7 comments

  • 3eb7988a16636 minutes ago
    Notably, this location is not far from where the Foxconn facility was going to be installed (the "eighth wonder of the world", 10k+ jobs, yada yada). After that debacle, I can imagine local residents are deeply skeptical of new big development projects.
  • marticode1 hour ago
    Well my IP (regular plain residential Asian ISP) is blocked on this site. Zealous Cloudflare-blocking is breaking the web.<p>(also thanks for the useful message telling me to &quot;contact the website owner... while blocking me from the website where the contact info should be)
    • dylan6049 minutes ago
      I&#x27;m not defending Cloudflare, but what is a better solution? If small websites can just be DDOS&#x27;d out of existence because some group thinks it&#x27;ll be funny, what protections do they have? It takes too much equipment and know-how to stop an attack for people to be able to survive online. The next thing you&#x27;ll hear about is a monthly service fee to the hackers as a protection racket just like the mob.
      • deely34 minutes ago
        And don&#x27;t forget about kids safety!
      • PunchyHamster1 minute ago
        nah they will be selling their service to both hackers and their targets
    • isodev14 minutes ago
      It&#x27;s amazing how after all these years, tech world still believes it&#x27;s a good idea to sell the entrance to their websites and services to the same bouncer. Cloudflare not in the mood for your IP&#x2F;ISP&#x2F;Country? Tough cookies.
    • PunchyHamster3 minutes ago
      block was enabled by site owner, not cloudflare. If they used something else they&#x27;d just blanked block ASN IP blocks
    • kogasa240p1 hour ago
      Microsoft has decided not to move forward with its proposed site for a data center in the Village of Caledonia after facing significant community pushback from residents. Posted and last updated<p>VILLAGE OF CALEDONIA, Wis. — Microsoft has decided not to move forward with its proposed site for a data center in the Village of Caledonia after facing significant community pushback from residents.<p>PREVIOUS COVERAGE | Microsoft data center proposal continues to divide Caledonia residents as rezoning plans move forward<p>“Based on the community feedback we heard, we have chosen not to move forward with this site,” a Microsoft spokesperson said in a statement Wednesday.<p>The tech giant’s decision comes after hundreds of residents voiced opposition to the project over recent weeks. More than 2,000 people signed a petition opposing a rezoning proposal that would have allowed the data center to be built on 244 acres of land.<p>Watch: Microsoft pulls plug on plans for 244-acre data center in Caledonia after community pushback<p>The proposed site was situated on County Line Road and State Highway 32, southwest of the WE Energies Oak Creek Power Plant, and was surrounded by farmland and residential properties.<p>47032805-Concept Site Plan - Project Nova by TMJ4 News<p>Despite abandoning this particular location, Microsoft indicated it remains interested in investing in Southeast Wisconsin.<p>The spokesperson said the company looks forward to “working with the Village of Caledonia and Racine County leaders to identify a site that aligns with community priorities and our long-term development goals.”<p>TMJ4’s Jenna Rae, who has been following this story, reached out to Todd Willis, the village administrator, who provided the following statement:<p><pre><code> “Nothing official has been submitted to the Village regarding their pending application, and have no comment until such time.” </code></pre> - Todd Willis, Village Administrator<p>Resident Prescott Balch told TMJ4 that his phone did not stop ringing on Wednesday morning, as people delivered the news. PRESCOTT BALCH TMJ4 Prescott Balch lives in Caledonia. Balch welcomed the news that Microsoft is changing plans to bring a data center in the area.<p>&quot;We&#x27;re ecstatic that those arguments held water and ultimately convinced a large corporation to back off, so great day here in Caledonia,&quot; Balch said.<p>Village trustee Nancy Pierce says she learned about the change from a news article.<p>&quot;I have a lot of respect for Microsoft, making the decision when they say they listened to the constituents. They also listened to board questions both at the planning commission at the board level. I believe that they took a lot of different pieces of information into play,&quot; Pierce stated. Nancy Pierce TMJ4 News Nancy Pierce is a village trustee in Caledonia.<p>Both Pierce and Balch made it clear that they are not opposed to working with Microsoft in Caledonia.<p>As the tech giant looks for a new site, there is hope that there are improvements to the overall process.<p>&quot;I would’ve liked to been able to engage directly with Microsoft much earlier in the process. We were not allowed to do that. I think that became an obstacle for a lot of different points and reasons,&quot; Pierce explained. &quot;I feel like now they would come forward much quicker and engage directly with the community, really get to understand the community.&quot;<p>&quot;There are people that have an opinion about what they want to do with their village, and that was absent in this to me. That&#x27;s the real message of this thing,&quot; Balch explained. &quot;Let&#x27;s help Microsoft find the right spot in southeast Wisconsin.&quot;
  • arjie1 hour ago
    What is the actual procedure through which this happens? You buy the land and then are granted permission on a discretionary basis? It seems to me that if you were a small business this becomes much harder to participate in because you need to acquire and hold the unproductive asset.<p>This would mean that land use tends towards that which large firms (which can sustain the costs easily by self-financing) find useful.
    • thewebguyd9 minutes ago
      My employer went through a similar process, not for a data center but for a large recycling yard&#x2F;center. We had to buy the land first, and it was basically unproductive for 2.5 years of mostly waiting for permits, and it was already zoned industrial so no zoning changes were needed.<p>The whole project was several million in expenses before even making a dollar. We aren&#x27;t huge either, the permitting was not supposed to take that long it but a real strain on the business.<p>So yeah, you&#x27;re correct. The current process favors large firms, at least those large enough to absorb the cost for multiple years or however long permitting takes, which in some municipalities can be a very, very long time.
    • toast01 hour ago
      Depending on things, you might enter a land purchase (or lease) contract that&#x27;s contingent on issuance of a building permit.<p>But a seller would probably prefer to sell without contingency, so what terms are available depends on market conditions.<p>Title insurance for residential real estate may sometimes cover properties that are unbuildable due to unsatisfiable permit requirements.<p>All told, it&#x27;s easier as a buyer if you purchase an existing structure that was built under permits and is currently in use under appropriate occupancy permits.
    • delfinom1 hour ago
      Zoning laws. Many parts of the US but not all have land use zoning. The zoning for any property you buy is public record, so any business knows well in advance of what they are buying. If you want to deviate from the zoning you have to submit an application for that zoning variance which requires usually a community hearing.<p>Neither small or large businesses really have any big advantages here. Got to win over the community. If anything, the small business may be local and the operators more readily able to convince the community for a variance than some corporate lawyer.
      • thewebguyd7 minutes ago
        Zoning is only part of it. If a plot is already zoned industrial, but is empty, you still need to get the permitting for building construction, utility hookup, waste water &amp; stormwater, environmental inspections, etc.<p>It varies from state to state (and city specific laws), but to go from empty land to productive asset can take several years.
      • bobthepanda1 hour ago
        Also for a large enough utility hookup you will need to coordinate with the utility and or government since you can’t just plop down a large consumer on any old power line or pipe.
    • delusional45 minutes ago
      From what I can tell Microsoft hasn&#x27;t purchased the land yet. It&#x27;s apparently owned by WE energies as part of the power plant next door.
  • delecti1 hour ago
    My first reaction is that 244 acres for a data center sounds absolutely obscene. But I have to admit that I&#x27;m coming from a place of ignorance.<p>How big &quot;should&quot; a data center be? How big are some other data centers? How big is us-east-1, for an example of a large one? I&#x27;m finding this to be rather difficult information to google.
    • manarth1 hour ago
      That&#x27;s the land allocation rather than the building-size &#x2F; data-centre size.<p>The average data centre is 10,000 square metres (2.5 acres).<p>As well as compute and network facilities, DCs also need to accommodate parking, personnel areas, cooling, fire-suppression, power substations, power redundancy (generators), ground-security…<p>244 acres is absolutely at the upper end of any DC site.
      • nixgeek22 minutes ago
        Utah’s 40,000 acre datacenter proves it’s not absolutely at the upper end.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;ai-artificial-intelligence&#x2F;933687&#x2F;utah-stratos-project-data-center-kevin-oleary" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;ai-artificial-intelligence&#x2F;933687&#x2F;u...</a><p>Most hyperscalers now prefer to build larger sites as “campuses” which may consist of many buildings each consuming 40-100MW, and then yes each building needs most of what you mentioned, so it adds up.<p>A few sites are now also contemplating BTM or ‘behind the meter’ power generation which takes additional space.<p>Then some sites like Microsoft’s Fairwater design are optimized for a very large number of Accelerator cabinets — think GPU, TPU, etc. Those cabinets are each consuming 140kW today and with a path to 700-1000kW cabinets soon, so that’s one super dense building instead of a campus of less dense buildings filled with Compute.
        • manarth10 minutes ago
          40,000 acres, aka 77 × Monaco&#x27;s!<p>TIL.
    • mapt51 minutes ago
      Based on a majority of games regions, US-East-1 is scattered properties in a &lt;100 square mile area near Dulles Airport in Virginia, associated with an Internet backbone junction and former AOL campus in small town called Ashburn.
    • jubilanti1 hour ago
      I assume you mean AWS us-east-1. It isn&#x27;t a single data center. It is a cluster of data centers around Northern Virginia.
    • LeFantome1 hour ago
      us-east-1 is a region. That means that it is 3 to 6 “availability zones” within a 100 km or so. Each of these availability zones consists of a cluster of data centers. Each cluster is perhaps 3-5 that are a few km from each other. The data centers will have tens of thousands of servers each.<p>So that is the mental model you should have for “how big is us-east-1”. But also, the data centers are not going to be, individually, anything like 244 acres. Best guess is that individual data centers are between 200,000 and 400,000 square feet. That is 5 to 10 acres.<p>Do the math above and us-east-1 may be 300 acres of floor space spread over a very large area.
      • nixgeek10 minutes ago
        AWS publicly stated I think in 2021 that the larger availability zones in US East 1 consisted of 17-18 datacenters each. It’s likely grown a lot since, and they recently announced AZ7 will be online in Maryland soon, so they must be running out of ability to grow the ones in NoVA.<p>I can’t find a link now but it was one of the re:Invent talks like Peter DeSantis briefly explaining AZs before he dug into how Amazon optimizes their concrete mixtures to be more environmentally friendly or something…<p>All things point to that being the biggest region any hyperscaler has in the world, and several gigawatts of power consumption.<p>James Hamilton also gave a talk in 2021 about AWS having crossed 20 million Nitro cards deployed and 12GW power consumed —<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mvdirona.com&#x2F;jrh&#x2F;talksandpapers&#x2F;JamesHamilton20221010.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mvdirona.com&#x2F;jrh&#x2F;talksandpapers&#x2F;JamesHamilton2022101...</a>
    • bigdick117 minutes ago
      My data center is bigger than yours.
      • sterlind12 minutes ago
        it&#x27;s not the size of the chip, it&#x27;s the motion of the digitalocean.
    • jeffbee1 hour ago
      Almost all of the site would have been open space, existing transmission corridors, an electric substation, and two flood control ponds they threw in to try to sweeten the deal by offsetting the new impermeable surfaces. The data halls are a small portion of the site.
    • badlibrarian1 hour ago
      [dead]
  • Danox32 minutes ago
    Probably a wise decision on their part Microsoft already is all in on Copilot AI if it fails, the CEO probably is gone.
    • thewebguyd1 minute ago
      They&#x27;re already backtracking on, at least, the consumer Copilot being shoved everywhere in Windows. I think Nadella is already on his way out though (voluntarily). Judson Athoff is already taking over as &quot;CEO of Commercial Businesses&quot; so Nadella can be closer to engineering, which he&#x27;s said he misses.
    • simonebrunozzi25 minutes ago
      Are you sure? AFAIK, Satya did a great job from the point of view of a shareholder - +1,200% from 2014 to today [0]<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.macrotrends.net&#x2F;stocks&#x2F;charts&#x2F;MSFT&#x2F;microsoft&#x2F;stock-price-history" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.macrotrends.net&#x2F;stocks&#x2F;charts&#x2F;MSFT&#x2F;microsoft&#x2F;sto...</a>
  • rbanffy1 hour ago
    For a moment I thought they were referring to the Scottish Highlands, but I guess the name fell in disuse when the Roman Empire fell...
  • jeffbee1 hour ago
    Wealthy white exclave succeeds in using environmental justice language to keep cheap coal-fired power to themselves. Very American outcome.<p>Although I obviously don&#x27;t care about Microsoft&#x27;s outcome here, this was clearly a great site at the intersection of two transmission lines and with essentially infinite water resources.<p>The data center would have been built in this scene. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;maps&#x2F;@42.8440852,-87.8474228,2445m&#x2F;data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&amp;g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDUyMC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;maps&#x2F;@42.8440852,-87.8474228,2445m&#x2F;da...</a>
    • trollbridge1 hour ago
      Some of us would like to keep our “infinite” water resources which actually aren’t infinite.<p>I live beneath two transmission lines (overlapping, I guess, but not intersecting) and would prefer no data centre built here. Why? Because it will provide me no benefit whatsoever, reduce my property value, and worsen my quality of life due to things like light pollution and noise.<p>If data centre operators would fix these things perhaps people would feel differently. For example - provide multi gigabit fibre Internet to everyone nearby.
      • jeffbee1 hour ago
        I support in principle the rights of towns to set their own land use rules, but on the larger societal picture I don&#x27;t support people benefiting from things like intermodal shipping, goods distribution, and information services that they refuse to host. So I perceive a certain hypocrisy in this story.
        • 3eb7988a166354 minutes ago
          Surely I benefit from a host of things for which I want nowhere near me. Strip mining, petroleum refining, chemical processing, coal fired electricity, etc. Am I allowed any autonomy or must we all accept that if a rich group wants to plop down a leather tanning factory across the street, I should have no recourse?
          • jeffbee34 minutes ago
            That&#x27;s a mix of different issues. The site of a natural resource isn&#x27;t one of the things that political systems control, whereas the site of a petrochemical refinery or a power station is chosen by those systems. So yes, it is obviously hypocrisy to consume petrochemical products while insisting that the refinery can&#x27;t be in your &quot;rural character&quot; exclave with the arbitrary line drawn around it, but allowing the same facility to be built over the county line in the poorer, browner community that you consider sacrificial. Anyway, the impacts of a data center are not in the same ballpark as the other things you mentioned.
        • Scroll_Swe6 minutes ago
          I kind of agree but I live in a city in Sweden.<p>Should I not be able to use youtube or order online because we don&#x27;t have a DC right next door?
        • mindslight19 minutes ago
          Maybe everyone in this village already has their own local AI rig. From a technical perspective, data centers aren&#x27;t providing public goods - rather they&#x27;re more like attractive nuisances that foster centralized control.
    • energy12311 minutes ago
      One of the rare cases where nimbys can&#x27;t do damage because the hyper scalers will (and are) building their data centers across MENA, South Asia and SEA where they&#x27;re welcomed with generous tax breaks and incentives.<p>Sending kilobytes of text over thousands of miles is a lot easier than piping energy or housing across distance!
    • insane_dreamer41 minutes ago
      &quot;a great site&quot; -- you frame it like Microsoft was working for the public good
      • Danox28 minutes ago
        This is the last stand for Satya Narayana Nadella Copilot has to work…
    • Scroll_Swe8 minutes ago
      And this is bad because they are wealthy and white?<p>Nothing is &quot;infinite&quot;<p>Did us white europeans and white WASP american have it good, yes. Why do you hate us so, out with it.<p>Cant tell if woke socialist, racist or both.