17 comments

  • idoubtit49 minutes ago
    The chain of facts makes me sad:<p>1. The French government announces its digital agency is to write a plan, by the end of the year, so that France could reduce its extra-European dependencies. The communiqué is wrapped up with minor facts (e.g. the digital agency is to switch to Linux on dozens of computers) and big promises from Ministers.<p>2. Various news sites state that &quot;France is ditching Windows&quot;, at least in their titles.<p>3. On new aggregators, most people react to the titles. Some do read the articles. Very few realize it&#x27;s about promises to act toward a vague goal, with an unknown calendar, and many political uncertainties.<p>I would have hoped for more cautious reactions. It&#x27;s not a leading act, not a reason to be proud, not a example to follow. It&#x27;s just words.<p>The French government already made similar promises in the past. Sometimes, it did happen, like the Gendarmerie (rural police) switching to a Linux distribution. Sometimes, it didn&#x27;t, like the pact signed by the Army Ministry with Microsoft in 2022: many clauses are still secret, even the prices.
    • raincole1 minute ago
      This is EU, what else do you expect? European officials saying they&#x27;re ditching Windows has become a ritual:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.linuxjournal.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;german-open-source-experiment-things-not-going-plan" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.linuxjournal.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;german-open-source-expe...</a>:<p>&gt; The German Foreign Office first moved over to Linux as a server platform in 2001... the Foreign Office of Germany made the announcement (translated news report) that it is migrating away from Linux back to Windows as its desktop solution.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;interoperable-europe.ec.europa.eu&#x2F;collection&#x2F;open-source-observatory-osor&#x2F;document&#x2F;munichs-long-history-open-source-public-administration" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;interoperable-europe.ec.europa.eu&#x2F;collection&#x2F;open-so...</a>:<p>&gt; By December 2013, the city concluded the migration, with over 14,800 desktops running on LiMux... In November 2017, nearly four years after the conclusion of the migration, the Munich city council adopted a decision overhauling the move. All equipment was to be refitted with Windows 10 counterparts by 2020 [1]<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Wienux" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Wienux</a>:<p>&gt; WIENUX[2] is a Debian-based Linux distribution developed by the City of Vienna in Austria... until 2008 when the download page was taken offline.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk&#x2F;documents&#x2F;POST-PN-414&#x2F;POST-PN-414.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk&#x2F;documents&#x2F;POST...</a>:<p>&gt; Birmingham City Council piloted OSS on hundreds of desktops in its public libraries in 2005-6. It originally planned to install Linux ... but this was over-ambitious for the time frame of the project and compatibility problems meant that the open source OpenOffice (office suite) and Firefox (web browser) were eventually run on Windows XP
  • selfsigned2 hours ago
    Really proud as a French, I think the government has had some success with moving to something matrix based for the public sector too. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tchap.numerique.gouv.fr" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tchap.numerique.gouv.fr</a><p>I just hope we end up having more wins at the EU-level, instead of massive fails like GAIA-X...
    • dbdr1 hour ago
      Also GendBuntu, a custom version of Ubuntu used by 100 000 stations (almost all) of the national gendarmerie.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;GendBuntu" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;GendBuntu</a>
    • Toine2 hours ago
      &quot;As a French&quot; ne veut rien dire en anglais. Il faut rajouter man, person ou quelquechose. Frenchman, French person, French citizen.
      • Mainan_Tagonist1 hour ago
        Pedantry attracts dislike. One may be right to state something, yet wrong to call it out in public.
        • traceroute6649 minutes ago
          &gt; Pedantry attracts dislike. One may be right to state something, yet wrong to call it out in public.<p>Ironically most French people I know would be perfectly receptive and happy to receive corrections in grammar, English or otherwise.<p>The French tend to be particularly pedantic about the teaching of their own grammar. Most native French speakers are quite used to being swiftly and firmly corrected on grammar from an early age.
          • Mainan_Tagonist7 minutes ago
            there is a time and place for everything. &quot;Les règles de bienséance&quot; matter more to me than the safekeeping of the exactness of English grammar, which as others have been keen to point out is hardly as strict as you seem to imply.<p>And no, no French person likes to receive corrections in grammar. Giving lectures on proper english grammar&#x2F;pronounciation is generally a mark of (classist) pedantry since speaking proper english is generally the preserve of those lucky few that have had the opportunity of spending time in the Anglosphere, a tiny minority of the french population in fact, who are always eager to put their one upmanship on display, in a very crude, almost vulgar fashion.<p>I have been travelling through Japan for the past week, the grammatical and orthographical error would likely give you a nosebleed. Meanwhile, I just smile and move on, I got the meaning, it is what matters. Same for the OP.
          • selfsigned7 minutes ago
            I&#x27;m not sure how happy they actually are about it though. I think most people have a bit of Stockholm-syndrome relationship with it, the highest tier of argument refutation in France might honestly be grammar-based :P<p>(And it did motivate me to go abroad.)
      • Mindless21121 hour ago
        The demonym for France is &quot;French,&quot; so it&#x27;s not wrong (even if it doesn&#x27;t sound right.)
        • japanoise1 hour ago
          It&#x27;s not <i>completely</i> wrong, it will be understood, but it is ungrammatical and a clear marker that the speaker is not native, similar to getting adjectives in the &#x27;wrong&#x27; order (&#x27;a big tasty sandwich&#x27; sounds more natural to a native speaker than &#x27;a tasty big sandwich&#x27;, even though the latter makes sense and will be understood).<p>Demonyms for historical neighbours of England have irregular forms when speaking of a particular person from there. Scotland has &#x27;Scot&#x27; and &#x27;Scotsman&#x27;; Wales has &#x27;Welshman&#x27;; Spain has &#x27;Spaniard&#x27;. Other countries indeed need a second word, such as &#x27;person&#x27; or &#x27;citizen&#x27; (&#x27;a Chinese&#x27; sounds offensive to me; I would say &#x27;a Chinese person&#x27; in all cases). The only country I can think of where using a bare demonym is grammatical when speaking of a single person from there is Germany with &#x27;a German&#x27; - probably because it has the suffix -man.<p>Edit: A sibling comment pointed out that &#x27;an American&#x27; is grammatical, and thinking about it, I think the suffix -an is what makes bare demonyms grammatical - you can say &#x27;an Angolan&#x27;, &#x27;a Laotian&#x27;, &#x27;a Peruvian&#x27;, &#x27;a Moroccan&#x27;, etc, but wouldn&#x27;t say &#x27;a Thai&#x27;, &#x27;a Swedish&#x27;, &#x27;a Sudanese&#x27;, etc.
          • traceroute6657 minutes ago
            &gt; but wouldn&#x27;t say &#x27;a Thai&#x27;, &#x27;a Swedish&#x27;, &#x27;a Sudanese&#x27;<p>You also don&#x27;t say &#x27;a Japanese&#x27; but that is an extremely common error with Japanese English speakers when they are first learning.<p>I am looking for a citation, but I seem to recall the casual rule of thumb is something to do with the ending of the nationality (so &#x27;-ish&#x27;, &#x27;-ese&#x27;,&#x27;-ch&#x27; etc. you can&#x27;t put &#x27;a&#x27; in front). I think the more formal explanation likely centers around rules relating to indefinite articles.
          • embedding-shape1 hour ago
            &gt; but it is ungrammatical and a clear marker that the speaker is not native<p>You mean a native speaker might be ungrammatical when using their non-native language? That makes sense to me.<p>&gt; Spain has &#x27;Spaniard&#x27;.<p>Even so, you&#x27;ll hear a ton of native Spanish people saying &quot;As a Spanish person&quot; or &quot;As person from Spain&quot; instead of simply &quot;As a Spaniard&quot;, I&#x27;m not sure this is very surprising. If anything, that mistake makes it more likely they&#x27;re a native than not, in the case of Spain, as the level of English outside of metropolitan areas is lacking at best, compared to other European countries.
            • japanoise1 hour ago
              I&#x27;m using the words &#x27;grammatical&#x27; and &#x27;ungrammatical&#x27; in a linguistic sense; human languages are subtle and fluid, and one doesn&#x27;t have to be far along the sliding scale between &#x27;doesn&#x27;t speak a word&#x27; and &#x27;well-educated native speaker&#x27; to be understood. We speak of &#x27;broken&#x27; English when somebody is able to be understood but hasn&#x27;t fully grasped the language yet; using demonyms incorrectly is a subtler flavor of the same thing. For example &#x27;no come here&#x27; -&gt; &#x27;no entering&#x27; -&gt; &#x27;no entry&#x27;
          • evanjrowley1 hour ago
            When speaking English, the French side of my family refers to themselves like that often, however, they&#x27;re from Bretagne, so exactly how French they are is up for debate.
          • wrboyce52 minutes ago
            As a Welshman, I’d say North&#x2F;South Walian are more common among the populace!
        • traceroute661 hour ago
          No.<p>&quot;French&quot; is adjective or a collective noun, but don&#x27;t use it as a countable noun.<p>Trying to say &quot;as a French&quot; makes about as much sense as thinking &quot;as a American&quot; is correct.<p>As has already been said ... &quot;a French (wo)man&quot;,&quot;a French person&quot;,&quot;a French citizen&quot; is the correct way to go.<p>The reason you can say &quot;<i>an</i> American&quot; is because America starts with a vowel.<p>Same reason why you would not say &quot;a British&quot; but you could say &quot;a Brit&quot;.
          • woodruffw1 hour ago
            Demonyms don’t use the same rules as countable nouns. Both “French” and “British” are acceptable demonyms, they’re just not particularly idiomatic in American English (which likes to overcorrect with “person” like you’ve noted).<p>(There’s no particularly consistency with this, it’s just what sounds “good” to American ears. We’re perfectly fine with “as a German” or “as a Lithuanian.”)
            • traceroute661 hour ago
              &gt; Both “French” and “British” are acceptable demonyms<p>No they are not.<p>The Oxford English Dictionary, for example makes it quite clear re. &#x27;French&#x27;:<p><pre><code> &quot;With plural agreement, and frequently with &#x27;the&#x27; French people regarded collectively ...&quot; </code></pre> I draw your attention to the first three words ... &quot;with plural agreement&quot;.<p>It is explicitly telling you that &quot;French&quot; is a collective plural noun and hence cannot be used as a singular countable noun.
          • mistrial91 hour ago
            a French; an American; a Brit, or a British<p>sounds casual but correct to me
            • traceroute661 hour ago
              &gt; sounds casual but correct to me<p>I don&#x27;t care if it &quot;sounds ok to me&quot;.<p>If you&#x27;re going to make statements like that to go against what I&#x27;ve written then at least come up with some viable citations to grammar literature.<p>Honestly, in all my years on this earth I have never, ever heard anybody in any English speaking country I&#x27;ve spent time in say &quot;a French&quot; &quot;a American&quot; &quot;a British&quot;.<p>And that amounts to a lot of time surrounded by people speaking <i>VERY</i> &quot;casual&quot; English.<p>P.S. I said &quot;an American&quot; was ok if you re-read.. an <i>NOT</i> a
              • MarceColl1 hour ago
                The reason you can say &quot;an American&quot; has nothing to do with a vowel or not, there are just some demonyms that for some reason can be used like this, and some that can&#x27;t.<p>For example:<p>* German is countable: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com&#x2F;definition&#x2F;english&#x2F;german_2" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com&#x2F;definition&#x2F;englis...</a> * French is uncountable: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com&#x2F;definition&#x2F;english&#x2F;french_2" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com&#x2F;definition&#x2F;englis...</a> * American is countable: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com&#x2F;definition&#x2F;english&#x2F;american_1?q=American" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com&#x2F;definition&#x2F;englis...</a> * Spanish is uncountable: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com&#x2F;definition&#x2F;english&#x2F;spanish_2" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com&#x2F;definition&#x2F;englis...</a><p>But your explanation about why it is correct is bullshit, has nothing to do with &quot;an&quot; vs &quot;a&quot;, the English language is just inconsistent as fuck and some demonyms can be used like this and some can&#x27;t.
        • estimator72921 hour ago
          Technically yes the demonym is &quot;French&quot;, but &quot;I&#x27;m a French&quot; just doesn&#x27;t work in English. The word &#x27;French&#x27; is almost exclusively used in English as an adjective or the name of the language. It is never used as a noun for anything else. So in context, it reads as an adjective without a paired noun.<p>In English, you have to disambiguate be adding a noun: French person, French citizen, or Frenchman if you&#x27;re old and inconsiderate.<p>Similarly, we don&#x27;t call people &quot;a Chinese&quot;. That construction is considered derogatory, if not outright racist. Demonyms typically cannot be used as nouns alone without a suffix. &quot;A Brazilian&quot; or &quot;a Spaniard&quot; are acceptable.<p>As usual for English, the rules are vague and inconsistent.
          • traceroute661 hour ago
            &gt; &quot;A Brazilian&quot; or &quot;a Spaniard&quot; are acceptable.<p>Well, context is important on the Brazilian front. ;)<p>&quot;I had a brazilian at my house&quot; could have other connotations.
            • Ylpertnodi1 hour ago
              How many did you have at your house?
          • Ylpertnodi1 hour ago
            &gt; or Frenchman if you&#x27;re old and inconsiderate.<p>Or talking about a man that is French. Neither of which would be considered &#x27;old&#x27;, or &#x27;inconsiderate&quot;.
      • gib4441 hour ago
        Nor &quot;Frenchie&quot; while we&#x27;re on the topic. It sounds really weird. It&#x27;s also commonly used to refer to a french bulldog !
        • japanoise50 minutes ago
          I would think of using &#x27;Frenchie&#x27; to refer to a person as being affectionate banter. Like &#x27;Yank&#x27; for Americans or &#x27;Canuck&#x27; for Canadians. It&#x27;s not incorrect, but would be inappropriate outside of an informal context.<p>French people have &#x27;rosbif&#x27; to refer to the English and Australians have &#x27;pom&#x27; or &#x27;pommie&#x27;. You wouldn&#x27;t call the prime minister that at a diplomatic event, but it&#x27;s not offensive to call your friends that.
  • redoh2 hours ago
    The difference between this and Munich&#x27;s attempt is that France has been building up gradually. They already run Tchap (Matrix-based) for government messaging, and the gendarmerie switched to Linux years ago with over 70k desktops. Munich tried a big-bang migration without enough internal expertise and caved under political pressure when MS moved their HQ there. Schleswig-Holstein in Germany is taking the same incremental approach now and seeing better results. The pattern is pretty clear: governments that treat it as a multi-year capability build succeed, those that treat it as a licensing swap don&#x27;t.
    • gib4441 hour ago
      &gt; Munich tried a big-bang migration without enough internal expertise and caved under political pressure<p>Almost sounds planned to fail...
  • jhawk2812 minutes ago
    AI finding vulnerabilities in open source software is going to make it super unpleasant for a time. I expect there to be a shift back to closed source until we get through that period.
    • omgwtfbyobbq8 minutes ago
      That&#x27;s also a benefit to some degree. Closed source likely has as many vulnerabilities and bugs, but if AI can&#x27;t find them it&#x27;ll progressively become less secure.
  • e-dant2 hours ago
    Microsoft is a strategic risk for the US, too
    • trinsic22 hours ago
      Exactly. I have been thinking about using this migration articles as a way to convince my customers to switch.
  • cmiles825 minutes ago
    They’re still going the almost certainly end up running this on US designed chips, with US designed networking equipment and a bunch of other assets tied back to US companies. They should do what they want, but it’s “sovereignty theater” at best.
    • omgwtfbyobbq1 minute ago
      I wouldn&#x27;t say that. I think it&#x27;s a proportional response to US tarriffs&#x2F;changes in foreign policy under the current administration, just like the cancellation of defence contracts&#x2F;orders.<p>It&#x27;s unrealistic for any nation to do everything themselves, but they can make some changes in response to the US starting trade wars, ditching foreign policy&#x2F;climate objectives, etc...
    • ghighi787824 minutes ago
      You always have to start somewhere. Whether this will succeed or not is not known, but you do have to start somewhere.
  • BLKNSLVR6 hours ago
    Dupe: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=47719486">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=47719486</a>
  • tjarjoura53 minutes ago
    This sounds interesting on paper but I wonder how likely it is they actually pull it off. Even putting aside the logistics of installing new oses across a bunch of workstations, migrating from legacy Active Directory domains is something even small enterprises struggle with.
  • gsky3 hours ago
    Finally Europe grew a spine
    • bpavuk3 hours ago
      still growing, you mean. France is, however significant, just one country. and then there is broader push to FOSS inside Europe, as well as Europe&#x27;s own sovereign solutions. some attempts were failed, some were successful, but everything is still in progress<p>EDIT: on a second read, this sounded too diminishing of this achievement than I intended. the point is that it&#x27;s not fully done yet, although it is remarkable that there is, finally, a political will for such actions
      • sdoering2 hours ago
        Sadly back in the day the city of Munich caved in (hosting Germany&#x27;s MS headquarter). They had a good good run with their Linux. But the state of Schleswig-Holstein is pushing for more open source and switching to Libre Office (80% or so done). They talk about that on their Open Source Initiative page [1].<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.schleswig-holstein.de&#x2F;DE&#x2F;landesregierung&#x2F;themen&#x2F;digitalisierung&#x2F;linux-plus1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.schleswig-holstein.de&#x2F;DE&#x2F;landesregierung&#x2F;themen&#x2F;...</a> (German only)
    • breppp2 hours ago
      Less so against China or Iran, presumably Europe will find itself on the &quot;right side of history&quot; yet again soon enough
      • embedding-shape1 hour ago
        At least so against Israel and other countries actively engaging in open warfare against sovereign nations, as a European I&#x27;m very happy we&#x27;re not getting pulled into those senseless conflicts.
      • watwut21 minutes ago
        Europe does not need to join war of the Trumps whim just because king demands it.
      • redsocksfan451 hour ago
        [dead]
  • M95D1 hour ago
    I fear this might be just license costs cutting and not something that Linux and FOSS will benefit from.
    • samrus1 hour ago
      Why wouldnt linux and FOSS benefit from usage? At the least it result in social validation, if not bug reports
      • M95D30 minutes ago
        Social validation brings incompetent users expecting something like Windows that &quot;just works&quot;.<p>Even if they could bring some bug reports... We have lots of those already! We have decades of ignored bug reports.
    • ur-whale1 hour ago
      &gt; I fear this might be just license costs cutting and not something that Linux and FOSS will benefit from.<p>yup, at this point, nothing but cobwebs and IOU&#x27;s left in the coffers over there and every little bit of saving helps.
  • _ink_1 hour ago
    Glad that France takes the lead, that Germany fumbled. Allez Les Blues!
    • mrits1 hour ago
      France hasn&#x27;t taken the lead. They haven&#x27;t done anything. This will be abandoned by this time next year.
  • jlnthws31 minutes ago
    Nice! Now moving from Windows to Linux is the &quot;easy&quot;, visible part. Replacing US cloud + US AI dependence end to end is much harder, and that’s the real deal today.
  • clickety_clack2 hours ago
    Even the US government should be considering this.
  • peter-m802 hours ago
    should be done at EU level and make it mandatory for all members
    • harvey92 hours ago
      France has been doing this in parts of its government functions for years, building expertise and learning what works. What do you imagine the EU institutions would bring to the table?
      • dbdr1 hour ago
        Good on France for doing that work.<p>More countries and&#x2F;or EU involvement could bring economies of scale: apart from translation, a lot of work on fixing bugs and adding features to the relevant open source projects can be done once and benefit all. So either get the same results faster, more cheaply per country, or both. Sure, that adds some bureaucracy and coordination cost too, but should be worth it overall.
      • picsao2 hours ago
        [dead]
    • roysting2 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • EinigeKreise1 hour ago
        You forgot the part where the countries voluntarily join the organisation. By the way, the commission is subject to a vote of confidence by the parliament, which is directly elected. I&#x27;m pretty sure you don&#x27;t get to directly vote for your cabinet members either, wherever you are.
        • hn_throw20251 hour ago
          &gt; You forgot the part where the countries voluntarily join the organisation.<p>It might be worth examining the word “countries” there.<p>Both France and the Netherlands rejected the proposed EU Constitution by referendum in 2005. It was then regurgitated as the Lisbon Treaty (with only superficial changes) in 2007, which was ratified with no public vote.<p>The Irish people initially rejected both the EU-empowering treaties of Nice and Lisbon, and a followup vote was considered necessary. You get two bites of the democratic cherry if you have enough power.<p>A majority of the British people voted to leave in 2016, and in the three years that followed everything possible was done to reverse the decision.<p>You might be spotting here a difference in desires and power between the governors and the governed.
          • gib44459 minutes ago
            &gt; and in the three years that followed everything possible was done to reverse the decision<p>News to me (as a Brit). Maybe my memory is hazy. Got any detail?
  • casey24 hours ago
    But Linux is US tech? Isn&#x27;t the main guy American?
    • jll293 hours ago
      Linus Torvalds created Linux as a student in Helsinki, Finnland. He later took U.S. citizenship and lives in Portland, Oregon, TTBOMK.<p>Now on some level, the question makes less sense, because Linux as we know it now is an international proejct that thousands of developers from dozens of countries collaborated on. But perhaps most would agree that Torvalds, who serves as main integrator, has more say than others regarding the directions of Linux, as long as he is alive.<p>The open source property of Linux is more important to the question which OS a country&#x27;s government should adopt: corporate systems are hard to scrutinize, whereas open source systems you can inspect and compile yourself, and it is a wise move of the French government to go in that direction. It will also save a lot of money, but that should not be the primary motive.
    • mirpa3 hours ago
      It is open source. Many companies which contribute to it are American, but nobody from America can tell you what you can or cannot do with it - unlike Microsoft or Apple with their proprietary OS being forced by US government.
      • rzerowan3 hours ago
        Funnily enough there is some level of control that can be exerted by the US gov via the distros (at least the major ones - see legalese restrictions on Redhat&#x2F;Ubuntu etc when you want to download , stating the various US gov laws&#x2F;sanctions that they follow) and also via the kernel - i think some time back Russian kernel maintainers were removed.<p>So Open source it may be , however there are still pressure points that can be used. I believe this is one of the main reasons RISCV foundation moved to Europe.
        • roblabla2 hours ago
          Europe has a major distro in the form of SUSE, so that’s not too worrying.<p>Even if upstream linux banned european contributors, there are enough european contributors that a fork would just emerge. So I’m really not too worried about that happening.
          • Symbiote1 hour ago
            Two if you mean Europe more generally, as Ubuntu is British.
    • hdgvhicv3 hours ago
      The “main guy” is Finnish. He also got American citizenship recently, but given the US has increased attacks on naturalised citizens [0] and has a history of this [1] it’s not a solid foundation.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2026&#x2F;01&#x2F;16&#x2F;nx-s1-5677685&#x2F;as-focus-shifts-to-denaturalization-what-protections-do-foreign-born-americans-have" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2026&#x2F;01&#x2F;16&#x2F;nx-s1-5677685&#x2F;as-focus-shifts...</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Internment_of_Japanese_Americans" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Internment_of_Japanese_America...</a>
      • drstewart2 hours ago
        If Japanese internment worried you, you should see Europe&#x27;s treatment of perceived outsiders [0] and get reallyyyy worried about the ongoing attacks [1] and rhetoric [2]. I would urge extreme caution to anyone in Europe that is at risk.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ein.org.uk&#x2F;news&#x2F;home-office-remove-euss-pre-settled-status-individuals-who-have-clearly-ceased-maintain" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ein.org.uk&#x2F;news&#x2F;home-office-remove-euss-pre-sett...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ft.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;0e29224f-9d06-4315-a89f-e334ffbc6d39?syn-25a6b1a6=1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ft.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;0e29224f-9d06-4315-a89f-e334ffbc6...</a><p>Also, what nationality do you say Elon Musk is, out of curiosity? Let&#x27;s test your consistency :)
        • embedding-shape1 hour ago
          &gt; Expulsion of Jews from Spain [...] On 31 March 1492, the Catholic Monarchs of Spain, King Ferdinand II of Aragon and Queen Isabella I of Castile, issued the Alhambra Decree, ordering all unconverted Jews to leave their kingdoms and territories by the end of July that year, unless they converted to Christianity<p>Someone correct me if I&#x27;m wrong, but we (I live in Spain) have come a long way since 1492 (534 years ago) and if that&#x27;s the most recent example you can find of &quot;Europe&#x27;s treatment of perceived outsiders&quot; I think you yourself know that stuff like that doesn&#x27;t happen today, in Europe.
          • erikerikson1 hour ago
            In the UK two decades ago (admittedly not the shortest time) I heard plenty of terrible words and treatment of Pakistanis (which seemed to be used as a good enough bucket for all brown skinned people) and people with red hair. A general disdain for Continentals was a little more subdued. When I was younger France was famous for it&#x27;s poor treatment of foreigners and non-francophiles. Consider all the politics and anger towards those that continue to try to cross the Mediterranean on makeshift boats or the constant complaints about &quot;benefit thieves&quot; who emigrate from the Eastern bloc. There are many examples and some of them are not without basis but while things have gotten less stabby-stabby there&#x27;s some fairly brutal attitudes and behaviors.
            • embedding-shape1 hour ago
              &gt; There are many examples and some of them are not without basis but while things have gotten less stabby-stabby there&#x27;s some fairly brutal attitudes and behaviors.<p>Yeah, I won&#x27;t claim that everyone is treated equally or even fairly in Europe, and some places are absolutely worse than others, in many different ways.<p>I&#x27;d still claim we no longer do &quot;expulsions&quot; of entire ethnoreligious groups anymore in the 21st century though, which was the initial example of why Europe today is terrible.
              • erikerikson49 minutes ago
                I agree things have improved but the GP to my first post set context to:<p>&gt; Europe&#x27;s treatment of perceived outsiders<p>You seemed to be picking a rather narrow slice of the scope.
          • hdgvhicv30 minutes ago
            A more relevant recent example would be the shameful stripping of British citizenship from a girl who had been trafficked to the Middle East
            • watwut17 minutes ago
              They got radicalized and went there voluntarly
          • samrus1 hour ago
            Tbf theres a much more recent example of legitimate antisemitism in europe. One around the same time as us interment of japanese people
        • hdgvhicv18 minutes ago
          Musk collects citizenships like they’re going out of fashion. He fled South’s Africa due to not wanting to be drafted.<p>Lieutenant Torvalds on the other hand fulfilled his service duties.<p>Should the US and South Africa go to war it seems clear where musks loyalties would lie. Should the US and Finland go to war I suspect that Torvalds wouldn’t be as clear cut.
        • ajross2 hours ago
          Didn&#x27;t have &quot;Europe is antisemitic because of the Spanish Inquisition&quot; on my bingo card today. No one expects it, indeed.
          • bootsmann2 hours ago
            The other two are ok-ish (though notably Reform is not in government and the elections are 4 years away) but yeah leading with a source from the 15th century really doesn’t support the argument.
            • TheOtherHobbes1 hour ago
              The UK Home Office decision about settled status is the fault of the UK, not the EU.<p>The FT piece is paywalled. But two prominent members of Reform are currently in jail - one for domestic abuse, and one for treason (!) - so the party is not famous for a steely dedication to the moral high ground.
          • drstewart2 hours ago
            I have more evidence of European xenophobia if that isn&#x27;t sufficient for you
            • kakacik2 hours ago
              I dont think you travel much, it would help you get more... objective opinions. But yes please show us that mighty evidence
        • 9483828285282 hours ago
          How will we cope when all of your precious knife-wielding savages are deported?<p>Oh, the terror.
    • bogeholm4 hours ago
      Just Wiki Linus Torvalds my friend:<p>&gt; Torvalds was born in Helsinki, Finland<p>&gt; In 2004, Torvalds moved with his family from Silicon Valley to Portland, Oregon.
    • redat004 hours ago
      ?
    • boomskats4 hours ago
      No, and no?<p>...what?
    • GardenLetter274 hours ago
      Yeah, he became American, just like Einstein, Fermi, Von Neumann, etc.<p>There&#x27;s a big lesson for Europe there, everyone super productive and able to move to the US does so at the first opportunity.
      • skillina3 hours ago
        You might want to do a bit more reading on why European intellectuals migrated en masse to the US in the 1930s.
        • pseudony2 hours ago
          Definitely. And then one could start wondering if the direction might reverse.
          • Aerroon1 hour ago
            It would take something miraculous for the direction to reverse towards Europe. People have been complaining about European tech, economy, and freedoms (as in free speech) for decades now. Things have become worse on all of these fronts.<p>I think the AI act is a great example here. The EU came up with regulation for an emerging technology that basically killed the chance for Europe to compete. Lots of people disagreed with this criticism when the act was debated, but it turns out the critics were right. Europe will be buying AI services from elsewhere because Europe wasn&#x27;t able to compete.<p>This entire way of thinking in Europe would need to reverse for there to be a chance that the brain drain changes course.
          • znort_1 hour ago
            to europe? hardly. maybe to east asia ...
            • T-A58 minutes ago
              <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;time.com&#x2F;7379376&#x2F;scientist-migration-us-to-europe&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;time.com&#x2F;7379376&#x2F;scientist-migration-us-to-europe&#x2F;</a>
      • bogeholm4 hours ago
        Yeah, um…<p>That might have changed somewhat, recently.
      • drivingmenuts3 hours ago
        When the US is being run by relatively sane people, it&#x27;s great.<p>That is not the situation at the moment.
  • drstewart2 hours ago
    Is this the daily thread on this topic?<p>Astroturfing around this is getting suspicious.
    • e2le2 hours ago
      &gt; Astroturfing around this is getting suspicious.<p>It&#x27;s perfectly possible for people to be passionate about the subject.
      • drstewart2 hours ago
        I&#x27;ve never met a real human that was passionate about what OS a government worker in some local French commune uses, but it&#x27;s the hottest topic on HN behind AI
        • samrus1 hour ago
          Most of the passion is around being felt exploited my american tech giants and feeling hopeful at seeing large respectable institutions divest from them. Thats legit, not astroturfed
        • EinigeKreise1 hour ago
          I do care for them setting an example for <i>my</i> local government.
        • embedding-shape1 hour ago
          Right, what about FOSS developers who care about what guidelines the entire country has regarding OS usage? Maybe I&#x27;m living in a bubble, but everyone (mostly Europeans to be fair) seems excited about moving away from US technologies.<p>This move isn&#x27;t just &quot;Local French commune thinks about Linux&quot;, it&#x27;s &quot;French government agency that can mandate what others do, set hard guideline for agencies and magistrates to come up with a concrete plan for how to move to Linux&quot;, which is worlds beyond what we&#x27;ve seen before.
        • redsocksfan4544 minutes ago
          [dead]
    • Mashimo2 hours ago
      &gt; Astroturfing around this is getting suspicious.<p>Nah, linux and &quot;$curreant_year is the year of the linux desktop&quot; is just something the hacker &#x2F; maker &#x2F; nerd scene is passionate about.
    • bombcar2 hours ago
      I remember similar articles being posted 20+ years ago on Slashdot. And as we’ve seen, it’s often less of a “use Linux” and more of a “we have an alternate vendor” and there’s often suspicious lock-in (see the case in the EU or some similar country where the vendor was <i>reading emails</i>).
      • dbdr1 hour ago
        At least in some cases, it&#x27;s actually using Linux and open document format, e.g. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;GendBuntu" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;GendBuntu</a>
  • ArtTimeInvestor4 hours ago
    It is a step into the right direction.<p>Over time, more and more work is going to be done by AI though. At some point, it will be unthinkably slow and expensive to let humans work on anything.<p>To do *that* locally, you need GPUs and LLMs.<p>How will Europe solve these two?
    • arter451 hour ago
      Not all AI uses LLM, and for some common LLM applications like summarization and translation you can already use CPU only models. The government, or even your average employer, is not going to need a lot of AI video generation or other really GPU intensive tasks. Prompt processing is currently more GPU oriented, but I don&#x27;t see it as an impossible challenge given, say, 10-15 years.<p>Also, CPU-only doesn&#x27;t necessarily mean &quot;on your own computer&quot;. You can easily have 100 TB RAM in a couple of racks.
    • Joeri4 hours ago
      The EU chips act is subsidizing new fab construction in Europe.<p>Meanwhile the french Mistral is partnering with Nvidia to build an AI data center near Paris on which their LLMs will run.<p>But I agree this is not enough to make the EU a contender in the race with the US and China. The EU still has not seriously considered decoupling from American big tech.
    • tonyedgecombe1 hour ago
      Do you people have to squeeze a comment about AI into <i>every</i> post?
    • m_mueller4 hours ago
      I think it depends on how strong the compression advancements are going to be, such that much can be done locally in the future. I&#x27;d be interested in experiences of others here in using Gemma4, which is at the forefront of &quot;intelligence per gigabyte&quot; atm. (according to benches).
    • ErroneousBosh4 hours ago
      No-one needs LLMs.<p>AI has no value.
      • samrus1 hour ago
        Im skeptical of the AGI claims but this is a bit too far in the toher direction. I use it to turn designs to code all the time
      • corndoge4 hours ago
        At this point in the broader dialogue your position is roughly as interesting as flat earth. Only bored people are going to bother replying and no one is taking you seriously. Don&#x27;t do yourself a disservice by clinging to this.
        • ErroneousBosh2 hours ago
          Okay, give me one example of what AI might be useful for.
          • Mashimo2 hours ago
            As a learning tool to quiz you.
            • ErroneousBosh1 hour ago
              Okay, and what value would that provide?<p>I&#x27;m not interested in games.
              • Mashimo1 hour ago
                The value is that you can have an effective tool to learn something new. I&#x27;m not quite sure I understand your question.
                • ErroneousBosh35 minutes ago
                  Okay, I don&#x27;t think it would be all that effective and I don&#x27;t see how it could be.<p>I learn things by doing them, not by playing guessing games.
                • samrus1 hour ago
                  I think your wasting your time arguing with him bro
      • 7bit4 hours ago
        The chariot was superior! Who needs them darn cars
        • nickserv3 hours ago
          My grandpa was doing just fine before those newfangled chariots became all the rage. What&#x27;s wrong with walking?
          • tosti2 hours ago
            I, for one, have never needed AI for anything ever in my life.<p>AI has, however, made my life noticably worse. Especially when dealing with braindead robot driven customer &quot;support&quot;. But also in making it financially impossible to buy more RAM or upgrade a GPU.<p>I think we&#x27;d be better off without yet another bubble.
            • Nasrudith2 hours ago
              Were you born yesterday? Phone AIs being dumb didn&#x27;t take LLMs at all. They were always stupid and frustrating to deal with substitutes for customer support.