10 comments

  • jonplackett1 hour ago
    The control group should still be sleep deprived for 6 months and see what that does to their brain.
    • mynegation29 minutes ago
      As a father of a newborn never have I ever seen an HN comment so incisive and to the point.
      • LeifCarrotson25 minutes ago
        As the father of a 9-year-old I have to warn you: the sleep deprivation does not end at 6 months.
        • Aurornis7 minutes ago
          As a father of multiple kids younger than that, I have a very different experience.<p>I’m sorry you’re going through this, but I’m slightly taken aback by this comment because this isn’t a common feature of having older children. The only parents I know having sleep deprivation problems have very young children. I have a lot of parent friends and I’ve never heard anyone claim that sleep deprivation continued until older ages, let alone that it’s common.
          • SoftTalker3 minutes ago
            Yeah it moves from waking up in the middle of the night to having fights about going to bed and getting up in the morning...
            • Aurornis1 minute ago
              Like I said, I have kids too. But enforcing boundaries and sleep schedules is lot different than claiming a decade of sleep depreciation. Kids sleep longer than we do as adults.
        • pplante14 minutes ago
          As a father of three, ages 4, 5.88, and 9 I can concur that the sleep deprivation doesn&#x27;t improve much. Especially if they are neurodivergent.
          • dotancohen10 minutes ago
            <p><pre><code> &gt; ages 4, 5.88 ... if they are neurodivergent. </code></pre> I think they may have learned something from dad.
      • ray_v17 minutes ago
        Congrats and guard your sleep hygiene as much as possible (practically impossible advice to follow in most cases).<p>I went through a really rough period because of the lack of sleep. I noticed that hydration during that period was also challenging, so I wonder if this is related to the brain shrink effect.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.medicalnewstoday.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;323595" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.medicalnewstoday.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;323595</a>
    • gentooflux25 minutes ago
      Without all the oxytocin you get from hanging out with a newborn that would be awful
      • dotancohen8 minutes ago
        Completely correct. With all three of my children I was sleep deprived the first few months. But never in my life have I felt better.<p>For all the difficulties, children are rejuvenating and fun and provide purpose to life.
    • andsoitis12 minutes ago
      Why? Isn’t sleep deprivation a consequence of having a child?
      • karamanolev8 minutes ago
        They should be sleep deprived the same way for it to be a real control group, at least in the context of &quot;becoming a father&quot;. Otherwise it&#x27;s just &quot;being sleep deprived for 6-12 months has X effect&quot;, which is much less informative. We already know being sleep deprived for long stretches is really bad.
  • philjohn1 hour ago
    I&#x27;d need to read the actual paper, but isn&#x27;t poor sleep also correlated with &quot;shrinkage&quot; in the brain? And when you have a baby, sleep is one of those things that you don&#x27;t typically get enough, or high enough quality, of.
  • beshrkayali4 minutes ago
    Typical sensationalist title that is both reductive and nonsensical. I’m not sure if this is the study they’re referencing [1] but there are two parts that are worth quoting:<p>&gt; Although cortical reductions sometimes reflect a process of neurodegeneration, they can also be a sign of refinement and specialization of neural circuits. Adolescence, for instance, is a life period characterized by the continued elimination of redundant synapses (i.e. synaptic pruning) which parallels cognitive and emotional development (Selemon 2013). In the context of the transition to parent-hood, several examples across human and non-human mammals show functional improvements after reductions in brain markers (Pawluski et al. 2022).<p>And:<p>&gt; Although we found converging evidence of cortical reductions across the two samples, a number of divergent findings also emerged. First, when disentangling the cortical volume reduction, Californian fathers displayed significant reductions in area and Spanish fathers in thickness. Changes in the area may reflect changes in the number of cells located between radial columns of the brain, while changes in thickness may reflect changes in the number of cells within ontogenic columns (Petanjek et al. 2011). Secondly, the volume of the dorsal attentional network, which supports goal-directed attention, was significantly reduced in Spanish fathers, while it did not show significant changes in Californian fathers. Combined with the default mode network, this network may control sustained attention (Spreng et al. 2010, 2013), a behavior that is often required during childrearing. It is possible that these inconsistent results at the statistical level may be due to the different scan timing windows or to cultural or behavioral differences. For example, due to more generous paternity leave policies in Spain<p>1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;academic.oup.com&#x2F;cercor&#x2F;article&#x2F;33&#x2F;7&#x2F;4156&#x2F;6691667" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;academic.oup.com&#x2F;cercor&#x2F;article&#x2F;33&#x2F;7&#x2F;4156&#x2F;6691667</a>
  • dnnddidiej1 hour ago
    Indeed I dont daydream anymore.<p>Wonder if these changes are more like jettisoning luxuries rather than getting dumber.
    • pavel_lishin54 minutes ago
      Father of a ten year old here; I definitely still daydream, and I think I did for most of the time I&#x27;ve been a father - but it&#x27;s genuinely difficult to remember that sort of thing.
      • trelane30 minutes ago
        I also still daydream and have well before and after kids. If anything, sleep depravation with a newborn made it more vibrant and integrated.
        • pavel_lishin22 minutes ago
          I wonder if it&#x27;s some sort of adaptive mechanism, to prevent new sleep-deprived parents from completely losing the plot. Less daydreaming might mean more paying attention to this screaming thing that just fell out of you, and to every predator it&#x27;s probably attracting from miles around.
    • HPsquared1 hour ago
      The brain switching away from &quot;explore&quot; mode.
      • Aurornis5 minutes ago
        Becoming a parent changes a lot of how you think, but to be honest spending time with my kids did more to reignite my explore mode.<p>Childlike curiosity is slightly contagious. It’s also fun to experience it by proxy through your kids seeing things for the first time.
    • xenocratus1 hour ago
      I mostly stopped daydreaming at some point in my 20s too, after a fairly intense daydreaming life until then. Oh, and no kids yet :) so it could just be &quot;life&quot;
    • idiotsecant32 minutes ago
      I wonder what people mean when they talk about daydreaming? I think perhaps it&#x27;s an experience I don&#x27;t have, or perhaps constantly have? I have pretty strong and untreated inattentive type ADHD so maybe my whole life is a daydream.<p>When you say you don&#x27;t daydream, you mean you don&#x27;t think about non task related things? How do you experience daydreams? Is it a nonvoluntary thing or is it more like actually going to sleep - deliberately entering a contemplative state where your mind wanders?
      • 7thpower17 minutes ago
        Yes, this thread made me realize I may not understand what daydreaming is.
  • vegabook21 minutes ago
    more flawed[1] don&#x27;t-have-kids &quot;science&quot; but then they complain about demographics.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=47986349">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=47986349</a>
  • npilk1 hour ago
    <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;7LHeN" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;7LHeN</a><p>(&quot;This is your brain on kids!&quot;)
  • trelane27 minutes ago
    For women: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;cy0d59e7wjlo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;cy0d59e7wjlo</a>
  • amelius27 minutes ago
    Evolution packed us full of control mechanisms that work against us (the individual) but in favor of the group.
    • _0ffh16 minutes ago
      * In favour of our genes.
  • eternal_braid1 hour ago
    It needs a (2002) and it is behind a paywall.
    • kingleopold1 hour ago
      article says Oct 21st 2022 ?
      • antonvs21 minutes ago
        Perhaps he&#x27;s a father
    • tkcranny1 hour ago
      2022
    • walletdrainer35 minutes ago
      One would expect that the HN users who care about such things would already be aware of the paywall on economist.com
      • theonemind25 minutes ago
        As someone who cares about such a thing and had no awareness of that, I would tend to disagree. Nytimes gets posted enough that I have encountered the pay wall, but the economist, I’d have had to guess. I also tried to look at the article and didn’t see the year when trying to open the truncated article, and do like to know that I have started reading something old. I just don’t really agree with your comment at all from almost any angle, but I don’t think either one of us has numbers to back up anything