3 comments

  • dvt1 hour ago
    This blog post gets <i>way</i> too caught up in Gödel numbers, which are merely a technical detail (specifically how the encoding is done is irrelevant). A clever detail, but a detail nonetheless. Author gets lost in the sauce and kind of misses the forest for the trees. In class, we used Löb&#x27;s Theorem[1] to prove Gödel, which is much more grokkable (and arguably even <i>more</i> clever). If you truly get Löb, it&#x27;ll kind of blow your mind.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;inference-review.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;loebs-theorem-and-currys-paradox" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;inference-review.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;loebs-theorem-and-curry...</a>
    • qnleigh37 minutes ago
      Yeah, I think it would be better to first explain the liar&#x27;s paradox to give the broad brush strokes, and then go into the details of Gôdel numbering.<p>It seems like most expositions of Gödel&#x27;s incompleteness theorem go into a surprising amount of detail about Gödel numbering. In a way it&#x27;s nice though, because you see that the proof is actually pretty elementary and doesn&#x27;t require fancy math as a prerequisite.
  • qnleigh22 minutes ago
    I feel like it&#x27;s nice to get the gist before diving into the gory details. The proof works by showing that just within the axioms of arithmetic, you can formally state the sentence &quot;this sentence is unprovable.&quot; This has some very strange consequences:<p>- It can&#x27;t be false, because if it&#x27;s false then it is provable, and &#x27;provable&#x27; means &#x27; can be proven to be true.&#x27; So this is a contraction.<p>- So therefore it must be true. Consequently there are statements that are true but unprovable, even just within the axioms of arithmetic.<p>This is Gödel&#x27;s incompleteness theorem in a nutshell. Most of the proof is spent developing machinery for doing logic, talking about provability, and ultimately getting a statement to refer to itself all using integers and their properties. It&#x27;s quite satisfying because it doesn&#x27;t require any super-advanced math, and yet the result is very deep.
    • qnleigh3 minutes ago
      You might say &quot;but wait, haven&#x27;t we just proven that it&#x27;s true? So isn&#x27;t that also a contradiction?&quot; This would be a disaster, because it would prove that the axioms of arithmetic are inconsistent! Now 1+1=3 for all we know.<p>The catch is that when we proved that the sentence is not false, we used proof by contradiction, and for proof by contradiction to be a valid method of proof, we need to assume that the axioms we are working with are consistent (and therefore can&#x27;t produce a contradiction). So really all we have proved is that either:<p>- the sentence is true<p>Or<p>- the axioms of arithmetic are inconsistent<p>We can&#x27;t prove that the axioms of arithmetic are consistent, so we haven&#x27;t actually proven that the sentence is true.<p>This issue is actually a major part of Gödel&#x27;s theorem; we can only avoid a paradox of the axioms of arithmetic can&#x27;t prove their own consistency. These theorems apply to any system of axioms that are rich enough to state the liar&#x27;s paradox.
  • txhwind1 hour ago
    The proof will be more friendly to nowadays programmers if we treat all &quot;Gödel numbers&quot; as bytecode of a programming language. It&#x27;s trivial that functions like &quot;prove&quot; and &quot;subst&quot; can be implemented based on abilities like bytecode parsing and expression tree manipulation.