>
    • tticvs8 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • Natfan8 hours ago
        until the kessler effect traps is on this ever-heating rock
        • mercutio27 hours ago
          LEO is not the place to worry about Kessler syndrome.<p>Mostly, Kessler syndrome isn’t something to worry about at all; there are just a lot of orbital planes available. But in LEO, the mechanics don’t even apply.
          • gradschool3 hours ago
            Not to be alarmist, but suppose a galactic federation judges that humans in their current state of development will pose a danger to other civilizations when they imminently attain warp capability, so as a safety precaution they need to be confined to their planet for at least a millennium. An agent of the federation posing as human manipulates the population into allowing 100,000 satellites to be deployed. With that done, federation scientists solve the many-body problem for the exact necessary speed and trajectory of a small meteor to shatter one of the satellites such that some of its fragments precisely target its neighboring satellites, and so on, while the rest get kicked up into higher orbits. Life goes on but any enterprise that depends on penetrating the debris field becomes infeasible.
          • newtonianrules7 hours ago
            Why is that?
            • Pomfers5 hours ago
              Depends on how you define LEO. I think the commenter was probably thinking of Very Low Earth Orbit, VLEO.<p>First graph is a list of deorbit times: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nasa.gov&#x2F;smallsat-institute&#x2F;sst-soa&#x2F;deorbit-systems&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nasa.gov&#x2F;smallsat-institute&#x2F;sst-soa&#x2F;deorbit-syst...</a><p>As expected, higher altitudes, higher mass, and lower surface areas correlate to longer deorbit times. It looks like altitude has an extreme effect on deorbit times, as you can see the 100 KG satellite (solar min) deorbits in a little under 2 years at 400 KM, but over 15 years at 500 KM. So 1.25x the altitude results in 7.5x the deorbit time.<p>Stuff at 800-1000 KM can take centuries to deorbit, and that&#x27;s within both NASA&#x27;s (under 2000 KM) and the ESA&#x27;s (under 1000 KM) definitions of LEO. There is a definition for VLEO of under 450 KM, which would have fairly short deorbit times, and therefore a relatively mild Kessler Syndrome.
              • ben_w5 hours ago
                Indeed. It&#x27;s something investors should worry about for the data centres and if SpaceX will bankrupt itself instead of giving them a return on their investments, but it&#x27;s not something where general space enthusiasts should worry about Starlink: the timescale for orbital decay is long enough to kill a company, but short compared to a lifetime.
            • marand234 hours ago
              Because LEO is a degrading orbits, meaning that the satelites fall out of orbit after a few years on their own.
      • Lomlioto6 hours ago
        Hope for what?<p>For less starving people? For less child abuse? For less climate change?<p>I look up at the night sky and i want to see stars and the endlessness of the universe and don&#x27;t want to be reminded that Elon Musk will poisen our atmosphere.
        • Marha015 hours ago
          &gt; For less starving people? For less child abuse? For less climate change?<p>Yes. The only way to truly solve these issues is technological progress.
          • zimpenfish3 hours ago
            Not really, all three of them are sociological problems. And, at least for the first and last, we could already have mostly solved them but for the intransigent insanity of various political cults.<p>It&#x27;s not technological progress we need; it&#x27;s cultural progress.
            • inglor_cz2 hours ago
              Logistics of food distribution is a technological problem, and nowadays famines tend to happen less due to absolute shortage of food in a wider region, rather than due to insufficiently developed transport infrastructure.<p>IIRC no place in the world which has hard-paved highways has ever seen a peacetime famine. That&#x27;s almost exclusively the domain of mud road territories. Of course, this is partly a correlation (mud road territories have worse governance and more banditry), but there is causality as well.
        • tticvs3 hours ago
          Well the only thing that has ever solved starvation is improved technology, child abuse I think has nothing to do with satellites, and managing climate change requires massive energy and technology resources especially in space.<p>So clearly you are in favor of starvation and human suffering due to climate change because of your irrational distaste for seeing satellites in orbit.<p>I suspect the root cause is you&#x27;ve overdosed on propaganda on the internet.
        • noworriesnate3 hours ago
          How is Elon Musk going to poison our atmosphere?
          • fragmede3 hours ago
            The Starlink satellites burn up in the atmosphere as they end their useful life. The metals that the satellites are made up of don&#x27;t vanish in the thin air up there. They burn and just hang up there. Now, whether or not this is an impending disaster is for you to decide, but that&#x27;s the theory of it.
    • shevy-java6 hours ago
      Agreed - I&#x27;d consider this public pollution caused by extremely greedy billionaires ruining the planet. They could only amass money because they did not care about social responsibilities prior to do so; any contrary statement made by them to this is only lies, lies and more lies.<p>Unfortunately you need a government that cares for the whole; in the USA oligarchs rule, so the general public are treated as paying slaves.
      • inglor_cz2 hours ago
        &quot;I&#x27;d consider this public pollution caused by extremely greedy billionaires ruining the planet.&quot;<p>This is such a weird framing, as if Starlink was a frivolous project for some rich person&#x27;s fun.<p>There is genuine demand for orbital ISP from people, including people in poorer countries whom a better connectivity may help improve their incomes and lives, where an alternative is basically impossible (you won&#x27;t get optic fibre in the Himalayas or Papua or the Andes anytime soon, if ever).<p>20 million people are now using Starlink and that number will almost certainly grow to maybe ten times as many, eventually. Ukraine uses Starlink to defend itself from being devoured by an aggressor. Sailors and other people in far away places use Starlink to keep in touch with their families.<p>Did you know that before Starlink, the South Pole Base had just 2x256 kB connection for everyone?<p>I get the &quot;pollution&quot; angle, but not the &quot;hey, one guy is ruining the planet&quot; angle. At the very least, all the customers are complicit, and I would add all the governments that don&#x27;t seem to be able to build terrestrial connections for their own population.
      • shusaku5 hours ago
        Blaming this on billionaires instead of “the whole” who are customers of space-x is asinine.
      • throwthrowuknow5 hours ago
        [dead]
    • moomoo118 hours ago
      buddy our ancestors didn’t even have light at night nor heat&#x2F;ac.<p>life for our kin will only be better.<p>we will have space stations where you can visit and see all the stars you want.<p>there will be space tourism and that will be pretty cool.<p>that’s what i wanted as a kid and its cool to see it play out irl.<p>edit: dang didn&#x27;t expect so many negative people
      • pastel87397 hours ago
        Why is that better? Because you read about it in a sci fi book?
      • Lomlioto7 hours ago
        Buddy our anceostors were able to see the night sky.<p>I don&#x27;t need a space station with space tourism only the richest can afford and will be still very dangerous to see the stars right now.<p>What you will see is how Starlink satelites will poisen our atmosphere at re-entry.
        • moomoo116 hours ago
          so what&#x27;s the alternative? just don&#x27;t make any progress?
          • sobellian22 minutes ago
            People have different definitions of progress. I have found that people who are &quot;progressive&quot; on one axis can often be quite conservative on another. Look at the SF Bay Area. While it is quite progressive in the political-ideology sense, we oppose construction that would cause literal progress in the material conditions of the citizenry. &quot;Manhattanization&quot; has been a word used for decades to oppose the thought of densifying SF. My neighbors here in North Bay come out in arms to oppose light bollards on a public footpath. We cannot even progress our footpaths. Rather than build a larger, more inclusive, and cheaper city, you will find countless proponents for rent control - a solution to the question of, &quot;how can I use the law to keep my apartment cheap while refusing to accommodate any more people in the city?&quot;<p>You are seeing this in this thread. I doubt anyone likes to be described as contra-progress. But nevertheless people would rather conserve the current night sky than see it transmute into a shimmering sea of a million artificial satellites. It&#x27;s not really obvious to me why one state should be preferable to the other.
          • pera2 hours ago
            In the mid 20th century some people believed urban motorways were &quot;progress&quot; and wanted to build them everywhere, see for example:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Futurama_%28New_York_World%27s_Fair%29" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Futurama_%28New_York_World%27s...</a>
            • rvba1 hour ago
              Thank you for sharing this.<p>This vision is absolutely horryfying, yet at same time incredibly interesting.
          • CWIZO4 hours ago
            Yes? We don&#x27;t have to blindly and constantly be making progress on everything at all cost. Look around you, look at what all this progress did to the world we live in.
            • freedomben1 hour ago
              Then our descendants will talk about how they were held back by our greedy ancestors who just wanted to be able to look at the night sky and see only natural stars, and they&#x27;ll be right.<p>Also let me guess, you have high speed internet avaiable at your house so starlink isn&#x27;t your only high-speed option right now?
          • ivell1 hour ago
            Progress is a very human centric view. But if you consider earth as a whole system, we have over optimized the system for our benefit while the other parts of the system hugely suffered (other species, environment etc.).<p>We need to ensure our progress is balanced taking into account the whole system instead of just one part.
          • ben_w5 hours ago
            The alternative to Starlink already existed before Starlink. I&#x27;m using it right now.
            • freedomben1 hour ago
              my alternative was dial up or a 10 Mbps flaky wireless ISP. Is that what you&#x27;re using right now?
            • mmsimanga4 hours ago
              African here living under and shit hole government who has no interest in improving the lives of the people. Starlink has been a game changer! An absolute game changer. I do not support Elon Musk but just putting out there that Starlink is helping kids in remote areas with no electricity (they use small solar panel) to access the Internet.
              • JKCalhoun1 hour ago
                Hopefully they don&#x27;t part with books—the way kids in the U.S. have. Hopefully they don&#x27;t spend all their free time on Tik Tok…
                • mmsimanga49 minutes ago
                  Most people cannot afford to have it in their home. They will get access at school or shopping centre. Most kids don&#x27;t have phones either but I really do get your point. The other danger is they tend to be susceptible to fake news and stories made up using AI. I have had cousins from the village send me a picture of a mermaid claiming she was caught in one of the rivers.
              • JKCalhoun1 hour ago
                Hopefully they don&#x27;t part with books—the way kids in the U.S. have.
            • inglor_cz2 hours ago
              <i>In some places.</i><p>Starlink is a global phenomenon, good ISPs were at best a local phenomenon.
          • applfanboysbgon6 hours ago
            Polluting the sky with junk is not &quot;progress&quot;.
            • mhb1 hour ago
              Airplanes?
            • Marha015 hours ago
              Colonizing space is progress.
              • taotau3 hours ago
                Yeah, how is that mars colony plan going realistically. have they figured out the bits about how humans are going to survive in a toxic irradiated environment for months on end? I want it to happen, but I honestly havent heard much from spacex about it other than we have to be allowed to develop cheap rockets. There&#x27;s a lot more involved in a journey to mars than just cheap launch costs.
              • bluescrn5 hours ago
                The word &#x27;colonization&#x27; has become rather toxic, though. Maybe we need a new word for occupying barren planets where there&#x27;s no native life being displaced?
              • antonvs4 hours ago
                No-one is “colonizing space”, you’re just being conned by a man who figured out he can make a lot of money by convincing people that such fantasies could be real.<p>The US spends up to $4 billion a year just to keep a few people alive on the ISS. And they can’t stay there too long because it’s too dangerous to their health. The idea that we’re going to “colonize space” in the foreseeable future is laughable.
                • inglor_cz2 hours ago
                  Sending robots to space is still a form of building presence there. Not every colonist has to be a human. In fact, they are probably coming last, into pre-prepared positions and bases.
      • nalekberov8 hours ago
        Granted “we” are billionaires.<p>Not only you didn’t get the point, but you still hold on to your delusions:<p>&gt; life for our kin will only be better.<p>Right? In this subscription economy? Where you have just limited time to watch the movie you loved? You can’t afford to rent the house you loved let alone buy it? (previous generations could afford) the list goes on and on.<p>Maybe stop spreading lies and see things more objectively?
        • AlexandrB49 minutes ago
          Being objective doesn&#x27;t mean laser focusing on the negatives. For instance:<p>&gt; Where you have just limited time to watch the movie you loved?<p>You know how many movies the average peasant watched in the 1800s? 0. The closest equivalent was live theatre and that was an expensive luxury. You&#x27;d also likely get see one or more of your children die to diseases that are trivially treatable or preventable today.
        • moomoo117 hours ago
          you know there&#x27;s more to life than just subscribing to services meant for the Lowest Common Denominator right? and of those people literally billions are happy to pay for them.<p>edit: not LCD the screen… if you thought thats what i meant then… nvm… not even gonna say it lol iykyk
          • nalekberov6 hours ago
            Mine is OLED, perhaps this is the reason I am not among those billions :(<p>EDIT: You edited your comment after I submit my response. You cannot put arbitrary abbreviations and expect people to read your mind. Anyway, there is no point in arguing with you.
        • csallen8 hours ago
          [flagged]
          • Lomlioto7 hours ago
            And for what?<p>For a planet which gets warmer and warmer.<p>When did you became that compliant?
            • p1dda6 hours ago
              [flagged]
          • _vertigo8 hours ago
            ..you good bro? Anyway, things are improving but that doesn’t mean people can’t have a say in what tradeoffs they are willing to accept in return for progress.<p>A lot of progress has externalities and the benefits and downsides of progress are rarely equally distributed.
            • csallen7 hours ago
              Uhhh, I don&#x27;t know what you&#x27;re reading, but the comment I was replied to was complaining about the &quot;subscription economy&quot; and not having enough time to watch movies as evidence why life is getting worse.<p>&gt; A lot of progress has externalities and the benefits and downsides of progress are rarely equally distributed.<p>The vast majority of humanity has benefited from progress, compared to most decades and certainly centuries in the past. So I don&#x27;t really know what your point is here?
          • uxcolumbo7 hours ago
            Of course life now is better than 100 years ago.<p>But do you really think life has been getting better in the last 10 years say?<p>Do you think trickle down economics works?<p>Are you happy with the way things are going under this administration, which favours those BILLIONAIRES you mentioned, but couldn’t really give a damn about the rest of us or the commons?<p>Are you OK living in a future where there are zero checks and balances and the .1% fully controlling and owning the political and policy space, i.e. the return to the Robber Barons era?
            • csallen6 hours ago
              &gt; But do you really think life has been getting better in the last 10 years say?<p>Uh, yeah. My TV&#x27;s much better, my video games are better, programming is easier and more fun with these new AI options added on top of better frameworks than we had in the past, there are way more restaurants serving better food, way more great shows and movies, there&#x27;s mainstream awareness of the ills of social media, I can take driverless taxis around my city, I can tap to pay pretty much everywhere, wayyyyyy more of my friends work remotely. I&#x27;m 40 now, and myself + most of my friends + family are making more money now than we were at 30.<p>&gt; Are you OK living in a future where there are zero checks and balances and the .1% fully controlling and owning the political and policy space, i.e. the return to the Robber Barons era?<p>You sound like you&#x27;ve been reading a bunch of gloom and doom scenarios. Get offline. Go outside. Touch grass. Breathe. People are still going out to eat at restaurants, they&#x27;re still playing intramural sports, they&#x27;re still going to the beach with their friends, they&#x27;re still watching plays, they&#x27;re still visiting family and hosting movie nights. Stop reading so much negative news that&#x27;s telling you the sky is falling and that everything is going to shit.<p>Of course there are massive problems and inequities we&#x27;re solving, of course! But that&#x27;s always been the case. Relax. Breathe. Put it in perspective.
              • uxcolumbo2 hours ago
                All those things are not necessities of life. Food, shelter and energy have become more expensive and poverty rates have barely shifted and are currently getting worse.<p>Your response is basically &#x27;Works on my machine!&#x27;.<p>And speaking of touching grass; what do you think the recent change of the Endangered Species Act (ESA) under this administration will mean to our commons?<p>I&#x27;ll tell you, it means the new rule will make it easier to legally destroy wildlife habitats. And this on top of all the climate protection policies this administration is eagerly rolling back, because solar is woke or something. I guess you&#x27;re OK with that too, since it doesn&#x27;t impact you (yet).<p>Even though living standards have improved in the last 100 years overall, it&#x27;s not a guarantee it will continue like that, if we let the Robber Barons take full control again.
              • hvb25 hours ago
                &gt; Of course there are massive problems and inequities we&#x27;re solving, of course! But that&#x27;s always been the case. Relax. Breathe. Put it in perspective.<p>You&#x27;re just not someone who has to deal with these problems. Are we solving them? Not sure what you&#x27;re being that of.<p>&gt; Get offline. Go outside. Touch grass. Breathe. People are still going out to eat at restaurants, they&#x27;re still playing intramural sports, they&#x27;re still going to the beach with their friends, they&#x27;re still watching plays, they&#x27;re still visiting family and hosting movie nights.<p>I suggest you stop touching grass and go and talk to a few less fortunate people. Maybe that can broaden your perspective
                • csallen4 hours ago
                  &gt; You&#x27;re just not someone who has to deal with these problems. Are we solving them? Not sure what you&#x27;re [basing] that of.<p>Almost every major measure of human progress and prosperity over time?<p>What are you basing your doom and gloom beliefs on?<p>&gt; I suggest you stop touching grass and go and talk to a few less fortunate people. Maybe that can broaden your perspective<p>I would wager my perspective is much broader than yours. Being so anxious and pessimistic that you only focus on the negative, to such a degree where when people point out real positive progress you feel COMPELLED to say something negative, doesn&#x27;t mean you have a broad perspective. It just means you&#x27;re miserable.
            • dzhiurgis5 hours ago
              10 years ago I couldn’t buy self driving, zero pollution, zero maintenance supercar for next to nothing.
              • uxcolumbo3 hours ago
                Which self driving supercar is that?<p>But I&#x27;m not talking about luxuries like super cars that most people couldn&#x27;t afford.<p>I&#x27;m talking about the necessities of life. Food, shelter and energy have become more expensive and under this administration&#x27;s policies it&#x27;s not getting any better.<p>Poverty rates have barely improved and under this administration desire to reduce SNAP budget heavily, what do you think this will do to child poverty rates?
                • dzhiurgis2 hours ago
                  The one that drives millions of people every day
          • dartharva8 hours ago
            &gt;watching their children die from easily curable infections, enduring routine tooth extractions without anesthesia, working six-day weeks around lethal machinery, watching entire neighboring towns slowly starve to death in famines, living in huts that were crawling with insects, subject to the brutal whims of whoever their local thug ruler happened to be with no human rights at all, and often being enslaved by the millions and worked to death in brutal conditions. Those softies just couldn&#x27;t possibly imagine how truly hard we have it today.<p>A significant portion of the human populace still lives like this in various degrees <i>today</i>. You are just blind to it because you&#x27;d rather live in your delusion for comfort.
            • csallen7 hours ago
              What&#x27;s your point? Progress is not perfection. There will always be human suffering. Acknowledging that there&#x27;s progress is not the same thing as ignoring the fact that there&#x27;s suffering. I don&#x27;t know what sort of cult mindset got everybody to believe that those are the same thing, but it&#x27;s horrible and delusional and incredibly illogical.
              • ThoAppelsin7 hours ago
                I think the point is: some people will be left behind while reaching the described space era, just like the way it happened with many previous leaps and left behind those populations that are suffering from now-easily-curable diseases. And this time around, it seems like only a minority that are billionaires will be able to move forward, and we all will be left behind.<p>I believe it should’ve been possible to not leave so much people behind and so much behind. Requiring those at the front to not leave people so far behind (and forcefully funneling away their riches if they do) would’ve been enough.
                • csallen6 hours ago
                  Life is better for the poorest in society than it&#x27;s ever been, thanks in large part to the nonstop proliferation and cheapening of technology in the past 200 years, esp. the past 100. I can&#x27;t for the life of me understand why you people are so focused on trying to drag down the top when you could be focused on further bringing up the bottom. It&#x27;s just such a miserable negative perspective on life, like crabs in a bucket.
                • Marha015 hours ago
                  &gt; And this time around, it seems like only a minority that are billionaires will be able to move forward, and we all will be left behind.<p>I don&#x27;t think this is true. Of course, rich people will always benefit the most from any technological advances. But there is no indication that the average Joe will be worse off in say, 20 years, compared to today. Medical advances alone coming down the pipeline will likely tip the scales towards future average Joe being better off compared to today. If I have to make a choice, for example: do I want to cut the deaths from diseases by half and fill the sky with Starlink satellites, or do nothing? I am picking the better medicice and Starlink-filled sky.
          • moomoo116 hours ago
            dude i dig your sarcasm and i agree with your point
    • prasadjoglekar2 hours ago
      Also, get off my lawn.
    • esikich8 hours ago
      I&#x27;m in northern Wisconsin right now and the sky looks fucking amazing. Stop being so dramatic.
    • PowerElectronix3 hours ago
      Think that the sky is one nuke away from being 100% clean at any given time.
    • bilsbie2 hours ago
      It’s adorable you think the government represents the people.
      • int3trap2 hours ago
        Comments like this always make me lol. It&#x27;s a pointless comment. Do something about it if you think the government doesn&#x27;t represent you. Or shut the fuck up.
      • tonyhart72 hours ago
        it is represent people, but its not which people think actually is
    • IMTDb4 hours ago
      Which government ? And based on the past few month, if your are thinking of the US governemnt; I can assure you that it is actively being harmful to me.<p>I have no love for SpaceX but at least I can take a subscription or invest and the stock and pretend that those satellites are beneficial to me.<p>There isn’t a single US government owned satellite that is not actively harmful to me at the moment.
  • SoftTalker2 minutes ago
    Literally building skynet.
  • consumer45120 hours ago
    When Starlink first became available here in poor-ish Central-EU, I was excited. Then, only months later, but after years of planning: EU funding brought fiber to my farm area, at ~$25&#x2F;900mbps 10ms.<p>While my story is just n=1, I don&#x27;t understand the huge upside for Starlink outside of Africa or India, where they have &lt;.1% the money to spend on such things.<p>However, I am dumb, and very open to be convinced.
    • kevinkeller14 hours ago
      &gt; I don&#x27;t understand the huge upside for Starlink outside of Africa or India, where they have &lt;.1% the money to spend on such things.<p>India is rapidly expanding fiber internet connectivity, even in rural areas: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bharat_Broadband_Network" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bharat_Broadband_Network</a><p>In addition, 4G&#x2F;5G coverage is extensive: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ookla.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;india-mobile-connectivity-1h2025" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ookla.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;india-mobile-connectivity-1h2...</a><p>See India in this 5G global coverage map: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ookla.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;5g-map-2026" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ookla.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;5g-map-2026</a><p>The number of people who are not covered by above-mentioned fiber&#x2F;cell network, <i>and</i> can afford Starlink as it is priced now, will be extremely small (likely making Starlink unviable as a profitable business).
      • darth_avocado11 hours ago
        &gt; The number of people who are not covered by above-mentioned fiber&#x2F;cell network, and can afford Starlink as it is priced now, will be extremely small<p>People vastly overestimate the purchasing power in places like India. Most of the purchasing power is concentrated in the top 1% of the population and most of that 1% lives in urban areas with fiber connectivity. The bottom 90% don’t even make $1K&#x2F;person&#x2F;year. Even a $10&#x2F;month subscription (1&#x2F;5th of what it costs right now) would be 10% of the total income, which at those income levels, would never be a priority.
        • Ray201 hour ago
          &gt; would be 10% of the total income, which at those income levels, would never be a priority.<p>People vastly underestimate the subjective importance of the Internet for people. 10-20% of the total income seems like a very realistic figure, even if it means spending some days hungry.
        • inglor_cz7 hours ago
          When I was a teenager in early post-Communist Czechia, Internet connection was also expensive. So what we did was that we pooled resources. Five or ten households had a common connection and shared it.<p>I don&#x27;t doubt that similar schemes will be used in Africa or India.<p>BTW Median income in India is about $3K a year.
          • laughing_man7 hours ago
            That&#x27;s exactly what&#x27;s happening. Entire villages are sharing one connection.
            • yxhuvud6 hours ago
              That is great, but it also sets the stage for actual fiber to be drawn as it is vastly cheaper to connect to an existing end user network than to build it up from scratch. When a critical mass of villages have built internal networks it will be worth drawing cable for them as well.<p>Lack of sufficient population density and political instability is what would stop this.
      • stevep987 hours ago
        Global cellular operator revenue is approx $1T. They have put their toe in the water with direct-to-cellular support for starlink, and have bought spectrum to improve this. I&#x27;m sure they basically want to offer cellular to everyone in the world and get a good chunk of that $1T. Maybe they want 20% of it? Sounds crazy, but China Mobile, Verizon, and Deutsche Telecom each have 10%. Sounds it&#x27;s not so wild that they can grab a big chunk, especially if they can find new customers that are not already connected.<p>And of course they can also continue to grow their broadband internet access business.<p>I suppose they will likely start putting cameras and other data sensors on the satellites so they can sell other data for mapping, positioning services, agriculture, weather, etc. The incremental cost to add this to the platform will be almost nothing compared to existing systems.
        • rsynnott0 minutes ago
          It’s a pretty low margin business, tho, generally.
        • Lomlioto6 hours ago
          It will take years if not more to be technical capable to have modems so good that they can communicate with a starlink satelite in any reasonable &#x27;day to day&#x27; way.<p>And Starlink already increased prices again.<p>And without Sparship and prooving that they actually can reuse it, they can&#x27;t hold the price point.<p>Starlink satelites do not scale very well. They need v3 and even with v3 this doesn&#x27;t scale efficently.
        • JumpinJack_Cash1 hour ago
          How would people be able to use internet when they are inside? Perhaps under layers and layers of concrete, think a 50 stories building
          • inemesitaffia16 minutes ago
            The same way they already do with DAS and WiFi routers
        • jraby37 hours ago
          This is the right answer. They are building their own cell phone network to compete with major carriers worldwide.
          • Lomlioto6 hours ago
            No they sell a story to investors.<p>Right now we do not even have the antenna technology in current high end smartphones for &#x27;easy to use, normal speed&#x27; mobile to satelite communication.<p>And funny enough, the more local mobile phones you would have, which want to send data to a satelite, the harder the problem gets due to interference.<p>With 5g we do already a lot of beam forming etc. Try beamforming into 500km space with uncoordinated random amount of mobile devices with very very little sending power and one satelite &#x27;beamforming&#x27; its a few hundred square miles.
      • thatxliner13 hours ago
        Starlink is currently partnering with United Airlines for Wi-Fi coverage, so that&#x27;s one thing.
        • dtagames11 hours ago
          Qatar just announced it&#x27;s gate-to-gate and free on their aircraft.
      • enaaem7 hours ago
        Additionally, India is currently banning starlink for national security reasons.
      • oceanplexian12 hours ago
        Starlink accounted for 69% of SpaceX revenue pre-merger and is speculated to be already profitable including launch costs.<p>And this is all before they launch a phone or something, or replace global fiber interconnect with a lower latency space-based alternative, replace all forms of space based telecommunications (TV, Satellite Radio, etc). Starlink is a $1T+ business without even getting creative.
        • nwah112 hours ago
          For context, that revenue was $18.67 billion in 2025, with a net loss of $4.94 billion.<p>And we must remember that 6G is in the final stages of development, which has peak speeds of 1 Tbps.
          • zdragnar11 hours ago
            6G will have worse physical penetration than 5G, which makes it worthless in rural areas where 5G is already severely inhibited by tree leaves.
            • KeplerBoy2 hours ago
              It&#x27;s not that simple. Yes, newer standards push for higher frequencies to get more bandwidth, but 5G for example also uses the old sub GHz bands with excellent range and penetration.
            • markdown7 hours ago
              &gt; in rural areas where 5G is already severely inhibited by tree leaves.<p>This is not a problem in Africa and India.
              • ben_w4 hours ago
                You need an &#x2F;s or a &#x2F;jk or people will take you seriously.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.de&#x2F;maps&#x2F;place&#x2F;Nairobi,+Kenya&#x2F;@-1.2745409,36.8028116,3a,75y,145.58h,92.31t&#x2F;data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQBulD_Hw2fgAESsTmdi-KQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-2.3111237906325073%26panoid%3DQBulD_Hw2fgAESsTmdi-KQ%26yaw%3D145.58426652960952!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x182f1172d84d49a7:0xf7cf0254b297924c!8m2!3d-1.2920659!4d36.8219462!16zL20vMDVkNDk!5m1!1e4?entry=ttu&amp;g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDcwOC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.de&#x2F;maps&#x2F;place&#x2F;Nairobi,+Kenya&#x2F;@-1.2745409,...</a>
          • mlindner11 hours ago
            Starlink by itself does not have a net loss.
        • laughing_man7 hours ago
          Starlink made a $4 bn profit last year, and is apparently growing 30% YoY.
          • ben_w4 hours ago
            Starlink isn&#x27;t billed for the cost of launches.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.fool.com&#x2F;investing&#x2F;2026&#x2F;06&#x2F;29&#x2F;spacex-secret-launch-subsidy-makes-starlink-profit&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.fool.com&#x2F;investing&#x2F;2026&#x2F;06&#x2F;29&#x2F;spacex-secret-laun...</a>
            • laughing_man2 hours ago
              Interesting. I didn&#x27;t realize that.
              • inemesitaffia14 minutes ago
                It&#x27;s not true.<p>It&#x27;s billed at cost. Not at price.
        • Lomlioto6 hours ago
          Yeah but it doesn&#x27;t become a Trillion dollar business if they don&#x27;t solve the Starlink Satelite v3 issue.<p>They need Starship to be able to send v3 up, without v3 it doesn&#x27;t scale well enough.<p>Starship still hasn&#x27;t proven it can actually bring up the relevant payload high enough and they need it to be reusable otherwise costs will increase.<p>And they already exist and only have 10 Million customers. They need to get countries on their side like India but these countries are not stupid. Elon Musk showed them very clearly what he can do like his statements he did when Ukraine war started.
        • Cyberdog11 hours ago
          Will sending bits to space and back really be faster than fiber? How?
          • davrosthedalek10 hours ago
            Lightspeed in air is close to c_vacuum. Light speed in fiber is roughly 2&#x2F;3 c_vacuum. So for transatlantic it might be faster.
            • snickerbockers30 minutes ago
              You need to take error into account, too. Can atmospheric conditions corrupt the transmission (this is not a rhetorical question, I actually don&#x27;t know)? If so then your latency and bandwidth will both suffer.<p>EDIT: also, in the very likely case that the packet is not addressed to the satellite itself, routing comes into play. In the best-case scenario where the satellite is somehow able to transmit the packet directly to its destination the distance it travels is actually doubled. If the packet instead gets transmitted from the satellite to a base-station which then routes it through fiber-optics then there&#x27;s no point in trying to argue that the satellite connection is the faster of the two even if that is true.
            • pferde7 hours ago
              Unless you&#x27;re trying to do something like high frequency stock trading, this does not really matter. Most of the added latency is added in the hops themselves, as packets are being classified and routed. Your generic Internet user won&#x27;t be able to see any difference.
            • db48x8 hours ago
              Often the bigger difference is just that fiber never goes in a straight line, even if it’s going to the right city. All that pesky geography gets in the way and makes the path longer.
              • dizhn1 hour ago
                As far as I can tell it almost exclusively follows the existing roads in Europe. Probably an easier way to secure rights in one go like rails used to be for telco lines.
            • rckclmbr8 hours ago
              Let’s see if we can bring the cost of hollow core fiber down, it would be faster transatlantic even
          • ozim3 hours ago
            It will definitely be faster when someone drops an anchor on the undersea cable.
          • bamboozled10 hours ago
            With positive thinking and maximum upside ?
      • Recurecur11 hours ago
        We’ll how that prediction turns out…<p>My informed opinion says that you are wildly wrong.<p>(Also don’t forget the Starlink related military contracts that SpaceX has.)
        • crossroadsguy9 hours ago
          &gt; My informed opinion<p>Well, my informed (I guess? it&#x27;s first hand) opinion says exactly what the PC said. And no the plan has been underfoot for so long that it really pretty much has nothing to do with the current regime even though I am sure like any regime they&#x27;d say they did it from the scratch.<p>I&#x27;d say we are getting really great at getting broadband to everyone than giving enough bread and education and healthcare to everyone :D (ignore the smiley, this sucks)
        • Lomlioto6 hours ago
          We already have Starlink. Starlink only has 10 Million customers.<p>Starlink increased prices just a fwe weeks ago.<p>So whats stoping the future starlink explosion?
          • defrost6 hours ago
            &gt; what[&#x27;]s stop[p]ing the future Starlink explosion?<p>Constellation numbers are still below the Kessler syndrome threshold?
      • deadbabe14 hours ago
        Automated cargo ships. Traveling to automated ports.
        • dopa4236513 hours ago
          The 5 wage slaves on current ocean giants aren&#x27;t even a rounding error on any calculation.
          • deadbabe13 hours ago
            The wage isn’t the problem, it’s the regulations.
            • abeppu13 hours ago
              ... would there really not be regulations on giant unmanned ships? That seems concerning, though I could certainly understand international &#x2F; maritime law having a gap.
              • FridgeSeal13 hours ago
                I give coastal piracy about 3-weeks to figure out how to commandeer unmanned cargo ships. I bet they’d be ecstatic.
                • ACCount375 hours ago
                  You think current sea pirates are deterred by an unarmed crew of 5?
                • calvinmorrison12 hours ago
                  taps head<p>cant&#x27; steer without a helm
                  • Polizeiposaune11 hours ago
                    you think they won&#x27;t figure out how to hotwire the steer-by-wire controls?
                    • dryarzeg3 hours ago
                      Now, allow me to introduce you to the ID verification. Insert your biometric passport to proceed. &#x2F;j
        • jordanb12 hours ago
          Crews on those ships are spending nearly all their time maintaining them.<p>Many flag and port states already allow One Man Bridge Operation (OMBO) in many circumstances. This means there&#x27;s basically on person on the bridge, and maybe one other person down in the engine room keeping an eye on a floating city block moving through the water at 15 knots
        • zer00eyz12 hours ago
          Never going to happen in your lifetime.<p>Salt water, is nasty, it gets everywhere, the environment on boats is damp. Ships are complicated and require constant effort to keep running.<p>Any sort of &quot;automation&quot; you build in is subject to those same environmental conditions, and wont last long.
        • runako8 hours ago
          This idea that putting $500m+ of assets in the water, but thinking that even one person on the boat is too many has got to be one of the silliest things in modern capitalism (obviously the crown goes to orbital AI data centers).<p>The same bosses will pay multiple security guards, in addition to staff, to guard &lt;$10m in goods at a Walmart. But when 50x the goods are in the ocean, suddenly the staff is the limiter?
      • JumpinJack_Cash1 hour ago
        Space Bears have been saying this for quite a while, we live in megalopolis which already are covered very efficiently and we are only becoming more urban. Of course their voice was drowned because rockets are essentially giant penises piercing the atmosphere and hence the intersection of nerds getting excited for the sake of technical prowness and rich guys who don&#x27;t get laid who seem to be nowadays at the helm of the intelligentia didn&#x27;t want to hear none of that.<p>On top of that add the reusability stunt streamed in 4k making them extrapolate a not well defined pivotal leap for ROI....and there you have it , it&#x27;s the Apollo sinkhole all over again with money being lit on fire an essentially no quality of life ROI for society.<p>At least the Apollo mission got us the ability to deliver nukes to Moscow in 30 minutes or less. This will be a total sinkhole.<p>All the while we are held hostage by a Nation with consumption rates which are a thenth of ours and we still have the audacity to reject nuclear fission because it&#x27;s &quot;dangerous&quot;
    • steve_adams_8615 hours ago
      Here along the BC Coast, the organization I work for has an expansive sensor network. Weather stations, CTDs, custom equipment in watersheds, research facilities with all kinds of equipment to monitor, and so on. There is no broadband or fiber on remote islands along the coast. We used to use satellite internet, and getting data off of our main hubs (everything is relayed to the hubs by radio) was very slow and precarious. Since starlink it&#x27;s a breeze. We will finally be able to get video feeds off of some of the stations; a totally untenable concept before.
      • rurp12 hours ago
        Sure, and that&#x27;s great, but this is an extremely small niche case right? No one is denying that there are some cases where Starlink is amazing, but niche products don&#x27;t usually command a $1T value.
        • tyre10 hours ago
          If you read the SpaceX IPO docs, the vast majority of their self-stated addressable market is AI enterprise SaaS tools.<p>I’m not joking.
          • youngtaff7 hours ago
            And they claimed their TAM was 20% of world GDP!!!
            • ben_w5 hours ago
              Their IPO made me look up what TAM was, and TBH it looks like the kind of metric where you&#x27;re allowed to draw the boundaries however you like.<p>To the extent that they&#x27;re not actually wrong about that TAM:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Total_addressable_market#&#x2F;media&#x2F;File:TAM-SAM-Market.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Total_addressable_market#&#x2F;medi...</a><p>Note that I am <i>not</i> claiming they&#x27;ll get sales anywhere near to close to the TAM. It&#x27;s not like Wikipedia&#x27;s market value is even close to {peak price of Encyclopedia Britannica} * {number of people on the internet} even despite it no longer being generally contested which of Wikipedia and Britannica is now better.
          • piloto_ciego9 hours ago
            I mean, it’s actually not that bad of a play at least here in AK.<p>There’s billions of dollars in monitoring and maintaining remote sites &#x2F; handling remote connectivity, doing bespoke SaaS tools, etc. Like, literally high hundreds of millions or low billions.
        • Recurecur12 hours ago
          Starlink is wonderful for many reasons.<p>It allows technical folk to live wherever they’d like as long as they’re working remotely.<p>The mobile applications, particularly in the case of airline aircraft, have also been compelling and worth a lot of money to SpaceX.<p>Starlink has also brought broadband Internet to a vast number of people that would not have had it otherwise. This will boost the worldwide economy by an enormous amount.
          • Lomlioto6 hours ago
            Starlink only has 10 Million customers, too expensive for most countries already.<p>Starlink brought internet to a lot of people who had it before already but made it easier for them.<p>Its still quite a interesting technology, given, but for the fact that he destroys potentially our atmosphere, has control over war critical tech, can do survailance and wants to send out A Lot MORE into our space, its a net negative for at least 7-8 BILLION people while 10 Millionen people benefit from it.<p>And they even increased the price just a few weeks back...
          • Alpha30319 hours ago
            I don&#x27;t think rurp was saying there is no market, just that there was no obvious realistic TAM worth 1.6 trillion (going by the amount given by the S-1). How many people living remotely in an area with no fibre do you really expect there to be?
            • ElProlactin9 hours ago
              In the future, nobody will have to work (thanks AI!) and we&#x27;ll all be digital nomads roaming the earth living off of 0DTE option gainz and UBI. &#x2F;s
              • wjnc8 hours ago
                The owner of starlink is planning to be the only remaining capitalist. UBI is not for the US, a return to indentured servitude is.
                • antonvs4 hours ago
                  The nice thing about there only being one capitalist is that it’ll be easy for the rest of us to deal with him.
          • abroszka338 hours ago
            &gt; It allows technical folk to live wherever they’d like as long as they’re working remotely.<p>Turns out a simple water cooler technology is enough. We are all back to office because of efficiency.
        • steve_adams_8611 hours ago
          It’s a niche, yes, but there could be others like it. No idea about how the company should be valued. We pay them chump change for our services, but enough that with any scale it could be meaningful. And their reach is pretty incredible, so, there is a lot of potential there.
      • consumer45112 hours ago
        &gt; There is no broadband or fiber on remote islands along the coast.<p>I have family on the USA side of the islands. Kenmore Air is subsidized, but the trees are so darn tall that at many homes, Starlink is not an option. (they like the trees and use directional microwave, which sucks for Zoom)
        • wvanbergen4 hours ago
          Sounds like a similar setup to GAIA on Galiano Island in BC, described here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.galianonet.org&#x2F;about" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.galianonet.org&#x2F;about</a>
        • mlindner11 hours ago
          FWIW it may be tenable now as Starlink has gotten much better at tree&#x2F;obstruction avoidance in the signal and will preemptively switch the satellite it&#x27;s using when an obstruction is approaching. Id check again.
        • ant6n11 hours ago
          Can you use a pole.
          • consumer4519 hours ago
            Douglas Firs are silly tall in the PNW.
          • Barbing11 hours ago
            Or tree mount if not [a] protected [species]
    • petterroea7 hours ago
      Starlink has its uses, but I really don&#x27;t understand those who get starlink while living in built-up areas.<p>Starlink is just a re-skin of the &quot;Wireless optic&quot; thing a lot of ISPs are pushing because they would prefer not having to lay cables and instead have everyone use 5g routers. Of course, the service isn&#x27;t comparable, but regular people don&#x27;t necessarily know it. Fiberoptic is still king, and probably will be for a long time.<p>There&#x27;s nothing comparable to direct fiberoptic cable, and anyone who says otherwise immediately outs themselves as being a sellout or having anti-consumer motives. In 100 years it may be different, but I&#x27;m probably not going to be around in 100 years, so...
      • inemesitaffia9 minutes ago
        Starlink has more suburban and urban users because there are lots of enclaves without service, reliable service or unlimited service.
      • holoduke5 hours ago
        For war it is. Drones and other unmanned aircraft are the future of warfare. That&#x27;s the whole reason why every country now heavily invests in low orbit sats. It&#x27;s not about consumers. Also not for spacex. Defence contracts are zillion times more worth. Once you are in you reach the end level as a business.
        • GCUMstlyHarmls4 hours ago
          Didn&#x27;t we <i>just</i> see that wired drones are the current peak over wireless, and Russia is at this moment jamming satellite drone control...
          • petterroea2 hours ago
            You are right about drones, but Starlink etc is still used a lot by forward deployments of troops. Afaik it has revolutionised the ability to contact these deployments. But I&#x27;m not an army guy
    • olcarl7510 hours ago
      Family lives in Rio&#x2F;Brazil. With the efforts from our government every year that passes, public safety becomes worse and suburban areas get more marginalized, it got to a point where the drug traffickers from my area start cutting the fibers and leaving letters on mailboxes saying that from now on, anyone who wanted internet had to get their illegal internet.<p>Which meant shitty speeds and if you have a problem with billing&#x2F;service you cannot complain to anyone. Their service would go down for days and there is nothing you can do besides rely on shitty 4G. When Starlink became available in Brazil this was the lifesaver for my family
      • HWR_149 hours ago
        So the drug traffickers that cut the fiber have no problem with your Starlink dish outside your home, and don&#x27;t break it and&#x2F;or threaten you? If they care, that seems like an oversight they will soon correct once enough people start using it.
        • blkhawk7 hours ago
          They clearly don&#x27;t want to threaten all the people directly for protection money. That limits what they are willing to do for the scheme. So they cut the cable at places where people are not. This is both efficient in employee time as well as in risk. Starlink antennas can be installed on roofs or in places that aren&#x27;t easily visible.<p>Also you could install it in things that don&#x27;t look like it since it only needs an mostly unobstructed view in a cone to the sky. For example I could se an installation in a fake rain barrel, old bathtub inside a stack of firewood. some cloth coverings also would work so it doesn&#x27;t have to be open either.<p>The only way to find the actual installations would be survey flights that take pictures and compare the data. Then send out inspectors to see if changes on buildings hide starlink antennas.<p>I think the only effect will be that the scheme will go away. Alternatively they could just improve their service so it competes on performance and price with starlink.
          • Lomlioto6 hours ago
            A Starlink antennna would create a lot of reflection in anything metal like a barrel or bathtub (why would you even have a bathtub on the roof?).<p>Finding it would be very easy as these houses are not huge houses, enter the house, snip the cables.<p>Besides that, its all hypotetical. Just because in some random shitty neigherhood this issue exists, doesn&#x27;t mean anything anyway.
            • inemesitaffia8 minutes ago
              This is a common Brazilian issue you&#x27;re dismissing.<p>Very fitting.
      • consumer4519 hours ago
        That is freaking amazing. I want to be clear that reusable first stage of Falcon 9 + Starlink is the coolest tech that I have ever seen. It was just that for me, the financials didn&#x27;t work out.
    • jampa20 hours ago
      When COVID hit, I knew a lot of engineers who decided to move to rural areas &#x2F; small farms because they could leverage Starlink to work remotely.<p>Last year, when I asked whether they still liked Starlink, all of them said it is amazing, but they had gotten fiber coverage in their area from a local provider, so they don&#x27;t use it anymore, or just use it as a backup.<p>I think Starlink was a huge demand signal that there were people willing to pay a premium for faster-than-radio internet. So, unless they manage to be cheaper and faster than fiber, I don&#x27;t think there is much of an endgame there.<p>But there are a few places that will need Starlink, like planes, cruise ships, and islands. I&#x27;m just not sure if that will justify that $1T valuation.
      • 0xffff219 hours ago
        Meanwhile, as one of those engineers, they ran fiber down the highway a mile from my house circa 2021, but they did not do any upgrades at all to the last mile infrastructure so I still only have a ~10Mbps DSL option for wired internet at that house, which is a big step up from literally no wired option before, but still vastly inferior to Starlink. (The terrain makes terrestrial wireless a nonstarter in the area). I&#x27;ve since moved back to civilization, but I still own the house. As far as I know, there are no plans at all to improve the last mile infrastructure.<p>Separately, from SpaceX&#x27;s own prospectus, Starlink is only a tiny fraction of the overall conglomerate that went public recently. It &quot;only&quot; needs to support double digit billions of valuation to pull its weight inside of the company.
        • shoo12 hours ago
          &gt; there are no plans at all to improve the last mile infrastructure<p>The economics of laying fiber to the premises are heavily driven by density of potential customers * probability that a potential customer will sign up if you run fiber down their street. You can get reasonable intuition by focusing on the density alone &amp; ignoring the competition &#x2F; pricing side of things.<p>I&#x27;m not familiar with current US construction costs to install fiber but have some intuition from Australia.<p>With Australia&#x27;s national broadband network project from a decade or so ago, it&#x27;d cost in the ballpark of $100 AUD per meter to run fiber down the street in an underground trench - most of the capex is digging the holes in the ground etc, the cost of the cable itself is essentially free. The construction budget for a suburb would be something like $2000 &#x2F; premises. To give a ballpark estimate, suppose 25% of your budget is the premises-specific work to connect the house to the cable running down the street, if they choose to sign up for your broadband plan. That leaves at most $1500 &#x2F; premises for the rest of your capex budget, so the economics only work if you&#x27;ve got a neighbourhood with a density of least one house every 15 meters. Those numbers aren&#x27;t exact but they&#x27;d be in the ballpark.<p>There&#x27;s a bit of variability in the cost per meter to install, if you can reuse existing poles &amp; run the cable aerially that might be only 30%-40% of the cost of digging holes, so you might be able to support a lower density suburb that way &amp; still stick to your construction budget.<p>In Australia for the lower density rural &#x2F; semi-rural areas they&#x27;d use fixed wireless, &amp; finally satellite for the remote extremely low density areas where it didn&#x27;t even make sense to build a wireless tower.
          • tw198411 hours ago
            your numbers are completely meaningless.<p>it is well known that Australia has an extremely lazy workforce that refuse to put in any real work.<p>the best example here is the stupid residential building cost. nowadays it costs over $1m AUD or $700k USD do a first floor 2bedroom 1 bathroom extension for an existing house in good condition. That is significantly more expensive than building a big house in the US.
            • Alpha30319 hours ago
              I&#x27;m fairly sure there are also houses in Australia being built for less than $1m AUD given there are new houses being sold for less than $1m AUD with no indication those developers are making a loss.
              • tw19843 hours ago
                nice straw man, you can of course find houses below $1m when you go to regional areas where job opportunities simply do not exist. how about you just compare construction cost in Sydney with say those expensive part of the US, e.g. LA and SF?<p>let&#x27;s don&#x27;t even start on the quality of those new builds, that would be the laughing stock of the entire world.
                • Alpha30312 hours ago
                  Didn&#x27;t know Perth was a regional area now, my mistake.
        • consumer45119 hours ago
          I was only trying to talk about Starlink here, as that is what TFA is about. Starlink is AMAZING in-flight, out at sea, etc.. But since you brought it up:<p>&gt; Separately, from SpaceX&#x27;s own prospectus, Starlink is only a tiny fraction of the overall conglomerate that went public recently. It &quot;only&quot; needs to support double digit billions of valuation to pull its weight inside of the company.<p>So, where does the rest of the valuation come from?<p>It feels like it comes from the alien simulation-theory overlords.
          • 0xffff219 hours ago
            According to SpaceX itself 93% of the company&#x27;s value is in AI IIRC.
            • lokar14 hours ago
              99% of the value is goodwill towards musk
            • t-writescode14 hours ago
              God I hope not. That’s terrifying.
          • jordanb12 hours ago
            &gt; where does the rest of the valuation come from?<p>AI data centers in space, of course!
          • BurningFrog12 hours ago
            SpaceX is by far the most cost effective way in this world to send things into space.<p>That is <i>very</i> valuable.
            • Lomlioto6 hours ago
              No its not.<p>The payload we send to space is very limited and the 300% increase in the few last years was ONLY starlink itself.<p>Thats the issue Musk has to sell it to the investors and his idea is datacenter payload.<p>Just that he would need to send 300 Starships up there to even install a smallish datacenter like his own colossus 1.<p>Starship is not done yet, we have not seen it fly up there and return for 300 times at all.
              • BurningFrog11 minutes ago
                &quot;No it&#x27;s not&quot; replies and silent downvotes instead of arguments didn&#x27;t use to be how HN worked.<p>Sad to see this place becoming a normal web forum.
            • Alpha30319 hours ago
              Not according to their prospectus (which was what was asked about), where it accounted for slightly under 2% of SpaceX&#x27;s market.
      • tormeh15 hours ago
        There are areas where the bureaucratic hurdles to changing anything and the incentives for changing anything work out to nothing ever changing. I assume in 20 years most of Berlin is still going to have 50mbit&#x2F;s max. I hear residents of New York have completely given up and are using 5G modems because putting up new cables just isn&#x27;t practical. On the other hand, these cities do have a significant minority of flats with gigabit internet, so if you care you can pick a modern building with modern cabling. Maybe the segment who both live in old apartments <i>and</i> also are willing to pay for fast internet is too small to bother with.
        • Lomlioto6 hours ago
          While i would love to have 1 gb, 50mbit is not bad and every normal person i know of, wouldn&#x27;t call it bad at all or see it as an issue.<p>So not a problem
      • palmotea20 hours ago
        &gt; But there are a few places that will need Starlink, like planes, cruise ships, and islands. I&#x27;m just not sure if that will justify that $1T valuation.<p>There&#x27;s also drones and front-line trenches, but your point still stands.
        • luke544119 hours ago
          And for that reason the EU, India, China and Russia will build their own Starlink alternatives.<p>To offset costs they&#x27;ll then provide it for civilian use, competing with Starlink in the above areas.
          • numpad06 hours ago
            The problem with LEO constellation is wasted airtime outside of the country that owns it. Starlink just let anyone pay for the service irrespective of legality and let the leftovers go to waste, but most sane people can&#x27;t accept that model.<p>They just launch those sats, and straight up serve Internet illegally. Those are the bonkers parts.
          • ianm21819 hours ago
            India is super super poor still I cannot imagine they would build out domestic Starlink for hypothetical wars before other actual critical infrastructure.
            • wolvoleo15 hours ago
              They have nukes and are always on the verge of war with Pakistan (who also have nukes). I&#x27;m sure they have money for war, everyone always does.
            • triceratops13 hours ago
              They have an actual space program that launches actual satellites. They have also been in several actual, non-hypothetical wars.
              • tw198410 hours ago
                To launch a starlink style system, you need to be able to rapidly design and produce hundreds of thousands satellites and launch them within relatively short period of time with extremely high success rate. only the largest industrialized nation on earth can do that. india is 30-50 years away from such achievement.<p>To give you some quick ideas - for the total of 330 space launches in 2025, the US had almost 200, China had close to 100 launches, Russia had 17 launches, the rest of the world had the remaining 20 in total.
                • overfeed7 hours ago
                  India was the first country to reach Mars on its first attempt. ISRO is a highly capable org, <i>and</i> cost effective. India also was #4 to land on the moon after the USSR, USA and China - beating Japan to the punch. SpaceX is yet to deliver a payload to the moon or Mars - orbit or lander.
                  • wqaatwt7 hours ago
                    &gt; the first country to reach Mars on its first attempt<p>Well doing it decades later than others did help with that.
                    • triceratops36 minutes ago
                      How did that help them?<p>And how does it matter why they succeeded when the question is &quot;are they capable of doing a Starlink?&quot;?
                    • overfeed7 hours ago
                      How many[1] others? Not many countries can claim that achievement, industrialized or not, which is telling.<p>1. The answer is 3.: USA, USSR, and the European Space Agency
                      • wqaatwt6 hours ago
                        How many countries can claim the achievement of developing nuclear weapons? Does that make North Korea somehow an inherently more successful country than Germany?<p>Spending money on a space program while hundreds of millions of your citizens are living in extreme poverty is obscene (unless it provides significant economic value)
                        • triceratops22 minutes ago
                          &gt; Spending money on a space program while hundreds of millions of your citizens are living in extreme poverty is obscene<p>Why? According to Wikipedia they spend like $1.4b annually. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;ISRO" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;ISRO</a> That&#x27;s like an extra $10 for each of these citizens living in &quot;extreme poverty&quot;.<p>And what&#x27;s the cutoff? Like 10% of the US population is under the poverty line: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Poverty_in_the_United_States" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Poverty_in_the_United_States</a>. Is NASA &quot;obscene&quot; too? Granted that&#x27;s not the same as &quot;extreme poverty&quot; but it&#x27;s still a bad look in the richest country in the world, right?<p>&gt; unless it provides significant economic value<p>Investments in science and technology generally do. Rich countries are advanced in science and technology.
            • adityamwagh12 hours ago
              What makes you think india is &quot;super super&quot; poor? India&#x27;s GDP is humongous (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...</a>).
              • eldaisfish11 hours ago
                India&#x27;s total exports are in the same ballpark as the Netherlands, a country with half the population of the city of Bombay.<p>India may not be a poor country, but GDP doesn&#x27;t capture the real state of india&#x27;s wealth.
              • kortilla12 hours ago
                The denominator
              • antonvs12 hours ago
                The page you need to look at is GDP per capita:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...</a><p>…which lists India as #148, below countries like Zimbabwe, Haiti, Bangladesh, Cambodia, and Palestine.
                • triceratops10 hours ago
                  That only matters if you want to know how much an average individual can spend. Gross GDP is more relevant when you&#x27;re discussing how much the state could spend on defence programs.
            • luke544116 hours ago
              Same as Russia, yeah. But Reliance Jio seems to have announced something. Don&#x27;t know if it&#x27;ll actually happen.
              • ianm21815 hours ago
                Yeah who knows poor infrastructure might let India skip fiber in some areas entirely. Maybe it’s not that hard to launch a domestic Starlink if Blue Origin&#x2F; SpaceX will bring your satellites up cheaply .
          • drysine6 hours ago
            &gt;And for that reason the EU, India, China and Russia will build their own Starlink alternatives.<p>I don&#x27;t know about the rest, but Russia started working on its own Starlink well before the war. We have the North and Siberia where satellite internet is the only option. Another target market is Russian Railways which would love to have internet in the trains not only when they pass areas with mobile coverage.
      • leptons14 hours ago
        Not just cruise ships, but practically every boat with a bed in it. People sailing on small boats all around the world have starlink now. It&#x27;s kind of a game changer in a lot of ways for small boats.
      • roysting13 hours ago
        As with the data centers, starlink is not actually what people think it is. There’s a military purpose underlying its public front
    • dmix15 hours ago
      I have a friend who lives 1.5hrs outside Toronto and needs Starlink because ISPs don’t offer anything useful. Same with a family member with a house even closer to Toronto. These aren’t far off North Ontario rural houses and there’s tons of people living up there.
    • matwood38 minutes ago
      &gt; I don&#x27;t understand the huge upside for Starlink outside of Africa or India<p>You just said it yourself:<p>&gt; Then, only months later, but after years of planning:<p>Starlink is no replacement for fiber, but even all across the EU and the US there are many places without fiber access.
    • kakwa_6 hours ago
      Well, it has proven itself to be a very useful military asset in Ukraine.<p>The rural &amp; underdeveloped area and the niche applications (ex: ships and planes) will bring-in some cash.<p>And in addition, the US Army will pretty much guaranty it to be in the green: it wants this capability plus some control over it.<p>If it was civilian only, I doubt the economics would make much sense, specially given the amount of satellites and their short lifespan combined with the overall shrinking market (rural flight to cities + fiber deployment on land).
    • swingandamiss20 hours ago
      I have fiber (I can get up to 300 Gbps at my home in the Seattle area, but I got opted for the 2Gbps) and I have Starlink as backup&#x2F;failover. I previously used my mobile service for that but learned the hard way that when there&#x27;s a large internet outage in the area, as it did when we had a bad storm, so does mobile service, either power loss or it can&#x27;t support the influx of everyone using their phone internet. So now I have starlink as a backup. It&#x27;s a very small portable unit that I can also take when camping. It&#x27;s a great service. Also it&#x27;s powering a lot of airlines now, it&#x27;s fast and reliable to the point I can watch youtube and tiktok on my flights.
      • MostlyStable15 hours ago
        <i>300</i>Gbps? Is that typo? Unless you are connecting to some very particular infrastructure on the other one, nothing you could possibly connect to could use it, and you would need gear that would be somewhat high end even for server grade.<p>(I know you said you didn&#x27;t select that option, but just the idea that it&#x27;s even offered to residential units is mind blowing).
        • swingandamiss13 hours ago
          No, not a typo. Ziply has 300 Gbps at my house if I want to pay $900 a month. Instead I pay $65 for 2 Gbps
          • SXX11 hours ago
            You likely meant 50 Gbps as its what come up on their website and some recent US fibre discussions.<p>In any case even 50Gbps likely a huge part of their total throughput and you wont be abble to use it at full speed. So its pure marketing.
        • minitoar14 hours ago
          Usually there is a 300 Mbps - 10 Gbps range of offerings.
      • consumer45119 hours ago
        That was my thinking as well here in EU farmland. I would use it as a backup. I really wanted to have an excuse to use the cool af Starlink tech. However, after half a decade the fiber has gone down 3 times, and I just shared my iPhone&#x27;s LTE as a hotspot in 2 cases, and in the third I did yard work for 20 minutes.
    • freakynit10 hours ago
      From India here:<p>With their current pricing, they can&#x27;t compete with local vendors. These local vendors charge like $10&#x2F;month for 100-200mbps (vendor&#x2F;bundle dependent) speeds, with no data-capping. For just $5 extra, they also bundle 20+ OTT channels, including netflix and prime video (HD only).<p>And yes, fiber connections are everywhere here for past 5 years... and I&#x27;m from a very small town here.
    • givemeethekeys14 hours ago
      In much of the US, internet companies run a racket. While there are often multiple providers to choose from, if you want reliable service at good speeds, you end up with two, or if you&#x27;re really lucky, three options. One of those options is Starlink.
      • afavour12 hours ago
        In NYC we’re often only wired for one provider. 5G home internet was a big deal in finally opening up that competition.
    • afavour12 hours ago
      I think that while Starlink is a technical innovation its primary benefit is as a political innovation: it lets you sidestep a lot of politics.<p>Rural communities in the US should have high speed internet, just like efforts were made to give them electricity back in the day. But the layers of politics and dysfunction in the way are deep.
      • dtagames11 hours ago
        If we can get internet from the sky, it&#x27;s hard to justify digging up the earth with cables for the same thing.<p>I realize Space X &quot;pollutes&quot; space and astronomy is also important, but it&#x27;s not more important than communications and information for people on earth.
        • afavour10 hours ago
          I disagree, maintaining a giant fleet of satellites is almost certainly more expensive in the long run than just running a lot of cable. Not that cable doesn’t need maintenance but Starlink needs to replace every satellite every five years. And they can’t recycle a thing, they just burn up.<p>You’re presenting a false choice. It isn’t “Starlink or no internet”, it’s “why not other internet options?”
          • inemesitaffia3 minutes ago
            More expensive for whom?
          • consensus18 hours ago
            A v2 Starlink satellite costs $800K and on average 25 are launched at once. Launch cost for a reusable Falcon 9 is $15 million. So that&#x27;s $1.4 million per satellite to orbit lasting 5 years that&#x27;s $280K &#x2F; sat &#x2F; y, or $2.8 billion &#x2F; y to maintain a constellation of 10,000. And SpaceX is not known for complacency. The unit cost will continue to drop.<p>On the other hand there are currently $63 billion (22.5 years of Starlink cost) of rural broadband subsidies active in the US and it hasn&#x27;t come close to running all that fiber. So $63 billion to not even finish the US vs $2.8b &#x2F; y to provide service to the entire world. I think it&#x27;s safe to conclude that the satellite option is in fact much cheaper.
            • inemesitaffia2 minutes ago
              600k excluding launch
            • afavour1 hour ago
              &gt; provide service to the entire world<p>If the entire world used Starlink it would grind to a halt. They’d need to spend exponentially more to have more satellites to provide that necessary bandwidth.
            • Lomlioto6 hours ago
              Starlink has 10 MILLION customers. Thats just nothing.<p>All the investment in Fiber and mobile towers are long lasting investments.<p>Starlink NEEDS v3 to scale because they already have scaling issues. They need Starship, which doesn&#x27;t work yet, to work to even send v3 up there.<p>And while Spacex has some first mover advantage, other companies start doing the same which will eat their margins. Makes it even more complicated to run all of it.<p>They have to do 300k orbit correction already last year, kessler syndrom can happen which will block access to space for all of us.<p>We don&#x27;t even know yet how dangerous the poisoning of our atmosphere will be.
        • Lomlioto6 hours ago
          Its very easy to dig.<p>You still need a powerline to your house, sewer and water.<p>There are plenty of fibers and dark fibers on power pools.<p>Starlink doesn&#x27;t &#x27;just&#x27; pollute the night sky for EVERY SINGLE HUMAN (8 Billion people) it can also poisen our atmosphere when they re-enter and burn up.
        • m46310 hours ago
          Assuming there are poles (or trenches) for electricity, cable is a modest addition.
      • m46310 hours ago
        I think that&#x27;s the idea of robust competition.<p>if the incumbent(s) don&#x27;t invest in infrastructure (which can actually be cheap) and start losing customers at 3mb to starlink, they can justify the expenditure.
      • consensus19 hours ago
        [flagged]
    • me551ah9 hours ago
      I don’t know why India is mentioned here.<p>I live in India and have used 1Gbps Fiber since almost 10 years and pay only 40$ for it. Internet access in India is quite cheap and fiber is quite easily available
    • xutopia20 hours ago
      I have a really good friend who used Starlink for his cottage in Canada and as soon as there was broadband he switched away. Starlink was unreliable and slow compared to what he has now.<p>In my country today the people who use it the most are in northern cities that don&#x27;t even have roads going to them.
      • qup19 hours ago
        I have it, I live in a very rural place.<p>I&#x27;ve had to reset the router 3 or 4 times in two years. I don&#x27;t suffer outages even in thunderstorms.<p>It may be slow compared to fiber or something, but it&#x27;s the fastest steam game downloads I&#x27;ve ever had personally (no big city life).<p>But reliability has been almost 100%
      • m46310 hours ago
        I wonder if that was at the beginning. They&#x27;ve been quietly launching so many satellites over time.
      • brianwawok15 hours ago
        Unreliable usually means not a clear signal? May have needed to adjust the install.
      • kortilla12 hours ago
        He probably had it pointed at trees. It was super reliable for me when I worked from a rural location in Maine for a couple of months.
    • tyjen15 hours ago
      There&#x27;s many isolated communities abroad that benefit from this coverage. Plus, when I begin my solo sailing adventure, I intend to use Starlink as my primary method to maintain contact, of course with traditional methods serving as backup.
      • tasty_freeze15 hours ago
        The sailing-around-the-world (and similar) market is obviously miniscule. The isolated communities probably tend to be on the less affluent part of the world, so it doesn&#x27;t seem to justify a 100x expansion.
        • lumost14 hours ago
          I think the theory is that they can expand the infrastructure enough that conventional fiber etc. stops being competitive.
          • lokar14 hours ago
            I don’t see how. Maybe someone here can attempt the napkin math. But the satellites have much shorter lifespans than fiber.
            • hedora13 hours ago
              We have starlink. It’s better than a lot of ISPs we’ve had. I think of them as the new hughes.net. If you are worse than them, you go out of business.<p>They can’t remotely repeat with local ISPs now that fiber is being rolled out.<p>Starlink: I have spent 4-5 days debugging cables because in some ketamine fueled manic episode, elon thought he could do better than RJ-45.<p>Local ISP: “We’ll be happy to run fiber and new ethernet through your existing network conduits, trench to the curb, and help bodge in active poe ethernet repeaters for runs that are too long.”<p>Edit: As for satellite light pollution, yeah, that sucks, but it’s something like 0.001% (if that) of the problems we have because Silicon Valley tech campuses stay lit up like Christmas trees all night. (And those are probably dwarfed by porch lights, street lights, etc.).<p>We’re in one of the darkest spots in the region and can pretty much always walk around without lights at night. Seriously, how bright do you need unoccupied spaces in the cities to be at night?
              • lukeschlather12 hours ago
                &gt; Local ISP: “We’ll be happy to run fiber and new ethernet through your existing network conduits, trench to the curb, and help bodge in active poe ethernet repeaters for runs that are too long.”<p>I live in a major metro with a half a dozen apartments constructed within a block of me while I&#x27;ve lived here and this is very much not the case. I call them, they say they&#x27;ll be happy too and then they ghost me. Of course I also can&#x27;t get Starlink.
                • vel0city11 hours ago
                  &gt; I live in a major metro with a half a dozen apartments constructed within a block of me<p>Good chance Starlink (or any satellite-based internet for that matter) probably won&#x27;t do well for you either tbh. Too many clients in too tight of an area all fighting for such a small slice of bandwidth and birds overhead.
              • lokar13 hours ago
                My area has both ATT fiber and the local cable service. Both fast and reasonably (for the US) priced.<p>My neighbor has starlink. Very weird.
        • NetMageSCW15 hours ago
          How about the sea traffic and jet plane market?
          • Ekaros14 hours ago
            About 36 thousand planes and 105 thousand of 100 tonnes ships (not a lot) or 57 thousand of over 1000 tonnes ships...<p>At what ever unit economic price... That is not exactly massive market globally.
          • halfmatthalfcat15 hours ago
            What about them?
      • Lomlioto6 hours ago
        This is great right? Lets pollute our sky for 8 Billion people that tyjen can send a whatsapp message to people while sailing.<p>Awesome!
      • bergie15 hours ago
        Starlink has worked great for us so far from Europe to Polynesia. Prices keep going up, so would be nice if the service had actual competition.<p>The backups are sadly becoming trickier, as fewer and fewer carry SSB radios or operate shore stations.<p>And yet we do have SSB, and also an Inreach as backups. You never know when Elon wakes up and decides he doesn&#x27;t like sailors.
    • anakaine10 hours ago
      Australian here. We generally have 1st world internet for most towns. The moment you are outside suburbia, speeds are embarrassingly slow. On my own farm, we dont even have power, or city water, and little to no mobile &#x2F; cellular reception. We are like hundreds of thousands of other people with rural property here. I suspect the same is true in New Zealand, much of South America, Pacific Islands, Indian Ocean Islands, rural Canada, and often times rural USA.
    • wmf20 hours ago
      Many places have incompetent government that can&#x27;t&#x2F;won&#x27;t build proper infrastructure. For example, the US has allocated around $50B for rural broadband and almost nothing has been built.
      • s1artibartfast13 hours ago
        1 billion of that rural broadband funds was allocated to SpaceX, but the Biden administration revoked it in 2020. I wonder which has connected more rural Americans
        • wmf13 hours ago
          Obviously Starlink has connected far more Americans than unbuilt rural fiber. Starlink did get $730M in BEAD grants more recently.
        • grahamburger11 hours ago
          I don&#x27;t think you have that right; BEAD funds were not originally allowed to be awarded for technologies other than Fiber. No one had been awarded in 2020. Many ISPs had been awarded for Fiber projects by 2025, but under this administration, the NTIA changed the rules so LEO could get the funds and rug pulled the original awardees. States had to start the bidding process over under the new rules. SpaceX took home something like a billion dollars at that point (it pays to make large campaign donations, I guess!). Projects should finally get underway later this fall in most states.
          • wmf11 hours ago
            s1artibartfast is correct; Starlink was awarded RDOF money that was later rescinded.
            • grahamburger11 hours ago
              Ah, fair. I read BEAD in another comment and conflated the two.
    • rayiner11 hours ago
      Fiber deployment is bottlenecked by Baumol&#x27;s Cost Disease: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Baumol_effect" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Baumol_effect</a>. There&#x27;s basically no productivity gains being made in how quickly skilled laborers can deploy fiber. Like everything else involving skilled labor, the price keeps going up.
    • ghoul220 hours ago
      India really has very deep penetration of 5g, and at very low cost. There might be a rare place that starlink might be needed but really I cannot image starlink having much consumer&#x2F;retail uptake in india. Not needed, and too expensive. There might be commercial users - offshore rigs etc, but india is too densely populated for there to be many &#x27;truly remote&#x27; locations.<p>India has still not permitted starlink to start ops.
    • gucci-on-fleek11 hours ago
      In Europe, even rural areas tend to be fairly close to cities, whereas in North America, lots of farms are <i>really</i> remote. This map from NASA [0] should give you an idea of how remote some areas can be.<p>Now, 99% of these areas have electricity from the grid and analogue phone lines, so there&#x27;s no reason why we couldn&#x27;t also run fibre out to them, but for political reasons that&#x27;s fairly unlikely to happen anytime soon.<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;assets.science.nasa.gov&#x2F;content&#x2F;dam&#x2F;science&#x2F;esd&#x2F;eo&#x2F;images&#x2F;imagerecords&#x2F;79000&#x2F;79765&#x2F;dnb_land_ocean_ice.2012.13500x6750.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;assets.science.nasa.gov&#x2F;content&#x2F;dam&#x2F;science&#x2F;esd&#x2F;eo&#x2F;i...</a>
    • plantain9 hours ago
      Subsidies make anything possible. Your grandkids will be paying for that fibre. Starlink is revolutionary for long last-mile links that will never be economic.
    • wodenokoto8 hours ago
      Outside of war, ships and planes, I agree with you, that their benefit doesn’t seem like all that.<p>But then again, I never thought WiFi would take over wired network cables, but now even my desktop is connected with WiFi.<p>I also didn’t think cellular would be a replacement for copper or fiber, but now my modem for the apartment is 5G.<p>Both ended up being good enough, easier and cheaper (!)
    • crossroadsguy9 hours ago
      I&#x27;d agree with the last part of your comment. Because at least India doesn&#x27;t depend upon Starlink for broadband access. Even in remote regions, now that it has seen first hand what modern economic and tech blockade means (after struggling for decades with older sanctions including related to nuclear tests and thank goodness it did that), it really isn&#x27;t very keen on Starlink and wants home-grown alternatives (which definitely will take time) and also is now indicating to multiple players that they are welcome (but within limits and regulations).<p>Musk isn&#x27;t pushing Starlink for &quot;upside&quot; for the people or your &quot;central EU&quot;, or Africa, or India, or the moon (let&#x27;s just assume for the time being), Musk is hoping to saturate the market and remain the only player or only major player, and Musk wants that perceived dependency as a weapon, as a tool of control. I won&#x27;t be shocked if Musk later lobbies for &quot;ah, too many satellites up there already.. it&#x27;d be dangerous to send more… &quot;. In fact I am counting on that.<p>&gt; where they have &lt;.1% the money<p>That&#x27;s another part where, again, I&#x27;d agree with the last part of your comment. That country has so many people that just from one region if enough rich people (and sadly with the great divide there are way too many), if they need it, it will outspend too many countries from Europe single-handedly when it comes to Starlink or satellite Internet access.<p>Having said that, these things are not this black and white… but I&#x27;ve tried at least one part, or rather a fraction of one part I&#x27;d say.<p>Satellite Internet is one of the best things I&#x27;d say but I&#x27;d bet my spare kidney that not in the hands of Musk and Musk is trying hard that he&#x2F;Starlink becomes the almost single player, first mover etc etc.
    • khurs20 hours ago
      &gt; I don&#x27;t understand the huge upside for Starlink outside of Africa or India, where they have &lt;.1% the money to spend on such things.<p>Starlink has a Military arm called Starshield. If strategically important to US military and other militaries who are partners of the USA, that will be many millions&#x2F;billions.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.spacex.com&#x2F;starshield" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.spacex.com&#x2F;starshield</a>
    • servo_sausage14 hours ago
      Its also a pricing thing; in Australia our nationalised provider keeps getting more expensive, starlink is now getting cost-competitive.
      • sen14 hours ago
        Stop using Telstra then. There’s an abundance of NBN resellers who sell better packages for cheaper than Telstra. At this point Telstra is just for old people who don’t want to change the services they’ve always been with.
        • servo_sausage8 hours ago
          If you compare 100&#x2F;40 plans to starlink, starlink is about 10aud more over the best reseller promotion I can see, but has the occasional promotion; and getting cheaper.<p>If you are churning plans anyway, and that&#x27;s the speed you want, you should have starlink in the mix.<p>I fully expect the NBN wholesale to keep getting more expensive, while I expect satellite providers to get cheaper.
    • usui20 hours ago
      Recently I flew on a long-distance (so at least a dozen hours of flight time) low-budget airline that had 60 Mbps download&#x2F;12 Mbps upload and it specifically called out SpaceX Starlink for being able to provide this for free. A video call went smoothly. There was connectivity from takeoff to landing with no interruption in between. This was the best airline experience I&#x27;ve had yet.
      • consumer45120 hours ago
        OK, so for this, Starlink is AMAZING! In-flight Starlink is undeniable.<p>The first time I experienced it, I could not believe what was happening. I messaged my nerd friends with screenshots of <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;speed.cloudflare.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;speed.cloudflare.com&#x2F;</a><p>Also, their required zero-friction UX is the shiznit.<p>Then, I fell asleep as I finally had theoretical time off.
      • sixtyj20 hours ago
        I’ve read so many posts from both CEOs and programmers about their higher in-flight productivity thanks to be offline.
        • brianwawok15 hours ago
          It used to be one of the best parts of a cruise, a week without internet! But it’s pretty decent these days
      • deaton19 hours ago
        I flew Delta about 6 months ago and they had something similar, also for free, but they use Viasat. I think most of the big airlines were moving this way anyway to be honest, Starlink just has a good opportunity for advertising.
        • matwood23 minutes ago
          Gate to gate (if the plane door is closed) wifi has been a thing for most (all?) of the US airlines for awhile. Delta&#x27;s wifi is ok, but I routinely have issues. It could be a combination of older technology on the plane and worse satellite network, but it&#x27;s supposedly nowhere near as good as plane with Starlink.<p>I also use Starlink at my house in Italy. I&#x27;m in a decent sized town, but there is no fiber available. It has worked great, and more importantly took about 10 minutes to setup.
        • postingawayonhn15 hours ago
          Starlink speed and bandwidth is way ahead of any of the existing satellite internet providers.
        • usui19 hours ago
          I believe Viasat internet satellites are placed in geostationary orbit, whereas SpaceX Starlink is not, so the service Viasat provides is already blown out.
        • laughing_man7 hours ago
          Long latency makes Viasat good for some things and not so good for others.
      • basisword20 hours ago
        And this is exactly why we don&#x27;t need internet on planes.
        • ceejayoz20 hours ago
          Yeah, planes are noisy enough without making them into a call center cubicle farm.
          • jen2010 hours ago
            Voice and video calls are both outlawed in the US by the DOT.
    • miyuru8 hours ago
      I am from Sri Lanka, which is a large island.<p>We have a smaller number of ISPs due to the cost of submarine cables, and ISP prices were high due to profit-seeking. After Starlink came, the incumbent ISPs started to offer unlimited packages for the first time.<p>Also, Starlink is good as a backup connection for rural areas too.
    • gwbas1c19 hours ago
      It&#x27;s very popular in rural US where running wired broadband is cost prohibitive.<p>There are many parts of the US that are very spread out, and thus running wires to every home is expensive without subsidies.
      • derektank7 hours ago
        Exactly. Central Europe is one of the most densely populated regions on the planet outside of Asia. High population density makes fiber more economical, and low population density, the inverse. As other la have pointed out, India actually has very deep fiber penetration exactly for this reason. The Americas, by contrast, are largely devoid of people which makes the economics of any networking infrastructure harder
      • Freedumbs19 hours ago
        Right the areas that companies took money to roll out high speed internet to, then just kept the money and called DSL high speed or just did nothing. The government should keep giving companies money and investing in them. It&#x27;s brilliant.
    • onlypassingthru15 hours ago
      Elon turning off Russian access to Starlink by whitelisting only authorized terminals in the region was a turning point for Ukraine&#x27;s success. The conflict has proven that modern warfare depends on Starlink and its mimics.
      • mighty_plant8 hours ago
        Some day before invading Taiwan China and Russia will try to take them all down: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;AMIxX" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;AMIxX</a>
      • rush8699915 hours ago
        China has a huge microwave to destroy any kind of Starlink over its head.
        • t-writescode14 hours ago
          Citation Needed.<p>The specifics of an implementation of this are objectively absurd. Power requirements alone make this a non-starter. If that weren’t enough, it would be a declaration of war.
          • aidenn010 hours ago
            Not to mention they are spending an awful lot of money on developing anti-satellite missiles for having a working directed-energy weapon that can do the same.<p>I&#x27;m sure they are experimenting with directed-energy ASAT technology though, because why wouldn&#x27;t they?
        • sieabahlpark14 hours ago
          [dead]
    • bastawhiz15 hours ago
      Same. I bought a cabin, which had the equivalent of pretty good DSL. I got starlink and immediately cancelled it when 2gbps fiber arrived 9mo later. Fiber is rolling out faster than a lot of people think.
      • brianwawok15 hours ago
        Would fiber have come so fast without starlink as a threat though
        • triceratops13 hours ago
          Thanks Elon!
        • maxerickson14 hours ago
          What&#x27;s the reasoning? That people won&#x27;t switch away from the more expensive, slower, less reliable service if you get there a bit later?<p>Starlink isn&#x27;t wildly expensive, nor is it unreliable or slow, but it loses the comparisons.
          • christina9714 hours ago
            When a telco provides poor quality service somewhere, people have no choice but to pay them as price takers. When there are options, telcos have to provide better service to win your business. Telcos with monopolies have always been rent-seekers. It happens time and time again that some newcomer comes up, and just the hint of competition gets Verizon&#x2F;Spectrum&#x2F;etc to suddenly build new tech and dig some trenches.
            • blooalien13 hours ago
              ^^^ <i>Exactly</i> this. I live in just such an area (one where Cable and DSL providers successfully bribed local officials to get fiber blocked so the two of them could split the city between them). They&#x27;re both literally the <i>worst</i> Internet service providers I&#x27;ve ever had, but the <i>only</i> two choices besides insanely expensive celphone service providers.
            • maxerickson13 hours ago
              Spectrum here rolled out fiber when other companies did. I&#x27;m pretty sure it is because it is the same subsidized last mile fiber and not because they were inspired by competition.
          • nomel14 hours ago
            See the reason Google Fiber existed [1]. It wasn&#x27;t for a product, it was to kick the pants of all the monopolistic broadband providers. Now, you have similar motivation <i>on a global scale</i>.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gdt.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;whatever-happened-to-google-fiber&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gdt.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;whatever-happened-to-google-fiber&#x2F;</a>
            • Cyberdog10 hours ago
              How ironic that Google wanted to be a monopoly buster.
        • pclmulqdq13 hours ago
          Starlink was an attempt to grab the rural broadband funding that supported that fiber rollout in the US. It was too slow, so the money went to fiber and traditional ISPs instead. Fiber may well have come faster without starlink.
    • CrankyBear20 hours ago
      There are many places, even in the US, where your only alternative is--believe it or not--dial-up modems. Others had painfully slow--1 Mbps up, 5 Mbps down--Internet.
    • onion2k6 hours ago
      Fibre is better if you have a static point on land like a farm. It works less well if you&#x27;re in a moving vehicle or if you&#x27;re at sea.
    • slashdev13 hours ago
      It works on planes, ships, and in remote areas with no coverage. I live in Canada where the whole of Europe would fit many times over, nothing else would work in the remote areas at that scale. My parents live in Panama and use starlink to get reliable high speed internet at the beach. Even when the power goes out, their solar panels keep the internet online.
    • mFixman5 hours ago
      I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if the EU and ISPs are funding fibre to remote locations _because_ of Starlink competition.<p>Taxis and minicabs all over the world were unreliable, expensive, and unsafe before Uber came along with some healthy competition. The same dynamic is happening here between Starlink and rural fibre.
    • ssl-310 hours ago
      I have a good friend who relies upon Starlink for connectivity for his home in southeastern Ohio (USA).<p>We&#x27;ve worked through all of the other alternatives there, including using cellular modems with directional antennas mounted up high on a mast pipe and multi-carrier aggregation tricks like Speedify. There is no local WISP serving the area, no fiber, no coax for DOCSIS, and xDSL is either a bad joke, basically basically abandoned, or both in much of the US in 2026.<p>So far, Starlink is the win.<p>(I&#x27;m pleased to hear that things are better than that for you in your neck of the woods.)
    • Leynos6 hours ago
      From a purely utilitarian standpoint, direct to cell feels like a good thing to me. Large swathes of Scotland don&#x27;t even have sufficient mobile connection to send a text message (some people will tell you that&#x27;s a good thing, but I&#x27;m not one of them).
    • rzerowan20 hours ago
      Eeh even ther its a stretch , when people talk about Africa - they should really specify where exactly. PLaces like SouthAfrica [1] already have a robust Fiber network with accelerated buildout of FTTH. Ditto for most of Eastern Africa countries which have FTTH to most of the major cities and subururbs with accelerated buildouts ongoing. Unless its a conflict area most regions are getting wired up pretty fast to enhancce business connectivity - the speeds and bandwith for starlink make noe economic sense once a developing pop are factored in.The only major push for many countries approvals is basically strong armed and shaken down by the US admin on behalf of Musk[2].<p>[1]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ctcommunications.co.za&#x2F;blog&#x2F;south-africa-fiber-rollout-2026" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ctcommunications.co.za&#x2F;blog&#x2F;south-africa-fiber-rollo...</a><p>[2]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tech.yahoo.com&#x2F;science&#x2F;articles&#x2F;us-pushes-nations-facing-tariffs-184114152.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tech.yahoo.com&#x2F;science&#x2F;articles&#x2F;us-pushes-nations-fa...</a>
    • heyheyhouhou3 hours ago
      Starlink is a military project, but they dont say that in public.
    • Sparkle-san20 hours ago
      I feel like no-earth orbit is always going to beat out low-earth orbit in the long-term. I live an area that the USDA classifies as rural and I now have multiple fiber options, including municipal. This isn&#x27;t to say that Starlink doesn&#x27;t have its place and I only see it becoming more niche over time and facing more competition in the LEO segment.
      • deaton20 hours ago
        I live in what is probably the first place to get these things in the world, but it feels like fiber is being built at an extremely rapid pace. Just in the past couple of years it seems like Google and AT&amp;T fiber went from being a relatively confined thing to being available everywhere in the city, and everywhere outside, and at my friend&#x27;s ranch 100 miles in the middle of nowhere. Everywhere.
        • ipdashc14 hours ago
          Given that fiber&#x27;s been around for literal decades, though, and the Internet hasn&#x27;t recently gotten more popular or anything, why would this suddenly have changed? I could believe what people are saying re. Starlink providing competition and finally incentivizing fiber buildouts
    • pcpuser6 hours ago
      I live in a major Indian city and 1 gig fiber up and down is $30. We&#x27;ve also got really good 4G&#x2F;5G in most places. Also in the super remote areas WiMAX is (still) an option.
    • yxhuvud6 hours ago
      I suppose one real upside is that in very regulated areas with only one operator this gives them some baseline regarding service that they actually need to beat.
    • Salgat13 hours ago
      Starlink is a problem that solves itself. If enough fiber rolls out that there&#x27;s no more customers, they&#x27;ll scale back satellites (since they only last 3-5 years).
      • magicalist11 hours ago
        Not if you&#x27;re a publicly traded company and that&#x27;s a major part of your revenue.
    • lowkey_20 hours ago
      Europe is too well-run (even the poorer parts) for Starlink to be as relevant.<p>Having lived in Central America, imagine all the workers that are laying the internet cables going back at night and digging them up to sell. A government that, 50% of the time, won&#x27;t actually build anything when given the funding, and usually can&#x27;t get the funding anyways. Plus, in some parts, weather can result in internet going out and, given the government, staying out for quite a while.<p>It&#x27;s a fair point that those in poorer places will have less money, but for instance, Mexico&#x27;s Starlink pricing is pretty standard, it&#x27;s like 50-100 EUR per month. They pay it anyways because they need it, and because it&#x27;s the best option.<p>Starlink is a great decentralization for anyone living under corrupt dysfunctional governments, where they can&#x27;t rely on that centralized system.
      • wolvoleo15 hours ago
        Who digs up fibres to sell? It&#x27;s worthless material. Copper yes but nobody lays that anymore. If it even has to be metal it&#x27;s usually mostly aluminium.
        • dylan60415 hours ago
          You&#x27;d be amazed at how unintelligent about things tweakers are. They don&#x27;t know it is fibre when they are taking it. It doesn&#x27;t keep all of the users on the other end of those lines from losing signal.
          • garbagewoman14 hours ago
            What are you basing this view on, sounds like you have personally seen this happen?
            • dylan60414 hours ago
              On multiple occasions I have had my fibre service go down because of this.
        • rjsw15 hours ago
          They dig up the fibre to check that it isn&#x27;t copper.
      • arpinum15 hours ago
        Starlink is popular in rural England. Trenching fibre to farmland isn&#x27;t economical and poor DSL is often the only other option.
      • joe_mamba15 hours ago
        <i>&gt;Europe is too well-run (even the poorer parts) for Starlink to be as relevant.</i><p>Except there&#x27;s rich parts like Germany or Austria where internet infra is poorly run due to monopolistic telco capture and regulations keeping infra upgrades costs high, and so have slower and more expensive internet than Starlink in some areas. Poorer nations of EU often have faster internet than the richer ones so poverty is not a reason.<p>So Starlink is definitely still relevant. I&#x27;ve seen several small&#x2F;medium businesses here in Austria that have a starlink terminal as a backup.
        • christina9714 hours ago
          Yes and just to add, the infra itself is pretty cheap. The cost comes from the labor and regulatory complexity. Budapest for instance has dirt cheap fibre just about everywhere.
    • nikvee1 hour ago
      How much did it cost to have fiber ran to your house from the road?
    • giancarlostoro10 hours ago
      People who live out in rural areas. Think farmers, or just people who love living out on their own lands, common enough in the US. I have a friend who lives off Starlink internet, it would cost way too much to get internet all the way to his property, not really worth it.
    • piloto_ciego9 hours ago
      Here in Alaska it’s literally better than the cable internet (except apparently for gaming but I don’t really game), and $10&#x2F;mo cheaper for a starlink roam.<p>At where we are building our cabin, it’s infinitely cheaper than the alternatives lol.
    • rahimnathwani7 hours ago
      How much did EU taxpayers spend to make that possible?
      • mrtksn7 hours ago
        Very little, EU budget is minuscule - something like 500 euros per person per year.
        • rahimnathwani3 hours ago
          The annual per capita EU budget doesn&#x27;t tell us how much was spent to bring fiber to that particular rural area.
          • mrtksn2 hours ago
            It’s definitely less than 500 pp even if they spent all of it on this.
    • SilverSlash10 hours ago
      One place where fiber cables cannot reach would be... way up in the air. Think about how many people fly each day and then remember how poor internet connectivity and speeds are at 40,000 ft.<p>So Starlink in flights seems like a perfect fit.
    • biztos9 hours ago
      Here in rural USA, we were paying $150 for very slow DSL, and now we&#x27;re paying about $50 for quite fast Starlink.<p>In Asia I was paying $50 for very fast fiber, but that was in a major city; out at the farm you&#x27;re on the mobile networks. So if I build a house out there and can do Starlink, I will do it.<p>Plus, there&#x27;s the whole Starlink Roam thing: in California this summer, I see more and more vans with the little Starlink rectangle on top. &quot;Work from Campsite&quot; is pretty compelling, honestly.
    • out_of_protocol19 hours ago
      There&#x27;s a lot of places without fiber, e.g. all the ships&#x2F;jets etc. there&#x27;s a lot of low-density areas, there&#x27;s islands with no internet or VERY expensive internet
      • kibwen15 hours ago
        Ships and jets are different segments from residential. Planes are definitely a textbook use case for satellite internet, but just like airlines are in a race-to-the-bottom for everything from in-flight snacks to legroom, they&#x27;re not going to spring for premier high-quality internet service, they&#x27;re just going to scrape by with the bare minimum. The market potential is not spectacularly impressive. Meanwhile, for residential services, rural areas continue to shrink, the people remaining in rural areas tend to be poorer, and the rural areas where rich people live have fiber, because the rich people can pay for it. Satellite internet will remain a crucial service for certain rural populations, but it&#x27;s not going to take over the world, and it&#x27;s not going to justify an order of magnitude more launches. Let&#x27;s stop beating around the bush: the bull case for both Starlink and SpaceX is that the US military sees them as indispensible military assets, the former for global logistics, and the latter for the rapid weaponization of space.
        • NetMageSCW14 hours ago
          Airlines are already springing for Starlink and can’t charge their customers for it.
          • kibwen33 minutes ago
            Costs get passed on to the consumer. You&#x27;re paying for it in higher ticket prices, which is where the race to the bottom comes in.
    • mooktakim15 hours ago
      The obvious is the cost of deploying. You don&#x27;t need to dig to add cable. Full country coverage. Worldwide customers.
      • consumer45115 hours ago
        I agree with that, but it&#x27;s great for a greenfield project&#x2F;area. Say, Mars or very high and low latitudes, or ships&#x2F;airplanes.<p>However, once you are in an area of &quot;civilization,&quot; there is not only an opportunity for fiber, but also maybe the locals don&#x27;t want a foreign power controlling your citizens&#x27; data access. India + China = 35% of the global population, and Starlink is not legal in either place.<p>Meanwhile, the free speech absolutist is focused on breaking up the ~5.4% of the globe, (EU) where Starlink is legal.
        • mooktakim15 hours ago
          Yes, but those are different reasons. Eventually we&#x27;ll have many different providers offering LEO internet. Competition is the best way to solve this. The benefits of LEO internet is obvious.
          • consumer45114 hours ago
            &gt; The benefits of LEO internet is obvious.<p>No, I disagree, maybe. The terrestrial Internet was literally designed to route around a nuclear war. That was its initial purpose, was it not?<p>Starlink needs ground stations, which are visible from orbit, and can be Shaheded... unless every Starlink terminal can also become a down-link.. which would be cool. However, then it all still relies on terrestrial fiber, right? Or, then that would be a Starlink-only WAN?<p>I don&#x27;t want to call out a specific HN&#x27;er, but he is an HN hero. Years ago, in person, he told me he was bored. I tried to convince him to work for Starlink in Redmond, as what could be cooler than working on an entire new satellite laser-based Internet 2 backbone?! This was back when GMaps labeled that office &quot;A Place of Worship.&quot;<p>I failed at that, because he probably saw that the entire concept was questionable. My point here is that this is all very complicated, and while Starlink is the coolest tech in my lifetime, it still relies on terrestrial fiber in the end.<p>Please, help me work through this. I am likely very confused.
            • ACCount375 hours ago
              Starlink can now jump the connections satellite to satellite, and curve them around the planet. You need to knock out not just the nearest ground station but also the stations the traffic can be rerouted to for the constellation to be meaningfully degraded. Stations that are spread across multiple countries and continents.<p>In which case, yes, SpaceX can also spin up new makeshift ground stations using off the shelf user terminals.<p>The current ground stations use specialized transceivers, but that&#x27;s an efficiency improvement, not a fundamental limitation.<p>&gt; I failed at that, because he probably saw that the entire concept was questionable.<p>There&#x27;s a lesson there: if you think you understand a bleeding edge emerging technology better than Musk does, think again. Think for a long time - maximum reasoning effort.<p>It&#x27;s not impossible that you truly are, but it is unlikely.
            • mooktakim14 hours ago
              Internet routing around nuclear war not because it&#x27;s cable but it&#x27;s because it&#x27;s an inter connected network (ie &quot;internet&quot;). Meaning there&#x27;s multiple routes to the same destination.
    • Baeocystin14 hours ago
      I live in the suburbs in the bay area in California, and starlink offers a significantly better quality of service than charter spectrum cable service, which is my only other option. Considering the current state of our government, I don&#x27;t see things improving anytime soon.
      • mullingitover14 hours ago
        Crazy, I didn&#x27;t realize starlink is in the gigabit range for bandwidth? And how are they getting past the speed of light wall on their latency?
        • Baeocystin13 hours ago
          They aren&#x27;t, at least not yet. It&#x27;s more a reflection of how bad internet service is in places you wouldn&#x27;t think it would be, at least here in the states. My as-advertised gigabit cable service slows to an utter crawl around Netflix O&#x27;Clock, And multi-hour+ outages are a regular occurrence.<p>Regarding latency, starlink satellites are low enough that it just isn&#x27;t an issue.
          • mullingitover10 hours ago
            I had a hilarious interaction with a Spectrum technician when I was dealing with an oversubscribed node with my home service (same issue you&#x27;re describing here).<p>He was a line tech and was fully aware that my slowness wasn&#x27;t related to the line, and as he replaced all the lines to my house he enthusiastically recommended that I report the company to the FTC and demand a refund for the service degradation which wasn&#x27;t meeting their advertised speeds. He actually gave me great advice for getting my case escalated and I was refunded for several months on my service.<p>They eventually got the node upgraded (I was once struggling to get 60Mbps down on the same line I&#x27;m getting &gt;1G on today), and they&#x27;re upgrading everything to DOCSIS 4.0 currently. I&#x27;m not trying to sell you on them, just saying they&#x27;ll likely work their problems out in the long run. Fundamentally, coax line connection&#x27;s floor is Starlink&#x27;s ceiling as long as the nodes are able to keep up.
    • dfee20 hours ago
      i live a few miles west of core Palo Alto (technically, still in Palo Alto); Starlink is my only real choice for broadband, and it&#x27;s great.
    • m46319 hours ago
      one difference is that fiber isn&#x27;t mobile.<p>Though all these satellites might give fixed-location folks higher bandwidth, they could also service many more concurrent mobile customers. Connectivity would probably be better too because more satellites would be in view.<p>Also, don&#x27;t underestimate the benefit of robust competition, even if you don&#x27;t use starlink.
      • spwa418 hours ago
        The price difference for mobile satellite service is rather substantial though.
    • anonzzzies13 hours ago
      I am also in rural EU and have 1 house that has fiber, and another, 10 minute drive away has nothing, not even cell signal and it won&#x27;t get anything any time soon. Starlink is basically the only option.
    • abroadwin11 hours ago
      I live in an area of the US where the only alternatives are 3.5 megabit DSL which stops working when it rains or Hughesnet, so basically no real competition at all.
    • jandhdhshhh10 hours ago
      Most people hate Comcast’s and att duopoly so much that’s reason enough to get starlink. I just got it in ca and it works very well
    • zitterbewegung11 hours ago
      In America for my lifetime I have never been able to get fiber and it’s because America is too large and I live in an affluent suburb.
      • smashed11 hours ago
        Lack of competition is the reason. Not the size of the country. Especially in a suburb.
    • hiAndrewQuinn8 hours ago
      It&#x27;s closer to only 10% the money to spend on such things, and that gap is closing rapidly. The poorest African countries these days still have a GDP in the low thousands per capita, and poorish central Europe trends to have low tens of thousands per capita. I could see 5 families in rural west Africa or something deciding to pool their funds to get one shared Starlink connection if they didn&#x27;t have cheaper internet available some other way.<p>Moreover the utility of internet connection faces an extreme amount of diminishing returns - hear me out on this. You can very easily download an entire plaintext book on a subject you need to study up on in a few seconds with even a 100 Kbps connection, from any where and for any reason, and that&#x27;s <i>immensely</i> valuable if previously you didn&#x27;t have access to it before. You can&#x27;t stream YouTube on it, but a YouTube instructional victory makes whatever you&#x27;re doing merely easier, not possible.<p>WhatsApp and text messages, as well. It&#x27;s very cheap to send a couple bytes back and forth to coordinate eg local market prices in fish, and so if you and a couple buddies team up to get one starlink connection you can very quickly tear the volatility of your local first market prices to shreds. I&#x27;m extrapolating from an earlier study that found just such an effect after cell phones were introduced to rural areas.<p>I guess my overall point is don&#x27;t rule out the transformative effects that a few <i>very reliable</i> low bandwidth connections can have on an area. If the Romans discovered AM radio (possible given their late tech) we&#x27;d probably all still be speaking Latin, even though they couldn&#x27;t play Fortnite.
    • jorisboris9 hours ago
      Maybe it’s about the power to control the internet (and what is does and doesn’t serve) worldwide.
    • anukin14 hours ago
      India has one of the fastest and cheapest internet in the world. In fact you can get an extremely fast download atop Himalayan mountains in comparison to remote USA
    • jofzar7 hours ago
      I have a friend who does not live that remote in Australia and his choice is either &quot;satellite&quot; internet or starlink.<p>It&#x27;s not even a choice because &quot;skymuster&quot; (the satellite option) can&#x27;t even be considered internet. I remember him taking about getting 7 seconds of latency at one point. It&#x27;s actually impressive how terrible it is.
    • SequoiaHope14 hours ago
      Not all of us live in places with EU funding. I worked at a rural farm in California and the EU refused to fund our network infrastructure. We had few reliable options, and Starlink turned out to be the best.
    • quantummagic10 hours ago
      Everyone at sea, uses them now.
    • wyager9 hours ago
      &gt; EU funding brought fiber to my farm area<p>Yes, boondoggle subsidies allow you to un-economically bring fiber to a subset of random places. I say this as the beneficiary of one such boondoggle. It doesn&#x27;t scale well
    • skor7 hours ago
      seems like starlink is useful for armed conflicts
    • jordanb15 hours ago
      This was always the sour economics of satellite internet.<p>Satellite internet works for a low density of customers spread evenly across the globe. But customers are not spread evenly they mostly live in megalopolist regions that can be served more efficiently with land infrastructure.<p>Worse most of the people not in the megalopolists have less money to spend on internet services.<p>So your customer base are limited to people who aren&#x27;t already served by better&#x2F;cheaper terrestrial internet, but who can pay for better internet.<p>Those people exist but the history of satellite internet service hasn&#x27;t been a massive money printer. Most providers have struggled to stay solvent let alone produce great returns for shareholders.<p>Paul Allen wanted to build a megaconstellation back in the 1990s but then Iridium went bankrupt twice.<p>Iridium ended up being rescued by the US military. I wonder if this is ultimately SpaceX&#x27;s plan.
    • flanked-evergl6 hours ago
      I live in Norway. Starlink is cheaper than FTTH by a country mile. At the very least it&#x27;s going to force down prices for fiber providers.<p>Also just because FTTH exists does not mean it&#x27;s reliable.
    • Mikhail_Edoshin12 hours ago
      This is a military tech.
    • dartharva7 hours ago
      India? LOL, India has internet connectivity of scale the kind most other countries couldn&#x27;t dream of. Though most of it, sadly, is IPV4 and concentrated in oligopolies (which for now are still &quot;generous&quot; enough to give us 5G for cheap).
    • drysine8 hours ago
      &gt; the huge upside for Starlink outside of Africa or India<p>Which together have four times more people than the EU. Needs of the many outweigh, you know
    • dyauspitr8 hours ago
      India? It has the world’s cheapest data rates and nearly 90% of the population have 5G coverage. They don’t need this.
    • consensus19 hours ago
      I suspect what is going on is just a matter of relative density. I&#x27;m not sure what you mean exactly by &quot;central EU,&quot; but just guessing from a map I get Romania as the least population dense country that I would think of as Central Europe at 83 &#x2F; km3. That is more than double the US pop density and if it were a US state only 15 out of 50 would be more dense. So then taking the least population dense region of the least dense country I get Tulcea with 23 &#x2F; km3. That&#x27;s 66% of the density of the US (37) which would come in at 34 &#x2F; 50 if it were a US state.<p>So the most sparsely populated region of the most sparsely populated country in Central Europe is just a bit below average for the US. Our least dense state is Alaska at 0.5 &#x2F; km3 or almost 50x less dense than that. But that&#x27;s almost cheating. So lets take mainland only and that&#x27;s Wyoming, with 2.3, so 10x less densely populated than the outlier in Central Europe.<p>So basically the US is just really damn empty to the point there just isn&#x27;t any comparison in Central Europe and that&#x27;s why it&#x27;s so hard to get internet access out there.
    • therobots92720 hours ago
      24&#x2F;7 high fidelity radar of the entire earth’s surface. Probably used by NRO’s sentient system and similar classified skynet projects
    • game_the0ry15 hours ago
      Elon is probably setting sup the infra for space data centers.
    • kylehotchkiss11 hours ago
      India can lay some fiber. The secret is that every time a road gets repaved it gets dug up a week later so easy conduit pathway.<p>(Citation: lived in Gurugram for a few years where I witnessed the same 100ft of sidewalk get rebricked and torn up monthly at least 20 times)
    • engineer_2212 hours ago
      My parents live in New York State, 8 miles from the main east-west transportation and data corridor. They still have no high speed wired internet options. No fiber, no cable, no DSL, and dialup ISP has been retired long ago. Their only option is satellite. This is in 4th most populous state in the US, and #1 highest GDP&#x2F;capita. Internet across the United States does not have the penetration many think, the US is vast.
    • DoesntMatter2213 hours ago
      I live not to far from NYC and I think it’s fantastic. Comcast was charging me 75 a month and Starlink charges me 40 for the same service which is generally excellent
    • kortilla14 hours ago
      You are in a dense population. A large chunk of the world (and many people even in the US) are in low density environments where fiber rollouts are too expensive.
      • blooalien13 hours ago
        &gt; where fiber rollouts are too expensive<p>Or in cities where fiber gets blocked by cable providers bribing corrupt local officials.
    • xenospn14 hours ago
      You’d be surprised how poor broadband Internet coverage is outside of major metropolitan areas in the United States. Some places are simply off-grid, or have to rely on dial up. All you have to do is drive an hour out and there’s no more Internet.
    • fragmede15 hours ago
      But would that have happened that way if Starlink hadn&#x27;t come about?
    • yieldcrv9 hours ago
      the next generation of satellites base stations that are currently going up remove the need for base stations<p>you’ll have similar throughout and latency direct to your phone<p>but since this dream has been mired by delays, the starlink base station is still convenient<p>lots of people that would otherwise be stationary for reliable internet can go on the road<p>week long festival campsites have lots of people who aren’t taking any PTO that connect to their teams during the day time, while everyone else has nonexistent cellular service solely due to the overloaded networks<p>I would wager that most don’t unsubscribe to starlink in between time they just increase their mobility since its suddenly practical<p>speaking of PTO, if they are accumulating it but now travelling and never using it then its functionally a raise, all because they keep a starlink subscription<p>bigger satellites will bring that to everyone
    • varispeed20 hours ago
      It&#x27;s good to have option in case your own government turns rogue.
      • ravetcofx20 hours ago
        Option being Starlink run by the rouge fascist billionaire who tries to use it to manipulate global wars?
        • Petersipoi20 hours ago
          Even if your outburst was true, yes.. If your government turns rogue it&#x27;s better to have 2 options than 1. Period.
        • zackgzard9 hours ago
          Better to have two dictators competing than one dictator controlling everything.
    • ThrowawayTestr20 hours ago
      People in rural parts of America where ISPs don&#x27;t want to expand into.
      • adventured20 hours ago
        They seem to be expanding even across rural America. These days it&#x27;s fairly common for small and medium size towns to have access to 500mbps-1gbps for $50-$90 per month, and essentially all small cities and above.<p>Reddit is overflowing with threads where people are getting AT&amp;T to give them 1gbps for $30-$35 per month. Comcast has repeatedly offered me 1gbps for ~$50&#x2F;m for five years locked-in. I have no practical use for it.<p>The US has more broadband than it knows what to do with at this point. Somebody needs to figure out a mass public use for home 1gbps+.
        • kube-system13 hours ago
          The word &quot;rural&quot; by definition typically refers to areas outside of a town or city.
        • AngryData15 hours ago
          It is far from complete but yeah I got co-op 1 gig fiber in my rural 56k only area like 2-3 years ago. Some places nearby still don&#x27;t have it but expansion is ongoing. Some select areas are starting to offer 2 gig but im unsure what most users would use it for.
        • jonah20 hours ago
          Fastest option I can get where I am is 260 Mbps for $250 from a local wireless ISP...<p>This makes starlink tempting but for that I&#x27;d have to run cabling 50 plus. M to get the this where it has a clear view of the sky...<p>(Edit) A nearby small town is installing municipal fiber right now, which is great, but that&#x27;s half an hour away.
        • ThrowawayTestr19 hours ago
          Do you think those prices would be available if SpaceX wasn&#x27;t providing strong competition?
    • vessenes20 hours ago
      You’ve clearly never lived in the US! Big place, not a lot of fiber.
    • roysting14 hours ago
      You’re not dumb. It has come up in extremely sophisticated valuations of SpaceX pre-IPO, if I recall off the top of my head, the only business that actually had any value, StarLink, assumes an irrational TAM.
    • StuMarkSez20 hours ago
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    • bogota11 hours ago
      [dead]
    • small_model20 hours ago
      [flagged]
    • sashank_150913 hours ago
      Surely funding cell towers in Africa &#x2F; India is cheaper and easier to maintain than 100k satellites in space.
      • wmf13 hours ago
        It&#x27;s not but <i>it&#x27;s all so tiresome</i> to explain why. Also, those (hypothetical) towers have no ROI because they only serve poor people. Starlink covers the entire world so parts of the world can subsidize service to other parts.
        • triceratops13 hours ago
          &gt; It&#x27;s not but it&#x27;s all so tiresome to explain why<p>I&#x27;d really love to hear it. Obviously you aren&#x27;t obligated to provide an explanation but if someone else does it, I&#x27;m all ears.<p>&gt; Also, those towers have no ROI because they only serve poor people<p>So why are they being built at all?
          • wmf13 hours ago
            Towers aren&#x27;t ever going to be built to cover the most rural areas. That&#x27;s why Starlink is needed.
            • triceratops13 hours ago
              I understand why it&#x27;s good and necessary for the rural areas to have Starlink. I don&#x27;t understand the big profit opportunity for Starlink in serving them.
  • j-bos38 minutes ago
    My mom lived with overpriced, underdeveloped, unreliable, and slow internet for years. Now she pays less for fast, reliable, sometimes improving bandwidth that doesn&#x27;t go down for weeks after a storm. Progress is often gross, but it can be a lifesaver.
    • Waterluvian26 minutes ago
      That’s great and I’m happy for her. Progress should be for all, not just the developed elite hanging out in tech circles.<p>Alas, <i>Not In My Low Earth Orbit.</i>
      • j-bos3 minutes ago
        Dude, she pays for it herself on pension.<p>And besides:<p>&gt; Progress should be for all, not just the developed elite hanging out in tech circles.<p>That&#x27;s... that&#x27;s basically been the start of every generally available technology that exists today, to benefit of &quot;all.&quot;
      • inemesitaffia18 minutes ago
        Progress isn&#x27;t evenly distributed.<p>That&#x27;s why we don&#x27;t deny some access because we can&#x27;t give everyone. Especially if the dispute is about method
  • rayiner27 minutes ago
    A couple of billion people are doing to join the global middle class over the coming decades. They don’t have pre-existing cable and phone networks that have been in the ground for 50+ years they can incrementally upgrade to broadband. Rich countries spend trillions getting to the point where most people have some sort of wired broadband option. If newly middle income countries want to pursue the same route, it will take decades.<p>Starlink short circuits that process. It means newly minted middle income people my dad’s village in Bangladesh can get broadband now instead of in 2050. Replicate that story all over South and South East Asia and Africa.
    • stringfood19 minutes ago
      but is providing access to internet for billions of people worth not being able to see the big dipper as clearly at night? I say yes, but only just barely
  • dom9617 minutes ago
    What I don&#x27;t understand is where are the Starlink competitors. Supposedly the UK government owns a stake of 10% in OneWeb and yet they are planning to use Starlink for trains.<p>Is it really just too hard to put enough satellites in orbit to be competitive with Starlink?
  • dtagames11 hours ago
    I just finished a long RV trip and I can tell you it&#x27;s hard to underestimate the importance of internet access (which also means Wi-Fi calling and access to maps and weather) across our entire, enormous nation.<p>It&#x27;s important not only for individuals but even more for businesses. Despite cell phone company ads with handsome celebrities in the desert, cell phones actually do not work in many places. But people do need to live and work in those places.
    • askvictor8 hours ago
      Once upon a time, people did long RV trips without internet access. Or even (cellular) phone access.
      • throw12345678914 hours ago
        Once upon a time people used to walk everywhere.
      • dtagames1 hour ago
        Definitely! I was doing the <i>observing</i> during an RV trip, but my comment was about how it impacts business even more.
      • jraby36 hours ago
        They did and it used to take a lot of planning, using paper maps, getting lost etc.<p>Just like once people didn&#x27;t use electricity or vaccines or indoor plumbing. For all its minuses the internet makes these long trips 10x easier.
        • defrost6 hours ago
          Hardly, and not by a factor of ten - at best it allows for digital mapping and (unreliably) replaces an ePirb.<p>What it does do, for sure, is encourage people with no proper grounding in multi day off road adventuring to have a go and die through lack of prior experience and skills.
          • boelboel5 hours ago
            Similar things happen in hiking, people who shouldn&#x27;t be there get encouraged by by how accessible information is to do things whereas before (most) people got info from someone knowledgeable.
          • HaZeust6 hours ago
            Can you source a citation referring to people that had &quot;no proper grounding in multi day off road adventuring&quot;, and were thus &quot;encouraged&quot; to &quot; go and die through lack of prior experience and skills&quot; via Starlink?<p>Whether you like it or not, Starlink being an easily-accesible internet service has likely saved dozens of noobs from certain death by offering emergency eSIM services, GPS navigation, or communciation systems that they wouldn&#x27;t otherwise have. Can I prove it objectively? Likely not (outside of forum anecdotes), but I wasn&#x27;t the first to make a claim with the burden to do so.
            • defrost5 hours ago
              &gt; Can you source a citation referring to people that had &quot;no proper grounding in multi day off road adventuring&quot;<p>Sure - West Australian newspaper pretty much any week of the year - tourists come from all over the globe to visit the vast untamed outback, rent a 4x4, head out, and get into life threatening (sometimes life ending) trouble despite having a phone connection via either mobile towers or starlink. You know, no charge, no backup, no paper maps, no experience, etc.<p>Whether you like it or not, ePiRBs being an easily accesible service has actually saved dozens of noobs and experienced personal from certain death by offering emergency service alerting - Fact! (and no internet required)<p>- <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Emergency_position-indicating_radio_beacon" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Emergency_position-indicating_...</a>
              • ACCount375 hours ago
                No, I don&#x27;t like it. Because it relies on someone getting a specialized piece of hardware in advance of an emergency. That&#x27;s a silly notion.<p>You could do that, or you could do the 21st century thing, and put up enough satellites to have emergency-grade LTE coverage across the entire country. Compatible with any smartphone.
                • defrost4 hours ago
                  &gt; it relies on someone getting a specialized piece of hardware in advance of an emergency.<p>Like Starlink? Glad we agree.<p>&gt; to have emergency-grade LTE coverage across the entire country.<p>Literally does not stop people dying and is not a substitute for knowing what you&#x27;re doing in remote areas.<p>The claim was:<p><pre><code> For all its minuses the internet makes these long trips 10x easier. </code></pre> which is false - at best it&#x27;s a 5% improvement on what was required as prep for long remote trips before Starlink.<p>A big issue with yelling help! from a remote location rather than having the skill set to self rescue is that now third parties (rescuers) are putting themselves at risk and using their time and resources which may or may not be reimbursed.
        • maelito6 hours ago
          Yes, that&#x27;s the problem.
      • MagicMoonlight1 hour ago
        [dead]
    • up2isomorphism11 hours ago
      This is a very wasteful way of getting communications to somewhat compensate the lack of competition in US telco market.
      • jillesvangurp8 hours ago
        The star link network is actually remarkably cost effective in getting internet access to rural areas. There&#x27;s a reason that these areas still have poor connectivity: it&#x27;s just not cost effective for anyone to build land based infrastructure there.<p>SpaceX spend a few billions on StarLink. But if you look at how much network operators have spent over the years on cables, base stations, etc. it&#x27;s not all that much for a network that offers high bandwidth access all over the planet.<p>Adding 100K more satellites is going to make Star Link a direct competitor to many of these operators.
        • dtagames1 hour ago
          It occurred to me after reading the original story that if space based internet gets fast enough, we&#x27;ll stop using any other kind for most purposes. That means, as a platform, SpaceX could carry a significant amount of the entire world&#x27;s internet traffic. No wonder Elon is interested.
      • stingraycharles9 hours ago
        Eh, I think the economics of rural areas play a role as well, and this “wasteful” way is actually very well suited for serving that long tail.
        • dtagames1 hour ago
          But the long tail isn&#x27;t served. The reality of your statement turns out to be that, if there aren&#x27;t enough customers to justify an expensive tower or wire, no service will be provided at all.
      • refurb10 hours ago
        It has nothing to do with competition. You could have as many competitors as possible and no one is going to put a cell tower up in a remote location.
        • sensanaty6 hours ago
          I&#x27;ve been on tiny Indonesian islands far from anything that could be considered civilization, and they&#x27;ll have cell towers more often than not.
          • dtagames1 hour ago
            Because Indonesia has a massive population, far more people than the US and much more densly populated. It&#x27;s internet users are vastly mobile as opposed to desktop or LAN connections. The US geographic landscape and computer use landscape are entirely different.
        • downrightmike8 hours ago
          It has everything to do with the lack of competition. US tax payers paid $4 billion to AT&amp;T in 2004 for fiber to -every- home. And that was never delivered, yet they keep getting more money. This is regulatory capture.
          • refurb8 hours ago
            We&#x27;re not talking about fiber, we are talking about cellphone coverage. As I said, no company will put a tower up in a remote area.
    • mplewis11 hours ago
      we should lay fiber about it, not do this wasteful atmosphere polluting bullshit
      • nazcan11 hours ago
        Just a choice of polluting the ground or the air.
        • croes8 hours ago
          How often do you need to replace the cable in the ground compared to the satellites in the air?
          • fy207 hours ago
            I can give an example. My parents live in the UK, and their house was built in 1985. A couple of years ago the copper phone line had to be replaced as it had degraded somebow. The operator had to dig up and reinstall their driveway, brick pathway and garden. Now the operator is installing fibre to replace copper phone lines, so again they need to dig it up.<p>One days work for one house. Multiply that across an entire nation, and work out how much diesel is burned for that. Where they live you can&#x27;t get cable (not very common in the UK), but if it was available I guess there would have been another digging day in the 90s.
            • forgotusername63 hours ago
              Installing subterranean cable is presumably a choice right? Couldn&#x27;t it be above ground?
            • croes3 hours ago
              In my area they did a whole street with fibre in one week.
    • croes8 hours ago
      Do you know what also is important?<p>To know when a asteroid is on its way to us.<p>All that satellites make discovering them more difficult.
      • yalok7 hours ago
        Could star link add some cameras on the back of those satellites and make the detection actually much better?
    • rebolek11 hours ago
      If your trip to desert is worth polluting whole low orbit and high atmosphere is debatable. Same goes for hypothetical business there. Maybe building towers would be a better idea in long term.
  • baranul10 hours ago
    At what point are people going to have a conversation about all the pollution and the consequences of so many satellites burning up (metals and other toxic stuff) in the atmosphere and fragments falling wherever.<p>100k... how much can we keep putting up and let keep falling around the world? Multiple other companies and countries want to do the same as SpaceX.
    • maipen9 hours ago
      This is typical degrowth talk.
      • kamov1 hour ago
        100k satellites is kind of insane, why not a smaller number of satellites which are more powerful, like the satellites from AST Spacemobile? It should be possible to launch smaller number of satellites without sacrificing progress
      • lukeify6 hours ago
        I guess the Montreal Protocol was &quot;degrowth talk&quot; for you too, huh?
      • downrightmike8 hours ago
        Populations are far below replacement. Degrowth is assured.
        • ACCount375 hours ago
          Populations may drop, but why would you want quality of life to remain constant?
          • shiandow1 hour ago
            You&#x27;d rather lower quality of land life to enable growth?<p>Or were you not responding to the argument that avoiding pollution is typical degrowth talk?
      • mparramon7 hours ago
        Absolutely. Degrowith is the guilt-fueled poverty mind virus.<p>Abundance, friends. Nothing stops us.
  • spullara15 hours ago
    I think most of this thread is missing the part where this will also work for cellphones and give you truly global coverage.
    • dawnerd13 hours ago
      * only when you’re outdoors with good line of sight and only in geographic areas they allow.
      • bilsbie2 hours ago
        I’m not sure if that’s true of these use cellular frequencies.
      • probablynotai12 hours ago
        Wifi indoors, starlink outdoors
    • onemoresoop14 hours ago
      Do we really need that? Most of us are fine with relays. The coverage in remote parts could be handled by way fewer sattelites. 100k is a lot of sattelites. Seems that with 100k leo we’d have 24&#x2F;7 live coverage of every inch on earth but do we really want that?
      • nomel14 hours ago
        &gt; we’d have 24&#x2F;7 live coverage of every inch on earth but do we really want that?<p>I think you misunderstand the maths a bit. If the goal is high bandwidth, which requires high density, for specific, randomly distributed, parts of the earth, then, by the fundamental laws of gravity and orbits, you&#x27;ll also have coverage over the rest of it, whether you like it or not.
      • connicpu12 hours ago
        Just coverage is already provided by the 600-something direct to cell satellites already in orbit yes, but you need more if you want it to be useful beyond loading text-only posts or sending SMS
    • dopa4236513 hours ago
      Internet works on phones?<p>The more you know.
    • roysting14 hours ago
      It also creates a private internet on which “private enterprise” does not have to abide by the Constitution or any subordinate laws.<p>Sure, it’s just “fear mongering” now, just like digital ID, digital currency, mass surveillance, and speech police were 30 or so years ago, but what happens when terrestrial cable internet gets too expensive and everyone’s subject to Elon’s space internet?<p>It’s basically the similar playbook as the cable&#x2F;copper phone network giving way to the internet and wireless and … whoopsie … you also have a tracking and permanent surveillance device on you with no ability to keep thousands of corporations harvesting your body for data and information.
      • asdff13 hours ago
        This would allow you to throw a flock camera up literally anywhere on earth. If we are being honest, we are probably only a couple years out from real Orwellian mass surveillance states, totally censored and mined communications, and general purpose compute restricted or made illegal I wouldn&#x27;t even be surprised. All the incentives lead right to that and we are halfway there in many ways already.
        • roysting59 minutes ago
          I hate to break it to you, you are already in an &quot;Orwellian mass surveillance state&quot; and just don&#x27;t realize it, just as the majority of people in the Orwellian mass surveillance state also were not aware of.<p>Case in point, are you aware that the whole 2+2=5 line was a deliberate falsification of a perfectly sound and even healthy statement that Orwell stole and perverted, i.e., 2 + 2 + the people&#x27;s enthusiasm = 5 ???<p>Then, when you start finding out that the CIA, at the same time that it was conducting its MKUltra &quot;experiments&quot;, was aggressively buying up all the rights to 1984 and then pushed them into schools and made the movies in close collaboration with Propagandawood; you have to at least start asking yourself extremely uncomfortable questions about whether 1984 was actually a warning or preconditioning, aka grooming.
          • fragmede56 minutes ago
            The CIA did help fund some movies of 1984 to make them more anti-totalitarian and anti-Soviet, but that&#x27;s not the same thing as them buying up all the rights to it.
      • kube-system13 hours ago
        There are already zero private companies that have to follow the constitution, since it never applied to them, ever.<p>As another person mentioned, radio crosses international boundaries, but it is regulated by regulating ground equipment and people and organizations on the ground. You&#x27;ll see some countries on <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;starlink.com&#x2F;map" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;starlink.com&#x2F;map</a> that are greyed out because of regulatory issues... for example, some countries such as India heavily control the use of satellite comms
      • tarpitt14 hours ago
        Do ISPs have to comply with the 1st ammendment? My understanding was that they have some sort of common carrier law but net neutrality did not hold up.
      • kortilla14 hours ago
        It doesn’t. The network is governed by the FCC and any other regulatory agency where they place RF on the ground.
        • roysting27 minutes ago
          You have a very peasant perspective. And that&#x27;s not meant as an insult, it&#x27;s just the kind of perspective of a peasant about what is going on in the kingdom, let alone in the palace&#x27;s inner chambers.
      • mlindner7 hours ago
        Do you think Starlink is somehow extraterritorial or something? They&#x27;re no more or no less a &quot;private internet&quot; than any other ISP. People need to get a reality check. Hacker news is becoming one of the most luddite places on the internet.
  • senderista13 hours ago
    Will this be the last generation to remember the night sky?
    • jws12 hours ago
      I may have blown the math, but the last time I calculated I figured there were about 35 Starlink satellites above the horizon at my latitude. Looking into the suburban early night sky I see zero, one, or two satellites with about equal probability.<p>I think the hypothesis this leads to is that the &quot;don&#x27;t shine&quot; techniques Starlink is using are working. I&#x27;m guessing the ones I see are either not Starlink or are Starlinks transitioning to their working orbit (they don&#x27;t do full &quot;dark mode&quot; until they are in place.) If in place units shown I&#x27;d see a lot more.<p>So at least, maybe it won&#x27;t all be gloom and doom. But if it is all gloom, at least it will have little sparkles floating around it.
      • colechristensen12 hours ago
        30 yard wide solar array from 300 miles away. There&#x27;s a brief period of the day where they&#x27;re visible but hardly a risk of making a dent in your view of the sky especially compared to ordinary terrestrial light pollution.
      • clumsysmurf10 hours ago
        I&#x27;m in a heavily light polluted city (Phoenix) and even with all the air and light pollution, can still see satellites every moment past 2AM to the east. At least this time of year.
        • mlindner7 hours ago
          That&#x27;s simply impossible. You must be seeing something else. They aren&#x27;t that bright.
    • openquery28 minutes ago
      Also the last generation to not frequent space. See the night sky up close.
    • vjvjvjvjghv13 hours ago
      If you don&#x27;t take long exposures, the satellites won&#x27;t cause you much trouble seeing the stars. Regular light pollution is the problem.
      • vvanpo12 hours ago
        They don&#x27;t stop you from seeing the stars, but I find them very distracting. Makes the experience of looking up at the stars on a quiet night less peaceful, I find.
      • defrost12 hours ago
        Sucks for regular astronomy then, where long exposures are the norm.<p>Equally sucks for radio astronomy where the bloody things leak into spectrums they (Starlink) pinky promised to keep clean. And successive generations have worsened the problem, again despite promises to improve.
        • ioseph11 hours ago
          Sucks being out bush stargazing and then seeing a massive constellation to remind you of Musk&#x27;s wealth and influence. It&#x27;s no longer possible to totally escape visual reminders of civilisation
        • connicpu12 hours ago
          Starlink actively works with radioastronomy sites to avoid causing interference. They&#x27;ve posted about this before.
          • defrost12 hours ago
            Yes, they do <i>post</i> about it.<p>Yes they do <i>talk</i> about working to avoid causing interference.<p>That&#x27;s been ongoing since before the first Starlink went up and has been ongoing as later generations haven&#x27;t improved.<p><i>Second-Generation Starlink Satellites Leak 30 Times More Radio Interference, Threatening Astronomical Observations</i> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.astron.nl&#x2F;starlink-satellites&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.astron.nl&#x2F;starlink-satellites&#x2F;</a><p><pre><code> Observations with the LOFAR (Low Frequency Array) radio telescope last year showed that first generation Starlink satellites emit unintended radio waves that can hinder astronomical observations. New observations with the LOFAR radio telescope, the biggest radio telescope on Earth observing at low frequencies, have shown that the second generation ’V2-mini’ Starlink satellites emit up to 32 times brighter unintended radio waves than satellites from the previous generation, potentially blinding radio telescopes and crippling vital research of the Universe. </code></pre> Still, at least they are <i>talking</i> about maybe doing something. Eventually. Perhaps.
        • kortilla12 hours ago
          If you have evidence of them causing interference on a spectrum they shouldn’t be on, report it to the FCC. They take that very seriously
          • defrost12 hours ago
            <i>Scientists analyze 76 million radio telescope images, find Starlink satellite interference &#x27;where no signals are supposed to be present&#x27;</i> (2025)<p>~ <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.space.com&#x2F;astronomy&#x2F;scientists-analyze-76-million-radio-telescope-images-find-starlink-satellite-interference-where-no-signals-are-supposed-to-be-present" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.space.com&#x2F;astronomy&#x2F;scientists-analyze-76-millio...</a><p>and several other papers over the past half decade.<p>It&#x27;s old news that they leak, and old news that F-all gets done about it.<p>Back to you.
            • kortilla6 hours ago
              &quot;It is important to note that Starlink is not violating current regulations, so is doing nothing wrong. Discussions we have had with SpaceX on the topic have been constructive,&quot; said Tingay. &quot;We hope this study adds support for international efforts to update policies that regulate the impact of this technology on radio astronomy research that are currently underway.&quot;<p>Sounds like not transmitting but just electronics existing in space.<p>This is directly the opposite of the implication of using Ku&#x2F;Ka bands they shouldn’t have (which is what the agreements were with astronomy groups - aka “pinky promise”).
              • defrost6 hours ago
                Starlink is leaking into radio astronomy bands, they initially said there wouldn&#x27;t be a problem, but there was. They&#x27;ve later stated it would addressed in Gen-2 - it got worse.<p>&gt; Starlink is not violating current regulations, so is doing nothing wrong.<p>Might be time to make global regulations on spectrum usage in space? That could take a while.<p>There are many past examples of companies &quot;not violating current regulations&quot; despite leaking toxins and other now recognised violations of the commons.
          • ericjmorey12 hours ago
            I&#x27;m not confident after all government investigations and lawsuits against Elon and his companies were dropped when Elon illegally accessed government systems, illegally took government data, illegally terminated government employees, and illegally eliminated government departments and programs while creating billions in expenses while pretending his intention was to help anyone but himself.<p>But sure, the FCC might take it seriously.
            • arijun12 hours ago
              Then just wait until the next administration. If they are building with technology that relies on the FCC being gutted, they will be in for a world of hurt when that changes.
          • tqi12 hours ago
            Brendan Carr seems more interested in settling political scores
      • mplewis11 hours ago
        Well, yeah, but my problem is with the long exposures that I&#x27;m trying to get.
        • esikich8 hours ago
          You should be using stacking software anyway. It&#x27;s a complete non issue.
    • missedthecue9 hours ago
      It will be the first generation with widespread space travel. My children will have consumer access to a view that no one had seen until 1961 and only government employees had seen since.
    • spongebobstoes13 hours ago
      light pollution already means the night sky is largely invisible outside of remote areas
      • ofjcihen13 hours ago
        “You can’t see it most places so who cares if it goes away” is my most charitable interpretation of this.
        • PeterHolzwarth12 hours ago
          The majority of people live in cities - and a growing majority.
        • morkalork13 hours ago
          I&#x27;ve never seen a glacier before, have you?
          • Bolwin12 hours ago
            Glaciers have never been accessible to most people.<p>The night sky has, until recently.
            • morkalork11 hours ago
              Are you sure? Most people live in urban centers the last few generations and see few if any stars in the night sky
          • browski12 hours ago
            Yeah. Hiked on and around them in PNW mountains.<p>And?
            • defrost12 hours ago
              Good for you getting that in before they disappear, probably got to see the night sky also, you can tell your grandchildren about that.<p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.climate.gov&#x2F;news-features&#x2F;understanding-climate&#x2F;climate-change-mountain-glaciers" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.climate.gov&#x2F;news-features&#x2F;understanding-climate&#x2F;...</a>
              • browski12 hours ago
                If you all are so sad about it do something about it.<p>Like travel less, spend less on technology<p>You&#x27;re part of the problem. It&#x27;s not just you but it is you too.<p>So what I will tell my grandchildren is &quot;The old Geezer Americans are fucking losers who fucked you over before you were born. You don&#x27;t owe them any respect.&quot;
      • tocs312 hours ago
        I have seen both stars and satellites from suburbs and some urban areas. They are not very remote. There is a lot to see if you look. I do not like the light pollution but as it stands it is not the end of star gazing.
      • switchbak13 hours ago
        “Remote areas” make up most of the world.
        • highfrequency12 hours ago
          Weighting by population seems reasonable here!
    • ecommerceguy12 hours ago
      At Farpoint Observatory, this is a major concern for those keeping an eye out for near Earth objects.
    • 0-_-08 hours ago
      You can only see satellites during twilight when they can reflect sunlight. Don&#x27;t panic.
    • jillesvangurp7 hours ago
      Many people have never seen that properly due to light pollution.
    • qntmfred11 hours ago
      go outside right now and look up. it&#x27;s still there.
    • BurningFrog12 hours ago
      Satellites only reflect sunlight when <i>in sunlight</i>. This only happens near sunrise and sunset.<p>The night sky will be unaffected by satellites for the foreseeable future.
      • ericjmorey12 hours ago
        I&#x27;ve been watching satellites at all hours of the night for decades. You might want to double check with reality on that sunrise&#x2F;sunset claim.
      • defrost12 hours ago
        You forgot about the radio spectrum pollution which affects the night and day sky right now .. and for the foreseeable future given the lack of progress in addressing that leakage.
        • BurningFrog12 hours ago
          The topic is seeing the night sky.
          • engineer_2212 hours ago
            Parent might be talking about amateur radio astronomy which I agree might be straying from the main argument
            • defrost11 hours ago
              Professional radio astronomy - SKA et al.<p>eg: <i>Scientists analyze 76 million radio telescope images, find Starlink satellite interference &#x27;where no signals are supposed to be present&#x27;</i> (2025)<p>~ <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.space.com&#x2F;astronomy&#x2F;scientists-analyze-76-million-radio-telescope-images-find-starlink-satellite-interference-where-no-signals-are-supposed-to-be-present" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.space.com&#x2F;astronomy&#x2F;scientists-analyze-76-millio...</a><p>and the topic is Starlink (and other sat constellations) and their impact on the sky (visible and non visible).
              • BurningFrog10 hours ago
                The message I responded to was about visible light:<p>&quot;Will this be the last generation to remember the night sky?&quot;
  • runako8 hours ago
    My understanding is that Starlink can only service ~6-7 houses per square mile today. The US is ~95&#x2F;sq. mile on average. 80% of Americans live in &quot;cities.&quot;<p>Anchorage metro is ~15&#x2F;sq. mile; Yuma, AZ is ~36. The Nashville metro is ~250.<p>Also, Starlink satellites spend ~70% of their time over the ocean. This will impact the utilization ratio of their gear and force them to launch still more satellites.
    • AgentK207 hours ago
      Simultaneously though, those 80% of Americans that live in cities&#x2F;within the typical commuting distance of a metropolitan area are also the ones that are usually serviced by at least one broadband or fiber provider. Because of this:<p>- Having slowly-increasing pressure on those often-monopoly broadband&#x2F;fiber carriers because people have the <i>option</i> to swap to Starlink, adds competitive pressure for them to improve their service, reduce prices, etc<p>- The remaining 20% of the population that lives on the 60-80%+ of the land who currently have terrible options, but fit well within the density restrictions of current-gen Starlink satelites, suddenly have options
    • jraby37 hours ago
      The new satellites are like 100x better.
  • diddid13 hours ago
    I think the end game is convenience. Nobody really needs anything more than 200mb&#x2F;s. If the average person can have their entire family stream their favorite Netflix show at the same time then that’s good enough. “Now lil Jimmy can watch it in the minivan too!”
    • esperent8 hours ago
      I remember ~20 years ago upgrading my house line to get something crazy like 0.5mbs and the sales guy telling me that I didn&#x27;t really need it and was wasting money upgrading from my current ~0.2mbs.<p>Those numbers are fudged of course, I don&#x27;t remember exactly how long ago or from what to what I was upgrading. My point is that we&#x27;ve always been having people say you don&#x27;t need faster internet. And yet, I still want, and use, faster internet. 200mbs I would consider fine. But I&#x27;d still feel the difference at 500mbs or 1gbs.
      • andriy_koval6 hours ago
        what you do to fill difference between 200, 500 and 1gb?..
    • mparramon7 hours ago
      &gt;Nobody will ever need more than 640k of RAM
    • tarpitt13 hours ago
      Eh, I&#x27;ve got 200mb&#x2F;s fiber for cheap. It&#x27;s pretty good and definitely bottlenecked by crowded wifi and upstream sources moreso than the ISP. Ethernet helps somewhat.<p>At the same time, I do kind of want more bandwidth just so I can download massive files like model weights quickly, host a web service out of my own house, seed torrents, etc. What might cryptocurrency look like if typical residential internet speeds were measured in gb&#x2F;s? Perhaps bitcoin might be capable of more than 7 tps!<p>But to be fair, I am a nobody.
  • porphyra20 hours ago
    One cool thing about Starlink is that it can potentially improve latency across the world. In optical fibers the light travels only two thirds as fast due to the index of refraction. But in space you can use a laser to send the data in a straight line in a vacuum.
    • wolvoleo15 hours ago
      Um yeah but the transmission path is longer and the equipment and signal processing on each hop also adds latency. I really doubt it&#x27;ll make much of a difference.
      • cortesoft14 hours ago
        I doubt the transmission path is longer, fiber optic cables aren&#x27;t laid in perfectly straight lines between all points.
        • wolvoleo7 hours ago
          I mean with satellite it&#x27;s longer. You have to go up and down, and starlink sats prefer sending data streams back to the ground as soon as they can (because the laser interconnect capacity is limited).<p>And variable, no less due to the high differential speed of the satellites. And the signal conditioning is much more involved than on the ground.
  • sidcool11 hours ago
    I understand no one here likes Elon. But does it mean we find justifications for our collective bias in everything his companies do?
    • lysace55 minutes ago
      Relevant news from the past week:<p>&quot;A joint investigation by The Insider, Der Spiegel, and Le Monde&quot;:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theins.press&#x2F;en&#x2F;inv&#x2F;294635" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theins.press&#x2F;en&#x2F;inv&#x2F;294635</a><p>Basically Russia and China are collaborating in taking down Starlink. Leaked documents showing the plans.<p>They don&#x27;t mention social media opinion shaping, but then again the leaked documents are from 2023.
    • kaliqt10 hours ago
      Yes, it would seem so.
    • throwaway1324485 hours ago
      Why do you put the onus on everyone else to make excuses? It sounds very entitled.
      • sidcool56 minutes ago
        I did not get it. But may be the onus is to not have a collective bias?
    • mparramon7 hours ago
      I like him! :D
      • sidcool55 minutes ago
        I don&#x27;t like him. I don&#x27;t hate him either. He&#x27;s not a thing in my life. But the companies are, SpaceX etc. do impact me.<p>Basically I would hate to see HN become Reddit.
    • esperent6 hours ago
      It&#x27;s an American company polluting the night sky for the entire world, for a service that will ultimately be access gated by the US government&#x2F;private industry. That&#x27;s where the negative sentiment is coming from. Who cares which of the many equally shitty US billionaires&#x2F;oligarchs is funding it?
      • gordonhart1 hour ago
        Do you feel the same way about Guowang and Qianfan, two very real very large constellations notably <i>not</i> funded by US billionaires?
        • throwaway1324481 hour ago
          This is a dumb question given that being funded by a US billionaire is what shapes their opinion.
  • N_Lens11 hours ago
    Fiber is just getting cheaper and cheaper, more resilient, and is faster too. Plus it has no value like copper so thieves dont steal it.<p>I don’t think it’s wise to pollute all of low earth orbit with Musk’s satellites, that area belongs to all of us collectively.
    • Rohansi11 hours ago
      I think the main goal is direct to phones rather than being an alternative to fiber. But it&#x27;s also a very good option for people living in rural areas with poor service (shoddy DSL).
    • small_model5 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • eleventen2 hours ago
        Casual, totally unnecessary prejudice against rural people to make your point.
  • Haven8802 hours ago
    He promised a lot. Really a lot. I doubt it will happen. Still waiting the SolarCity, Gigabattery, 4680, and CyberTruck he promised. Instead I get solar burst. CATL, CATL, recalled and finger cutting. And let&#x27;s not talk about AutoPilot FSD. Waymo is way ahead NOW. Mars? I double down my invest in Shanghai exchange now.
    • nova2203347 minutes ago
      Don&#x27;t forget MacroHard
  • prescriptivist20 hours ago
    I spent last weekend under some of the darkest sky you&#x27;ll find in the eastern US. Miles from cell service. I had a starlink portable with me and it was nice to get some service and stay in touch, but to watch the sky is to see satellites everywhere.<p>I&#x27;ve spent a dozen or so weeklong stretches in the last few years completely off grid, only connection being bringing up the inReach once a day. At this point I actually get anxiety at the end of such a trip, knowing that I&#x27;m going to be wading through a morass of notifications and slack&#x2F;email&#x2F;texts. Doing a once or twice a day sync via starlink didn&#x27;t really bother me so much when I&#x27;m out in the backcountry this last trip.<p>I&#x27;d love to be rid of all of it, but that&#x27;s not how the world works today.
    • rishikeshs20 hours ago
      Your comment was interesting.<p>i just read somewhere about spacex slowly destroying our dark night skies due to their satellite constellations. Thoughts?
      • jazzyjackson14 hours ago
        It’s just that, while so much of the sky is static, it’s impossible to gaze at without your attention being grabbed by the moving flick of light, it takes active effort to ignore it. So it’s a totally different experience stargazing now vs 20 years ago.
      • porphyra20 hours ago
        Starlink satellites are intentionally designed to be very dark, but they become more visible when the sun is about to come up or if there are super bright light sources on the ground nearby to reflect off of them.
        • MarkusQ11 hours ago
          If there are super bright light sources on the ground nearby that are bright enough to produce a visible reflection off a satellite, you are about to be dead.
        • garbagewoman14 hours ago
          Thats a nice intent i guess but doesn’t seem to work well in practice
      • prescriptivist15 hours ago
        Yeah, I meant to point out there that there is a tension between the technology that I don&#x27;t mind, but the infrastructure for it that I do mind. I don&#x27;t really know what the answer is. I do know that we&#x27;re probably not going to put this toothpaste back in the tube.
    • panopticon20 hours ago
      I love being off-grid with just my slow inReach Mini 1. I can communicate in case of an emergency, but otherwise it&#x27;s a great forcing function to not be hyper connected. I worry if I brought the portable Starlink with I&#x27;d connect much more than necessary.
    • Noaidi13 hours ago
      &gt; I&#x27;d love to be rid of all of it, but that&#x27;s not how the world works today.<p>Why do we think the human made world is out of our control? Learned helplessness? We could stop this. We do not need Satrlink.<p>Starlink will fail. And this will be more likely the more satellites they put up[1][2]. Or the more wars we get in. It will not be hard to cause a major destruction of all Starlink satellites [3].<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;outerspaceinstitute.ca&#x2F;crashclock&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;outerspaceinstitute.ca&#x2F;crashclock&#x2F;</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;spectrum.ieee.org&#x2F;kessler-syndrome-crash-clock" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;spectrum.ieee.org&#x2F;kessler-syndrome-crash-clock</a> [3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gizmodo.com&#x2F;russia-is-developing-orbiting-clouds-of-shrapnel-to-take-down-starlinks-nato-suspects-2000702532" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gizmodo.com&#x2F;russia-is-developing-orbiting-clouds-of-...</a>
      • prescriptivist11 hours ago
        If you wish to stop it, then stop it.
        • Noaidi10 hours ago
          I can’t stop. We can stop it.
  • cm21878 hours ago
    Am I right to understand that it will do nothing to big cities, where you share the radio frequency with lots of users just like a wifi? What it the minimum radius where two satellites will not interfere with each others (chatgpt says 40-130km radius if not allocated more spectrum)?<p>If that understanding is correct it means the addressable market is countryside and transportation (planes&#x2F;ships&#x2F;RV). Which necessarily makes starlink at most a fairly modest size ISP in terms of valuation?
  • TheAdamist12 hours ago
    He really does want to speed run everything sci fi, Kessler syndrome here we come!
    • palisade8 hours ago
      right panic, wrong fear<p>starlink are too low to cause kessler syndrome... but his starmind might
  • testaburger6 hours ago
    I read that by syncing up several space telescopes, astronomers can use something called interferometry to make them work together as one large telescope.<p>I wonder it&#x27;s possible for Starlink to attach small telescopes on each of these satellites, and if so, if this could lead to a massive PR win for them and a science win for humanity, while at the same time helping to combat any genuine concerns from the public about Starlink harming astronomy. Just an idea (again I don&#x27;t know if it&#x27;s possible).
    • yourMadness6 hours ago
      It&#x27;s not physically impossible. But the engineering reality isn&#x27;t promising.<p>You&#x27;d need micro-meter alignment accuracy across the constellation for optical observation. For radio observation it might be possible - but I&#x27;m not sure if it would be useful.<p>Launching complimentary ordinary space-telescopes would also be good PR.
  • daniel_iversen14 hours ago
    Surely it’ll be an issue some day for other space activities with all the SpaceX kit up there? I know space is very large :) but surely it’d be hard to scan, calculate and control trajectories of millions of orbiting tiny things when you’re launching rockets and things? A spacex satellite almost crashed into the Chinese space station some years ago and the Chinese had to perform an evasive manoeuvre I believe
    • drak0n1c11 hours ago
      With modern automation and AI, tracking and adjusting paths is better every year. Also, anything with malfunctioning movement will quickly descend and burn up in the atmosphere at that very low orbit.
    • jraby35 hours ago
      Yes and I&#x27;ll become another space industry. Cleanup. Sort of like how (coal&#x2F;ocean&#x2F;etc) pollution is both a problem and multi billion dollar a year industry.
    • onemoresoop14 hours ago
      Space could become so full of junk that it may actually harm operations.
    • connicpu12 hours ago
      Satellites flying at 360km (the target altitude for starlink V3) deorbit very quickly without regular burns. Dead starlink satellites are guaranteed to come down within 5 years.
    • arkensaw14 hours ago
      space is very large but low earth orbit is not.
  • gsky1 hour ago
    More trash in the space
  • alkyon4 hours ago
    I wonder if it would be possible for Starlink to use less reflective materials for their satellites so that the sky is less polluted for the astronomers.
    • ycosynot3 hours ago
      Sounds like a job for Vantablack<p>&quot;University of Surrey is developing Vantablack as a coating for satellites in earth orbit, to reduce encroachment upon ground-based optical astronomy.&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Vantablack" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Vantablack</a>
  • mparramon7 hours ago
    Loving this, not loving the negativeness in this thread.<p>I wonder what the negativists will say about Reflect Orbital, which uses their Eärendil space mirror to light the world.<p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reflectorbital.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reflectorbital.com&#x2F;</a>
  • bilsbie2 hours ago
    ITT don’t build on earth. Also don’t build in space.
  • ozgrakkurt8 hours ago
    It is incredibly stupid that this is happening instead of doing regular cable which works better and is cheaper
    • andriy_koval6 hours ago
      Elon mentioned he is building army of robots. This likely could be a way to manage them.
    • testing223218 hours ago
      If you think cable can be run to the places where starlink is changing to world, you need to get out more.<p>I’ve seen it in the Canadian Arctic, remote Australia, right around Africa.<p>Before starlink these places had dialup, or nothing.
  • meindnoch5 hours ago
    How much does this cost? Something tells me we could have covered the planet in fibre for the price of these Starlink satellites.
    • Y-bar2 hours ago
      And: What are the externalities of this? The current 10700 satellites are expected to have a lifespan of about five years. So, averaging these burning up in the upper atmosphere there will be one deorbit ever four hour.<p>If I were to ask my relevant government regulator if I were allowed to burn the equivalent of a few electric cars every day without capturing&#x2F;scrubbing the pollution they would laugh me out of the room.<p>But ”in space” nobody can hold you accountable, so burning an order of magnitude more like this is somehow on the table.
  • oatmeal111 hours ago
    If they pay an appropriate tax for light pollution affecting telescopes on earth, I&#x27;m all for it.
    • danny_codes10 hours ago
      LVT works just as well in space.
  • chasd0013 hours ago
    Starlink is going to become a phone carrier that doesn’t have to pay for pole or tower access. This is the real story, so long att, verizon, and T-Mobile. Starlink is going to beat them on price and availability. Just think, no international calling fees or hassle and cheaper mobile rates.
    • gsquaredxc13 hours ago
      Starlink is going to be a cellular company, except instead of maintaining cheap metal frames, they have to physically launch the antennas to space every 5 years.
    • vanshg13 hours ago
      How would it work indoors?
      • prescriptivist10 hours ago
        A more accurate description would be that starlink will become the trunk, and possibly the service. Local cell services will own the poles but will essentially provide access for starlink customers. It&#x27;s not a bad business idea, actually. People pay $30-40 a line for starlink cell service, starlink provides the big pipes so to speak and splits the bill with the local companies that put up the last mile towers.<p>In rural areas you can put up isolated 5G towers that have their own dish connection to starlink, no need to string a line to the towers anymore...
        • Alpha30318 hours ago
          It was never necessary to run fibre to any specific individual tower. Microwave backhaul works fine of you have good coveragef the area. Less well if you don&#x27;t. If cell providers wanted to put up enough towers that&#x27;s a self solving problem.
    • mparramon7 hours ago
      Exactly. Elon Musk does things for (1) fun (2) revenue in order to fuel his real mission: derisk humanity by conquering Mars.
  • westurner1 hour ago
    Hopefully LEO constellations can be made redundant with terrestrial comms.<p>Are there additional terrestrial signal propagation modes that could solve for the same needs as satellite data?
    • fragmede1 hour ago
      Nothing with that kind of reach on licensed bands for that kind of money with that sort of bandwidth.
  • ggoo20 hours ago
    Soon enough these will start showing ads - I pray for our night sky.
  • seydor20 hours ago
    Is that because China applied to launch 200000 satellites?
    • askvictor8 hours ago
      Applied to who?
      • seydor8 hours ago
        the International Telecommunications Union
        • throw123456789154 minutes ago
          You mean they followed some international process and didn&#x27;t go cowboy by assuming the planet belongs to them?
  • drnick114 hours ago
    Last time I checked, you couldn&#x27;t get a public IPv4 through Starlink, let alone a fixed one. This makes it a non-starter as a backup link for self-hosters, a use case it is well suited for.
    • lewi14 hours ago
      I&#x27;m using it for this purpose. You can just run a tunnel&#x2F;tailscale net&#x2F;dyndns.
    • Salgat13 hours ago
      You do get a public IPv6 IP, which is fine for most people (and with a simple script on a cron can keep a AAAA up to date, not that it changes often). And like someone else said, if you insist, you can use something like tailscale to punch a hole in Starlink&#x27;s global NAT.
    • alexnewman14 hours ago
      i have one
  • gagabity10 hours ago
    And Amazon going to add their own 100k, I&#x27;m sure there&#x27;s nothing to worry about
    • cubefox9 hours ago
      There are also several Chinese satellite constellations which will expand more quickly once several Chinese partially reusable rockets are online.
  • arjie15 hours ago
    Boy it&#x27;s going to be exciting when we can get Internet access literally everywhere. Excited for humanity&#x27;s return to space infrastructure!
    • tarpitt13 hours ago
      I feel like I already have internet access pretty much everywhere with cell towers, and even then if I went to the middle of alaska or montana I could already get sattelite internet before starlink with hugesnet which is fine as long as you&#x27;re not gaming or something.<p>But at the same time I think the low-earth-orbit is pretty nice in terms of latentcy, it&#x27;s a pretty innovative approach.<p>I just don&#x27;t get the idea behind AI datacenter sattelites and moving all this non-comms equipment up in space.
  • christkv5 hours ago
    I’m more worried about the geo synchronous ones as they don’t degrade and burn up in the atmosphere
  • tootie12 hours ago
    On twitter yesterday, someone posted a question about SpaceX&#x2F;xAI making a poor financial decision and Musk answered saying SpaceX will be worth more than the rest of the Earth. His megalomania is really running wild so I would not put much stock in this. They are asking the FCC for permission to launch 100k satellites which puts this very much in the &quot;aspirational&quot; category. They neither have plans nor approval to do it. This is a combination of ego and signalling to SPCX investors because it&#x27;s down nearly 10% from IPO.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cdn.bsky.app&#x2F;img&#x2F;feed_fullsize&#x2F;plain&#x2F;did:plc:57vlzz2egy6eqr4nksacmbht&#x2F;bafkreigz7o7622lixi5v2tlyerdi4p7jcbuisixn3ht47iphlji4hduhoy" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cdn.bsky.app&#x2F;img&#x2F;feed_fullsize&#x2F;plain&#x2F;did:plc:57vlzz2...</a>
    • throw123456789153 minutes ago
      Maybe he literally means that Space X is wort to him more than the rest of Earth.
  • horns4lyfe12 hours ago
    I’m shocked by the number of people here thinking you won’t be able to see the night sky because of 100k satellites. Is this site getting dumber?
    • Fraterkes5 hours ago
      People are complaining about their views getting polluted, they’re not saying they literally can’t see the night sky. If you’d like hn comments to be smarter, consider starting with your own.
    • elteto1 hour ago
      You can’t get nuanced, well thought out takes here on anything AI and Elon related unfortunately.<p>It’s frustrating because I often come to HN for the smart contrarian takes. But now I have to search really hard to find the opposite.
    • maipen9 hours ago
      The mistake was thinking the majority was smart.<p>There’s a lot of Elon haters here;<p>Anything related to Elon will always have the dumbest comment section.<p>You know it’s dumb when they say things like “it’s not needed. We already have this. i don’t see the point in this new tech” .
  • dhfbshfbu4u315 hours ago
    They’ll need this for their orbital data centers (aka Starmind) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.spacex.com&#x2F;spacexai&#x2F;starmind" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.spacex.com&#x2F;spacexai&#x2F;starmind</a><p>Elon really needs to drop some cash on Iain Bank’s family, if he’s going to keep stealing ideas&#x2F;names for his empire.
    • walrus0114 hours ago
      I&#x27;ve read the entire series of Culture novels and don&#x27;t recall seeing &quot;starmind&quot; as a term anywhere. Mind, yes, but used in a somewhat different context, as the minds are both sentient conversational AI entities with equal or greater intellect to a meat-based human or alien, and also semi-godlike AI powers (a single Mind has the capacity to have a 1:1 conversation with all of the residents of an Orbital if it wants to).
  • phs318u3 hours ago
    So over 100K starlink sats and then another 50K mirror sats (see that other HN post). Leaving aside the very tragic destruction of the night sky for observers, I’m afraid for the day we have a cascade of satellite debris events that send us backwards an and pretty much destroy our spacefaring ability.
  • SubiculumCode15 hours ago
    So, at some point, will our devices connect to their corporate offices in any environment, even without providing access to your network, short of putting it inside a Faraday Cage?
  • andyjohnson04 hours ago
    I was surprised recently to read that the centre-point of the orbits of the starlink satellites doesn&#x27;t actually correspond to the earth&#x27;s physical centre. Instead, they orbit around the centre of Elon Musk&#x27;s ego. As he moves over the surface of the planet, the constellation actually shifts its orbits in response.
  • xinayder8 hours ago
    Can&#x27;t wait for Kessler syndrome to actually become a thing.
  • khazhoux13 hours ago
    The sky gets visually and physically polluted. Some parts of the world that haven’t mastered cables get faster internet. Elon gets richer.<p>Win-win-win?
  • hulitu7 hours ago
    &gt; 100k more – for 100x the bandwidth<p>I guess some things do not scale. The only thing that humans are good producing, is garbage.
    • defrost7 hours ago
      Think of it less as a comms system with a small increase in bandwidth, and more as a radar system with a larger increase in resolution.<p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=jbp3kdJZ1_A" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=jbp3kdJZ1_A</a>
  • HackerThemAll8 hours ago
    I can&#x27;t wait until this junk starts to collide and blocks us from making any space flights. This has to happen and probability grows with the square of the number of orbiting satellites.
    • jillesvangurp7 hours ago
      People seem to have a poor understanding of just how much space there is up there. It&#x27;s just very empty up there. And these things are in precisely controlled orbits that are well documented, etc. Even if you simplify your thinking of orbits to a 2D (square area), it&#x27;s a lot of space.<p>But that would be a mistake of course. Low earth orbit is three dimensional. Star Link uses several altitude bands of about 20-30km each. It&#x27;s 330-360km for the v3 satellites. The volume of that is about 17 billion cubic kilometers. About 13x the volume of all the water in the oceans. Accidental collisions are not going to be a frequent thing. These things are going to be many kilometers apart.
      • lukeify6 hours ago
        &gt; Even if you simplify your thinking of orbits to a 2D (square area), it&#x27;s a lot of space.<p>This is not a spatial problem. It&#x27;s an intersectionality problem.
  • zakki14 hours ago
    Will it make our sky &quot;cloudy&quot; most of the time?
  • kome14 hours ago
    i want to see a dark sky at night
    • buzzerbetrayed13 hours ago
      If you truly gave a shit, it wouldn’t be this you’re complaining about
      • duskdozer4 hours ago
        How do you know what the parent complains about other than this?
  • shevy-java7 hours ago
    I don&#x27;t think Musk needs any more money.
  • ck220 hours ago
    no, just no<p>make them pre-pay a multi-trillion cleanup and cancer fund for all the toxic waste, not just the launches but pollution burning up in the atmosphere<p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;satellitemap.space&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;satellitemap.space&#x2F;</a><p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;graphics&#x2F;2025-space-orbit-satellites-pollution&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;graphics&#x2F;2025-space-orbit-satellit...</a><p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=48787042">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=48787042</a>
    • usui20 hours ago
      You want them to pay a multi-trillion dollar clean-up and cancer fund for car-sized multi-year-service-life satellites burning up in the atmosphere? How much do you want incumbent multi-decade culprits to pay?<p>EDT: I should have clarified I&#x27;m not only talking about incumbent satellite companies because people are replying about the launch volume. Think about pollution from oil companies and coal plants and consider how that compares to an aerospace company. How much have polluting companies been fined relative to multiple trillions of dollars?
      • Alpha30318 hours ago
        Would be nice for oil and gas companies to pay for all the emissions say, starting when they found out about it and decided to lie to the public. Maybe also bring charges against the PR firms they used since given those same PR firms worked for the tobacco industry clearly they won&#x27;t stop until there are consequences.<p>Unrealistic, I know, but one can dream.
      • sailingparrot20 hours ago
        &gt; How much do you want incumbent multi-decade culprits to pay?<p>You are clearly not grasping the magnitude change in how many satellites we used to launch vs how many we are launching nowadays.<p>In 2026, we are putting 10x as many objects in space as we did just 8 years ago, with Starlink being the bulk of it: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ourworldindata.org&#x2F;grapher&#x2F;yearly-number-of-objects-launched-into-outer-space" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ourworldindata.org&#x2F;grapher&#x2F;yearly-number-of-objects-...</a>.<p>Starlink has 12.5k satellites in space and looking to ramp up massively, the biggest &quot;multi-decade incumbent&quot;, oneweb, has 5% as many, about 600.
      • rdiddly14 hours ago
        We want incumbent multi-decade culprits to also pay appropriately.
        • buzzerbetrayed13 hours ago
          Yet you only talk about it when it’s big scary Elon. Cry me a river.
          • danny_codes10 hours ago
            He&#x27;s generating a lot more pollution. It&#x27;s reasonable to want equity around externalities, which is a distinct problem under capitalism.
      • ceejayoz20 hours ago
        &gt; How much do you want incumbent multi-decade culprits to pay?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.space.com&#x2F;space-exploration&#x2F;launches-spacecraft&#x2F;launch-monster-spacex-has-lofted-more-satellites-than-everyone-else-in-history-combined" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.space.com&#x2F;space-exploration&#x2F;launches-spacecraft&#x2F;...</a><p>&quot;Elon Musk&#x27;s company has now lofted more spacecraft than the rest of humanity combined — and its lead is likely to grow over the coming months and years.&quot;<p>(And most of the other providers don&#x27;t plan for theirs to burn up within a few years. Giant disposable LEO constellations are new.)
      • ck220 hours ago
        we cannot have private trillionaires milking &quot;privatize the profits and social the costs&quot;<p>no more, it has to end immediately<p>they aren&#x27;t just silo-ing their wealth, they are leveraging against societies, funding far-right violent politics against society<p>even the evil Koch-brothers have cancer wings in hospitals around the country, Musk doesn&#x27;t give a dime to charity, just his own foundation which he controls to only do what he wants to manipulate<p>pre-pay costs to society before damaging society
        • bubblegumcrisis20 hours ago
          also, criminal murder charges for those who enable actions like, &quot;poisoning a water supply,&quot; &quot;creating an opiode epidemic,&quot; &quot;giving millions of people cancer, knowingly&quot;<p>I just don&#x27;t understand why, killing one person is murder, but killing hundreds over many years is, &quot;just the cost of doing business.&quot;
    • ThrowawayTestr20 hours ago
      Do you have any proof that starlink satellites are worse than the tons of space debris that enter the atmosphere every day?
      • tzs19 hours ago
        The <i>satellites</i> aren&#x27;t worse. It is the <i>rockets</i> that are worse. On the way up they emit various things into the stratosphere, which is about the worst place you can emit stuff when it comes to affecting the atmosphere.<p>It has not been a major problem so far because in its entire history humanity has only launched around 35000 rockets that have reached the stratosphere. Ramp that rate up significantly and it comes something we serious need to worry about.<p>(That&#x27;s not to say that space debris reentering the atmosphere isn&#x27;t bad. It also unfortunately deposits various things in the upper atmosphere that we really do not want to put there).
        • NetMageSCW14 hours ago
          You may want to compare the emissions of all rockets annually to the emissions of jet planes daily and reconsider your position.
          • tzs11 hours ago
            You may want to compare the flight profiles of jets and rockets, what layers of the atmosphere they emit in, and how the effects of the things they omit vary by where in the atmosphere they are emitted.
          • garbagewoman14 hours ago
            Yeah we should do something about both issues, good on you for bringing that up
          • wpm13 hours ago
            Hmm, I noticed you didn&#x27;t mention car exhaust in your comment. Perhaps you would like to reconsider your position. I am very smart.
          • Aachen14 hours ago
            Can&#x27;t have nice things because someone else is worse
      • Noaidi13 hours ago
        So let&#x27;s add more???
    • ls61220 hours ago
      The amount of matter which enters Earth&#x27;s atmosphere from non-manmade sources is far higher than any conceivable amount of space junk today.
      • ceejayoz20 hours ago
        But a significantly different makeup than plain old rock dust.
        • ls61210 hours ago
          It is gonna be mostly aluminum, lithium, and silicon isn&#x27;t it? Nothing too extraordinary or weird.
        • briandw15 hours ago
          Citation needed.
          • ceejayoz12 hours ago
            I’m not sure that “we don’t make satellites out of rock and ice” needs a cite, but here you go.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;research.noaa.gov&#x2F;noaa-scientists-link-exotic-metal-particles-in-the-upper-atmosphere-to-rockets-satellites&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;research.noaa.gov&#x2F;noaa-scientists-link-exotic-metal-...</a><p>&gt; Niobium and hafnium do not occur as free elements in nature, but are refined from mineral ores. They are used in semiconductors and superalloys.<p>&gt; In addition to these two unusual elements, a significant number of particles contained copper, lithium and aluminum at concentrations far exceeding the abundance found in meteorics, or ‘space dust.’ “The combination of aluminum and copper, plus niobium and hafnium, which are used in heat-resistant, high-performance alloys, pointed us to the aerospace industry,’’ Murphy said.
          • garbagewoman14 hours ago
            No citation required, just some light thinking
    • redsocksfan4520 hours ago
      [dead]
  • formvoltron20 hours ago
    soooo good that they&#x27;ll burn up one day and this nonsense can finally end.<p>investors provide infinite capital to nonsense projects so that the showman can create an endless show that will attract new nonsense capital.<p>sorry but already in rural morocco they have 200 mbit internet for 20 bucks a month. Yes there are some 6 wheeled vehicles roaming the planet that might really benefit from these 100k satellites. but for 99.9% of everyone else? we&#x27;re good!
    • StuMarkSez19 hours ago
      &quot;...we&#x27;re good.&quot; ? It seems that you are excluding all of the actual users onboard with Starlink tech. I&#x27;m one. I had choices and Starlink was a welcome addition to the short list.<p>In a short time, Starlink proved to be that disruptive &quot;invention&quot; that changed everything. There are already millions of users. Nobody is forced to use Starlink. Yet here we are.<p>Whether there are investors or not, a positive cashflow and the millions of users prove that Starlink is not just valid to our society at large, but wildly so. My opinion is that it is almost as disruptive as cell phones when they became affordable.<p>Current number of paid subscriptions: 12 million +. So, actual users is many times that, if subscribers generally represent multiple users per account. Think &quot;Household&quot;. And then, if one extrapolates users under institutional, municipal, state or military, the numbers are astronomically increased. Just, individuals walking around inside a Dollar General store...
      • formvoltron13 hours ago
        curious where you live that starlink is the best option.
    • cortesoft14 hours ago
      &gt; for 99.9% of everyone else? we&#x27;re good!<p>Well Starlink has 12 million subscribers, which is already more than 0.1% of the population, so clearly you are incorrect that 99.9% of people don&#x27;t want it...
      • formvoltron13 hours ago
        12 million &#x2F; 8.3 billion =&gt; 0.0014 something. so.. 0.1% turns out to be correct. honestly i made the number up and accidentally nailed it
    • 1234letshaveatw20 hours ago
      imagine thinking you speak for the 99.9% lol
    • StuMarkSez19 hours ago
      [flagged]
    • ThrowawayTestr20 hours ago
      Starlink was funded internally by SpaceX. What investors are you talking about?
      • wmf20 hours ago
        SpaceX&#x27;s money came from outside investors.
        • vessenes20 hours ago
          … and customers. It’s cashflow positive.
      • formvoltron12 hours ago
        those who buy &amp; sell stocks &amp; options &amp; provide exit liquidity.
  • slicendice9 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • sardine58 hours ago
    [dead]
  • ychompinator6 hours ago
    [dead]
  • lousken20 hours ago
    [dead]
  • 1234letshaveatw20 hours ago
    Musk is nothing if not ambitious
    • ryandvm20 hours ago
      Eh, his <i>promises</i> are ambitious.<p>And the gullibility of his investors is bottomless.<p>I too plan on increasing my revenue 100-fold by 2030.
      • JumpCrisscross14 hours ago
        &gt; <i>his promises are ambitious</i><p>First scalable launch system and scaled LEO constellation are more than promises.
      • cortesoft14 hours ago
        &gt; And the gullibility of his investors is bottomless<p>You can certainly have a problem with Elon Musk, but the people who have invested money with him over the years have done quite well for themselves.
  • oxqbldpxo13 hours ago
    EM is an ignorant.
  • croes15 hours ago
    So SpaceX is just an overvalued internet provider?
    • tarpitt13 hours ago
      Say what you will, but it&#x27;s staying above cloud providers.
      • croes9 hours ago
        Not for long because it needs replacement constantly.<p>Must be the most unsustainable way to provide internet
        • small_model5 hours ago
          They launch them all the time, similar to telcos digging up copper to replace fibre or upgrading infra as new tech improves.
          • croes3 hours ago
            They have to, otherwise the internet is gone.<p>My provider took 3 years from the signing for fibre to the actual delivery. But I still had internet before. Worse but internet.<p>If SpaceX stops, internet is pretty quickly gone.<p>And it seems SpaceX is its own best customer when they need to put up and replace so many satellites.
            • small_model2 hours ago
              They last 7-10 years so they would need to stop launching for a decade, not going to happen.
  • 0x5915 hours ago
    How could this not end poorly? I cant think of one realistic scenario where there world benefits.
    • NetMageSCW14 hours ago
      You can’t imagine the number of lives saved with cellular access everywhere and Internet broadband where it has never been?
      • 0x591 hour ago
        Arguing that broadband internet saves lives reminds me of the argument that Jesus saves lives and the love of Jesus must be spread around the world.
      • tarpitt13 hours ago
        Probably not that many lives, maybe like a handful of hikers every year I would guess? I think what attracts hikers in the first place is the danger, and the idea that they&#x27;re exploring an area that is &quot;outside of civilization&quot;
      • wpm13 hours ago
        satcoms have been accessible for decades. I have a satellite phone. It&#x27;s an iPhone 14 Pro. None of this is actually necessary.
      • ychompinator6 hours ago
        [dead]
  • tim-tday15 hours ago
    <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Kessler_syndrome" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Kessler_syndrome</a><p>I wonder what spacex will be worth when launching satellites is impossible for a couple hundred years.
    • Polizeiposaune14 hours ago
      It won&#x27;t be centuries.<p>starlink satellites are in low orbits and will deorbit in a few years at most if bricked; to stay in orbit, they use ion thrusters to counter drag from the very uppermost reaches of the atmosphere.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ai-solutions.com&#x2F;newsroom&#x2F;why-starlink-is-lowering-satellite-altitudes&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ai-solutions.com&#x2F;newsroom&#x2F;why-starlink-is-lowering-s...</a>
      • titzer13 hours ago
        When satellites smash into each other at high velocity, they explode. Some of that debris will end up in higher orbits and linger.
        • Polizeiposaune12 hours ago
          Some of the debris from a collision may end up in an orbit with a higher apogee, perigee will necessarily still be at or below the altitude of the last collision and will be subject to some of the same low-orbit aerodynamic drag that starlink satellites experience; passes through lower altitudes will apply drag that will first drop the apogee and will then eventually cause the debris to reenter.
        • audunw12 hours ago
          How can it linger in a higher orbit. Maybe some of the debris gets a kick which increases its velocity, but you need <i>two</i> velocity boosts to circularise the orbit, no? So I figure at worst you get an elliptical orbit which will still decay
        • moralestapia11 hours ago
          Nope, if it goes up it will go down even faster.<p>Orbits are about speed. Two things colliding cannot have debris coming out at a faster velocity than either of them.
    • zwily15 hours ago
      Kessler is much less of a problem at their altitude (480km). Debris has too much drag and would get pulled down too quick to have a sustained Kessler situation. It&#x27;s possible, but very very unlikely at that altitude.
      • dualvariable10 hours ago
        You could still generate a mess for 5-10 years at that altitude. Even if it self-clears you still destroy the constellation and deny access to LEO for years.
    • mlindner7 hours ago
      Kessler syndrome relies on two key provisions:<p>1. Orbiting objects never try to avoid each other.<p>2. They&#x27;re in high enough orbits that atmospheric drag is not a significant factor such that debris can last decades or centuries.<p>Starlink fails both as they constantly maneuver and they&#x27;re in low orbits that are constantly cleaned by the atmosphere.<p>And I&#x27;d add that &quot;kessler syndrome&quot; is actually a statistical process, not a rapid sudden cascade of satellites crashing into each other. It takes years to decades for it to actually &quot;happen&quot;. It&#x27;s not something that can be caused by military action either.
    • NetMageSCW15 hours ago
      Stop trying to make Kessler syndrome a thing - it was never a thing, it isn’t a thing, it will never be a thing.<p>It is just pearl clutching by those too afraid of modern life. Gravity wasn’t a documentary.
      • hackeraccount1 hour ago
        Hey! I think I saw you on Ars. Or maybe someone there copied and pasted this?
      • bell-cot1 hour ago
        Back in the day, &quot;Kessler syndrome&quot; was a fairly good way to articulate the fears of many scientists - whose delicate one-off &quot;flagship&quot; scientific research satellites had huge costs and lead times, if things started going wrong up there.<p>And <i>overall</i>, today&#x27;s space powers are much more careful about not making messes in orbit.
      • serf14 hours ago
        a new hot take spotted : newtonian physics isn&#x27;t a thing.<p>let&#x27;s see how well the freeways work once we stop cleaning up after the accidents.
        • NetMageSCW14 hours ago
          I see you haven’t read the paper. How long do you think Kessler syndrome is projected to take? How long do you think natural clearing of debris at Starlink’s altitudes is?
        • panick21_14 hours ago
          Freeways are not 3 dimensional and they don&#x27;t have an automatic cleanup that cleans up things within a pretty short time. Also area we are talking about is fucking gigantic. Also accidents are going to be very rare as sats deorbit themselves end of live and even if they break and can&#x27;t move anymore, other sats that can still move can evade them.
      • micromacrofoot15 hours ago
        I mean it might be a thing in 100 years but we&#x27;re not even close now
        • WillAdams11 hours ago
          Which means that we need to act responsibly and plan ahead now so that it is not a thing 100 years hence.
  • linzhangrun12 hours ago
    Commercially speaking, does Starlink really need 100x bandwidth?<p>Starlink&#x27;s target market is limited. It is very good for ships, remote area, but not necessary in cities where most people live.<p>I am not sure whether the launch and maintenance cost of another 100k satellites is necessary for such a limited market, unless the cost of launch (Starship) and the satellites themselves drops greatly.
    • artisinal12 hours ago
      Europe alone has millions of potential customers:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.esa.int&#x2F;Applications&#x2F;Connectivity_and_Secure_Communications&#x2F;Analysis_shows_benefits_for_broadband_connectivity_in_Europe" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.esa.int&#x2F;Applications&#x2F;Connectivity_and_Secure_Com...</a>
      • downrightmike8 hours ago
        But they get internet on their phones for like 15 euros a month because they have competition.
    • bell-cot1 hour ago
      [dead]
  • sdevonoes8 hours ago
    Always surprises me how people feel identified with progress they didn’t participate with. These satellites have nothing to do with you. You didn’t build them nor researched about them. These are the toys of a far-right asshole. It sucks