Unfortunately, digeridoo playing is just as disruptive to partner's sleep as snoring is. Perhaps they should try bagpipes?
Funny.<p>The didge forces you to learn circular breathing, it's cheaper, it is easier to learn, and is easier to play well. Plus I think it sounds better. Everyone should learn to play the didgeridoo. Bagpipes are a whole another level, and feel more like a practical joke gone horribly wrong (Sorry Gran.)
Use a box didgeridoo instead, it's much quiter than a full-size one.
I suspect bagpipes may be the worst wind instrument to learn in this regard, at least if the goal is to train circular breathing?
If you're talking about the great highland bagpipes, circular breathing can be really helpful while learning. Because of the "practice chanter," every piper have one or two and use it to learn new tunes or just practice technique.
I would imagine some basic breathing techniques may help, wonder what the research in anuloma viloma pranayama shows, but beware there's a lot written by random people on the internet about it without scientific evidence.
I don't think circular breathing is the goal. It's just a means to an end. The goal is strengthening the muscles that keep the airway open. The resistance from blowing into the didgeridoo seems to be what does that. I have no idea how that compares to bagpipes, however.
Several varieties of bagpipe I'm aware of don't even require breathing, since they're powered by bellows. The pipes are surprisingly hard to learn by the way. One normally starts on the chanter, which is more like a recorder and is not bag assisted.
Both can practice in the other room.
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A friend of mine started "blowing air into water with an straw" (making bubbles) very seriously. I was very skeptical to say the least; but after a couple of months the effects have been very eye opening. Not only it has helped sleep apnea and snoring but also helped with reducing their weight. They had an online group and most participants reported the same. The wight loss was reverted when they stopped for some personal reasons. I wonder if making bubbles in the water has the same effect.
I don’t mean to be rude, but what kind of personal reasons might stop a person from breathing into a straw at night
My didgeridoo teacher had the class practice at home continuously blowing air through a straw - it still took me almost half a year to reliably be able to do circular breathing.<p>I have read a few references that humming or ‘ohming’ help sinus health and breathing so I guess it makes sense playing the didgeridoo would help also. Blowing bubbles through a straw won’t cause vibration, so probably in itself won’t help.
Reminds me of that guy who started drinking water upside down to train his swallow muscles and cure his chronic heartburn.
There's some science on training those muscles, even without upside down drinking. "Dry swallowing" while on an incline seems to do the trick just fine.<p><a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9550520/" rel="nofollow">https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9550520/</a>
Did it work?
Someone really needs to properly do the science on this<p>I (presumably like the majority) assumed that sleep apnea was at least partially caused by weight gain, but if there is weight gain caused by sleep apnea it’s going to give doctors some new tools
There is plenty of proper science on this. Weight gain does not cause obstructive sleep apnea until you get into extremes (e.g. huge necked bodybuilders or people with so much fat on their chest that they physically struggle to move it to breathe). Sleep apnea makes it harder to lose weight and easier to gain weight. Having sleep apnea and being heavier can make sleep apnea worse. Losing weight quickly can make sleep apnea worse when you lose muscle mass along side fat (e.g. on ozempic).<p>There are plenty of tools for doctors to treat sleep apnea. The problem is that they refuse to use them. Many people on CPAP would benefit greatly from being on BiPAP instead, but doctors commonly refuse to prescribe it. Some cases of sleep apnea can be treated using positional therapy (typically side sleeping), but there's no prescription for that. Some cases can be solved by exercising throat muscles (with or without a didgeridoo), but there's no prescription for that either, and there are virtually zero speech/physical therapists who focus on that. There are some surgeries that can really benefit some patients, but most sleep labs and ENTs refuse to even to even perform a proper sleep endoscopy.
I had textbook symptoms of sleep apnea with a BMI of 19, before I was diagnosed. The sleep tech told me bluntly that plenty of slim people, even children, develop sleep apnea.<p>Obesity increases the chance of developing sleep apnea, yes. But sleep apnea also increases the chance of becoming obese. It is not just a simple unidirectional cause and effect.
Sounds like a semi-occluded vocal tract exercise, something that singers will do to strengthen the vocal folds and reduce tension.
Is the weight loss just from sleeping better and therefore making better food choices?
Underrated question<p>Personally, when I have not slept well and need to be productive in a day, I’m much more likely to want to load up on sugar and unhealthy food
Almost certainly plays a role. Also increased activity levels due to better less fatigue.<p>Certainly is not defeating thermodynamics, assuming calorie absorption is not disrupted somehow it's likely the above.
I saw a documentary where a vocal coach used a similar technique to help metal singers sing in a way that didn't destroy their throat and vocal chords
Just learned from comments here it's called "circular breathing"!
Would you happen to have more information about this online group? Would love to join it!
CPAP machines are essentially a hose that has you breathe into water.
this is incorrect lol. the water is just to help with humidity, to prevent a dry mouth and sinuses. all resumed cpap machines for example can be used without the water tank as long as you have the backplate.<p>the water in the tank is heated to increase the humidity of the air circulating.<p>cpap machines work by increasing the air pressure on breath-ins and help open your airways by keeping your genioglossus tensor veli palatini muscles engaged.
Kind of, yeah. When I first got onto CPAP I was worried that it would cause my muscles to atrophy over time because it makes the inhale so much easier. But the pressure is still there on the exhale, which is exactly like breathing out through a straw into water (with 5-20cm water on top of the straw, depending on the CPAP pressure).
Can you please expand on that? How many times and minutes a day? Full power?<p>Got a link?
Seems related to our aquatic mammal past.
I once took a didgeridoo course and played for quite a while after that. One weekend of 2×3 hours of didgeridoo playing, and my nose was incredibly clear. Like never before and never again since.<p>By the way, you can practice circular breathing very well in the shower. Take water in your mouth and breathe in through your nose while simultaneously spraying the water out through your lips.
I started playing didgeridoo 10 years ago for precisely this reason. Sleep apnea already cured by weight loss, but I knew by air pathways were prone to it, and I never wanted it to come back.<p>It worked<p>It took me 1-2 years to learn circular breathing, but even just learning to play for 15 seconds on one breath can give the "oxygen high" from breathing so much.
Double Reed instruments have also been shown to have a positive effect for those suffering from sleep apnoea. It seems due to the higher air pressure needed to play: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_reed" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_reed</a><p>Presumably quadruple reed instruments (that require even more air pressure to play) would be even better: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadruple_reed" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadruple_reed</a>
Unrelated to the health aspects, but if you like electronic music and the Didgeridoo check out Aphex Twin's album "Digeridoo". It's so good.
And also the mandatory "Treaty, Yeah!":<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPmDLR_M50M" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPmDLR_M50M</a>
?Yothi Yindi? I listened to this song a bit back in the early nineties but it sounds a bit dated now. (Ironically the traditional instruments sound a lot better than the synths.)<p>Didgeridoo (when played properly) can sound great. Like the bagpipes there are a lot of people who can barely play, but go out busking.
If you like psy electronic music, there is 'The Mystic Didgeridoo':<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhhLhb3zc8" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhhLhb3zc8</a>
The carnyx is the nearest traditional western European equivalent. There is a guy who plays it called John Kenny who I don't rate. Abraham Cupeiro, on the other hand, is amazing. See here:<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhwWihyylPg" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhwWihyylPg</a>
Always my first thought when reading/hearing the word.
I played with my didgeridoo 3 times a day for ten years and it cured my snoring. But I went blind.
There seems to be a typing mistake. The embouchure should have diameter of 2.8-3.2 centimeters, not millimeters. Perhaps that can be done DIY from an PVC pipe with an hot air gun or a gas burner to soften and shape the end.<p>"Participants received a standardised acrylic plastic didgeridoo that was developed by the instructor in collaboration with Creacryl GmbH (Ebmatingen, Zurich, Switzerland, and costs €80 (£43; $94), fig 1). The didgeridoo is 130 cm long with a diameter of 4 cm and an elliptical embouchure with a diameter of 2.8-3.2 mm. Acrylic didgeridoos are easier for beginners to learn on than conventional wooden didgeridoos."
"Perhaps that can be done DIY from an PVC pipe with an hot air gun or a gas burner to soften and shape the end."<p>When I used to make my own PVC didgeridoos, I would melt candle wax and then dip one end repeatedly into the wax to build up wax layers until it had the desired thickness and shape.
Twenty years ago my neighbor, a retired surgeon, made me a PVC didgeridoo and did the wax buildup thing - I still mostly play that didgeridoo. Years later my wife bought me a traditional heavy didgeridoo from Australia, but it doesn’t play as well; still, when I played at a friend’s wedding I used the Australian one because it looks better :-)
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiqEhJJqtbc" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiqEhJJqtbc</a>
I had excellent results using a large section of black bamboo, though I forget the exact taxonomy (lako?). I meticulously beat out the segment walls, then with a rasp fastened to a long stick, filed down the ridges. After sanding, I finished it with oil based stain, which necessitated it living outdoors for a while. In the end it proved a fine primitive instrument. I gifted it to someone and miss it. I can attest to the therapeutic effects of mastering the didge.<p>PVC works, but the acoustics do seem superior with actual plant material. Certainly the feel.<p>Update: I used beeswax for the gob hole.
Yeah that should be 2.8-3.3cm for sure.
Last thing I need for my sleep through my thin walls is a neighbor with a didgeridoo.
I don’t think they’re suggesting you do it like a sleeping pill and play some didgeridoo right before bed. Rather, it’s about regular practice like with any other instrument.
Might help fall asleep, like a white noise machine :)
These two <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXBGZoBYaLY" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXBGZoBYaLY</a> must be best dorm neighbours ever then.
30% of Americans have reflux, which is associated with obstructive sleep apnea.<p>Check out the papers on Inspiratory Muscle Training (IMT) and bridge swallowing.
It sounds like an attention thing.<p>Attention is magic stuff. Putting it on part of your body can make it better. Withdrawing it can make it worse. I suspect that much disease stems from such neglect.<p>I used to have a chronically stuffed nose. Then I started doing a kind of meditation where I put my attention upon my nose. My nose opened up and I almost never get a stuffed nose anymore.
Unrelated to the content of this submission, but trying to visit this link in Firefox takes me into an endless recaptcha loop, whereas visiting in Chrome took me to the site without any captcha.
Sorry to hear that! You must be using an unapproved browser.<p>Please contact your nearest Cloudflare ChildProtect™ agency to request a one year license to browse the internet. You will be asked to provide a government ID card or equivalent.
Wondering what sort of plugins you've got on the Firefox side. If they're stripping out headers, for instance, it's a good way to make yourself look like a bot.
Firefox on android with ublock origin didn't hit any captchas. I wonder what triggers them?
Yeah I dunno if I believe this, I played trombone when I was a kid... I didn't get sleep apnea until like 10 years ago. Unless it somehow takes like 30 years to develop, it seems implausible.
What are you saying? That you expected your childhood trombone playing would somehow protect you from sleep apnea forever? "Use it or lose it." Sleep apnea can certainly take 30 years to develop. Old age increases the chances of getting it. Menopause does too. Muscles get weaker.
n=25, self report AND only players with partners. I think there’s merit to using muscular musculature to improve your sleep apnea but this doesn’t answer the question of why playing the instrument wasn’t preventative in the first place.
The captcha on this site is irritating.<p>Original paper: <a href="https://www.bmj.com/content/332/7536/266" rel="nofollow">https://www.bmj.com/content/332/7536/266</a>
Didgeridoo specifically?, or any instrument that requires circular breathing <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_breathing" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_breathing</a>
Circular breathing is easiest to accomplish on the didgeridoo. This is because of several reasons: optimal back-pressure (hits the sweet spot between lack of resistance on a flute and too much of it on an oboe, for example), loose embouchure (relaxed lips make it easier to puff up the cheeks) and single drone focus (no distracting fingerings required).<p>I also suspect the intense vibrations have a similar effect (probably stronger) to humming, which is known to dramatically (15-20x) increase the release of beneficial nitrous oxide in the nasal passages.
> I also suspect the intense vibrations have a similar effect…<p>My gut says that there are some interesting discoveries waiting around the intersections of frequency of vibration, individual resonant frequency, and duration
the study was conducted using a didgeridoo but the circular breathing seems to be the important mechanism. No studies have been conducted on other instruments that require or benefit from it.
CPAP user here, and "have you tried taking up the didgeridoo" is comfortably the best sentence I've ever read in a medical journal.
The mask works fine — it's just that I go to bed every night looking like a minor Star Wars character, so I'm very open to alternatives. And from the other comments, the didgeridoo sounds like the boring tongue exercises in a trenchcoat: same throat muscles, except you might actually keep doing it. Which is the entire problem with the tongue exercises.
Study was moderate apnea so I'm keeping the machine. But I am absolutely buying a didgeridoo and becoming insufferable about it. My household has been notified.
There are also various simple tongue and throat exercises that can improve your sleep apnea that would generally be better tolerated by your neighbors than playing a Didgeridoo, see for example...<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNscQ3bGxNk" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNscQ3bGxNk</a><p>...along with various other videos on that person's youtube channel (he's an NHS Sleep and Ear Surgeon).<p>Of course, there are lots of underlying causes of sleep apnea that vary between people, so what helps one person may or may not be relevant for others. Seeing a doctor in the field should be your first step if you suspect you are suffering from sleep apnea.
If your neighbour plays the banjo, invite them over: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr3iI8gg2fo" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr3iI8gg2fo</a><p>Two wrongs can make a right.
Not really related, but worth repeating: there's an old saying, "A gentleman is one who knows how to play the accordion, but doesn't".
45 seconds of didge, and then be puts it down!<p>Hope he sleeps well tonight!
Thx for linking that. Just … wow
Some might, in fact, call it the Didgeridon't
Jokes on you, my neighbours already play the digeriedoo.
Looks like there was no placebo group? Don't know what that could be, something silly like otamatone lessons.
A placebo didgeridoo, otherwise known as a didgeridon't
RTFA? "Participants in the control group remained on the waiting list for lessons"
That's not a placebo. A placebo would be learning to play some other instrument like a piano, that doesn't involve breath. I also RTFA and saw no mention of any meaningful control group. For all they know the effects would come from learning any instrument, or just going to regular classes, or...
Now I want to hear about the possible effects of ukulele playing on scoliosis.
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Anything except just losing weight.<p>You know who doesn’t have sleep apnea? Skinny people. I mean wafer thin. They only get it from actual constructive nasal obstruction.
Not true. I know very fit, very skinny triathletes who have sleep apnea.
Oh not this nonsense again. Plenty of "wafer thin" people have obstructive sleep apnea. There are lots of factors that contribute to sleep apnea, from big tonsils to hormones to muscle tone to tongue size. Weight is not the issue.
> The randomisation list was concealed from the recruiting physicians and the didgeridoo instructor in an administrative office otherwise not involved in the study. We used a central telephone service, which the didgeridoo instructor used to obtain group allocation.<p>Oh, did you make use of the central telephone service did you? You didn't send the list by carrier pigeons?