14 comments

  • maerF0x02 hours ago
    They tell us over and over again that we should have no expectation of privacy or not being filmed in public. Well, IMO they should not have any expectation of privacy or not being filmed when on private property and conducting the work _that we pay for_. They work for us.
    • ykl1 hour ago
      That is not just your opinion, that is the opinion of multiple United States Court of Appeals circuits in many many cases, and by its declining to overturn these cases, that is also the opinion of the United States Supreme Court. The United States is a common law country, so really what that means is that your opinion is actually not an opinion at all; you have simply stated the established law of the land.
    • borski56 minutes ago
      That is, in fact, what the law says and what the courts have agreed with multiple times.
    • avs7331 hour ago
      and I imagine that if the INVERSE of this case had come up, the police suing for defamation would have been protected by qualified immunity so no lawsuit would have been possible.<p>The police being able to leverage civil law against citizens to control their behavior in ways that citizens cannot leverage against cannot to comment on the abuse of power is entirely unacceptable no matter what our laws and judiciary chose to allow.
    • bestouff1 hour ago
      &gt; They work for us.<p>Ooh sweet summer child.
      • schiffern1 hour ago
        Cynicism is very cooler-than-thou, but it&#x27;s not because we don&#x27;t know better.<p>It&#x27;s because we <i>do</i> know how the system fails, and holding power accountable to those high aspirations is the only thing that pushes back the equilibrium.
      • maerF0x041 minutes ago
        I understand what you&#x27;re saying, but I was speaking in the ideal or purpose, rather than the defacto&#x2F;pragmatic.
      • hbn46 minutes ago
        It&#x27;s logistically a fact. Their paycheck comes from taxpayers. If you believe they&#x27;re doing a bad job it&#x27;s unrelated.
        • notlenin17 minutes ago
          er... if you&#x27;ll excuse me confirming the &quot;HN is the &#x27;well actually capital of the internet&#x27; stereotype&quot;...<p>If you look throughout history, you&#x27;ll see that before the advent of what we&#x27;d call &#x27;modern states&#x27;, most people who got their paycheck from &#x27;taxpayers&#x27; did not see themselves as working for said &#x27;taxpayers&#x27;.<p>Example: Pharaonic Egypt. Alexander&#x27;s Empire, Bourbon France, Tsarist Russia, or more generally <i>any</i> kingdom, empire or any sort of duchy&#x2F;earldom&#x2F;county&#x2F;etc where you have someone (the King, Tsar, Emperor, Duke, etc), whose job it is to lord over the peasants and take a cut of their work, not because they are an elected public servant doing the will of The People, but because they believe God Almighty has decreed that living off the wealth of others, and occasionally wasting large amounts of that wealth on building palaces or waging costly wars is what they were born to do.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Divine_right_of_kings" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Divine_right_of_kings</a><p>as such, if you view the modern state as &quot;basically an oligarchy masquerading as a democracy&quot;, then the police are not in fact working for &#x27;Joe Taxpayer&#x27;, but are just playing the same role that medival knights played for the Kings of France - they are the armed force of the extractive state, whose job it is to keep the peasants in line via violence so that they can continue to live off the fruits of peasant labor.
      • gonnagetbanned1 hour ago
        well, to be fair, there are a higher-than-average number of business owners on here, so they really might work for them
        • cucumber37328421 hour ago
          Only insofar as those business interests align with the government&#x27;s interests.<p>The police get paid by and do the bidding of the government. They work for the government.<p>While you can screech about the degree of overlap between government interests and big business interests, and it absolutely is something worth screeching about, acting as though they are one in the same is counterproductive to understanding either.
          • notlenin14 minutes ago
            yes.<p>It is also worth noting that in some cases, government and business owners have diametrically opposed interests - namely governments can nationalize companies (and if I&#x27;m not mistaken, some governments, like the Nazis, did, or would use the threat of nationalization to make business owners do their bidding with no regard for the interest of the business owner)
  • duxup1 hour ago
    &gt; In one of the music videos, “Will You Help Me Repair My Door,” surveillance footage shows officers swinging open a gate, kicking down a door, and roaming armed around a living room and a kitchen.<p>&gt;The other, “Lemon Pound Cake,” shows one of the officers, gun in hand, pausing briefly in Mr. Foreman’s kitchen by a cake inside a glass cloche. “It made the sheriff want to put down his gun and cut him a slice,” Mr. Foreman sings in the song.<p>The man has a sense of humor.
    • asveikau1 hour ago
      Seems like the Streisand effect to me. Suing him over this calls attention to the inappropriateness of police raiding his house. I hadn&#x27;t heard this story and now I took away from it some embarrassing stories about the cops.
    • dmix59 minutes ago
      He&#x27;s also a savvy businessman, this will be great for his career
    • mytailorisrich48 minutes ago
      The lemon pound cake first features in the first video, &quot;Will You Help Me Repair My Door&quot; and seems to have become popular (a chubby sheriff deputy glancing at a lemon pound cake, gun in hand is a viral godsend!) so he made that second video about it [1] and it completely took off. I have watched videos outside the courthouse after the verdict and supporters were even handing free lemon pound cakes [2]. Has the apple pie got competition?<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;9xxK5yyecRo?si=rnz34IxCeFPRKQ4M" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;9xxK5yyecRo?si=rnz34IxCeFPRKQ4M</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;pSEOiu0RvLk?si=xx2ZrN1rzEg3n1Ve" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;pSEOiu0RvLk?si=xx2ZrN1rzEg3n1Ve</a>
  • Reubachi4 hours ago
    &quot;Mr. Foreman was not at home during the 2002 police raid, but a security camera system and his wife, using her cellphone, recorded the “faces and bodies” of the officers while they were on the property, according to the lawsuit&quot;<p>&quot;2002&quot; New York Times, everyone.<p>Props to afroman for his perfect demeanor&#x2F;attitude during all this.
    • esprehn4 hours ago
      2022. I&#x27;m not sure phones recorded useful video in 2002.
      • refulgentis4 hours ago
        Right. It’s a little hard to parse but they’re saying “The NYT has a typo”
        • netsharc2 hours ago
          And what he&#x27;s implying. &quot;The NYT has a typo, it&#x27;s all garbage!&quot;
          • amiga3862 hours ago
            They&#x27;re implying &quot;An establishment calling itself a &#x27;newspaper of record&#x27; can be expected to have high standards, such as correctly reporting dates, and I&#x27;ll hold them to that&quot;<p>If you can spot a typo in the first few seconds of reading a piece, so can the editor and sub-editor before it&#x27;s published.
            • ddellacosta2 hours ago
              Myself and most other programmers I know have at least once (more like 100 times) had the experience where you can&#x27;t figure something out in some code you&#x27;ve been staring at for an hour, then another person comes along and immediately sees an obvious glaring error that you missed.<p>I can only imagine the same thing happens in newsrooms with text, especially when it is visibly very similar, like &quot;2002&quot; and &quot;2022.&quot;
              • Dansvidania2 hours ago
                Youd expect them to have a checklist too though.
              • tehjoker1 hour ago
                Newspapers used to have copyeditors for this kind of thing. I thought NYT still did.
                • refulgentis52 minutes ago
                  They do and yet they also can make errors
            • madaxe_again1 hour ago
              The process these days is more like publish <i>then</i> do editorial review. See it on major outlets all the time - break the story as early as possible, get the eyeballs and ad revenue, then get it cleaned up for posterity.<p>Sometimes this results in radical changes to a piece within hours of publication - yesterday for instance the BBC ran a piece headlined something like “I watched my father murder my mother”, and six hours later in slides an editorial correction saying “she did not, in fact, see her father murder her mother. She was asleep in another room at the time.”
    • tolerance1 hour ago
      There used to be a Twitter account that pointed out typos like this—I think exclusively—in the NYT.
    • newobj29 minutes ago
      Surprised they didn&#x27;t write 2ÖÖ2, knowing the Times&#x27; predilections
      • nightpool10 minutes ago
        You&#x27;re thinking of the New Yorker, not the New York Times.
  • fny2 hours ago
    I <i>highly</i> recommend people watch video from the trial--specifically the officer testimonies. It&#x27;s absurd this lawsuit was even fit for trial.
  • throwa3562623 hours ago
    Serious question: how come the police have not paid for the damage they caused?
    • wl3 hours ago
      They chose not to do so. And the courts are no help, because generally speaking, you can&#x27;t sue the government unless there&#x27;s a specific law allowing you to do so (sovereign immunity). The police as individuals are generally immune from civil suits unless they violated some clearly established right (qualified immunity).
      • delfinom1 hour ago
        Eh? This falls under tort law for damages caused by the government.
        • wl1 hour ago
          The laws that provide a right of action against the government generally don’t cover damages caused by police in the lawful exercise of their duties.<p>So yeah, sovereign immunity.
    • Refreeze52242 hours ago
      Serious answer: cops are not accountable for their behavior, in the vast majority of cases.
    • Drakim3 hours ago
      If the damaged party tries to sue the police for the damage they caused, the police can get the case instantly dismissed underqualified immunity.
      • dec0dedab0de3 hours ago
        Qualified immunity just protects the police, and other government officials personally. If there is grounds for a lawsuit then he could still sue the government that employs the police department.<p>I think in general, if it is a legit warrant, it is very difficult to win a lawsuit for damage. Though with that video, and how high profile this has been, he might be able to win something. though IANAL, and I&#x27;m just going off my gut.
        • voxic113 hours ago
          The government has sovereign immunity which is why you usually have to sue the people involved rather than the government directly.
          • tzs1 hour ago
            The federal government and a most state governments in the US have laws that waive or partially waive sovereign immunity for tort claims against the government.<p>This raid was in Ohio. Here&#x27;s their immunity waiver: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;codes.ohio.gov&#x2F;ohio-revised-code&#x2F;section-2743.02" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;codes.ohio.gov&#x2F;ohio-revised-code&#x2F;section-2743.02</a><p>Here&#x27;s a page that links to a PDF with a table given cites and details for all 50 states: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mwl-law.com&#x2F;resources&#x2F;sovereign-immunity-tort-liability-50-states&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mwl-law.com&#x2F;resources&#x2F;sovereign-immunity-tort-li...</a>
            • voxic1128 minutes ago
              But these police don&#x27;t work for the state government. They worked for the Adams County government. The immunity waiver you linked explicitly only applies to the state government.<p>&gt; (A)(1) The state hereby waives its immunity from liability,<p>and then &quot;state&quot; is defined in <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;codes.ohio.gov&#x2F;ohio-revised-code&#x2F;section-2743.01" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;codes.ohio.gov&#x2F;ohio-revised-code&#x2F;section-2743.01</a><p>&gt; (A) &quot;State&quot; means the state of Ohio, including, but not limited to, the general assembly, the supreme court, the offices of all elected state officers, and all departments, boards, offices, commissions, agencies, institutions, and other instrumentalities of the state. &quot;State&quot; does not include political subdivisions.<p>&gt; (B) &quot;Political subdivisions&quot; means municipal corporations, townships, counties, school districts, and all other bodies corporate and politic responsible for governmental activities only in geographic areas smaller than that of the state to which the sovereign immunity of the state attaches.<p>Additionally even if the officers did work for the state, the immunity waiver still would not apply to the action of breaking down a door while executing a search warrant.<p>&gt; (3)(a) Except as provided in division (A)(3)(b) of this section, the state is immune from liability in any civil action or proceeding involving the performance or nonperformance of a public duty<p>and Ohio state law specifically authorizes breaking down doors to execute search warrants so this action would be one &quot;involving the performance or nonperformance of a public duty&quot;<p>&gt; (A) When making an arrest or executing an arrest warrant or summons in lieu of an arrest warrant, or when executing a search warrant, the peace officer, law enforcement officer, or other authorized individual making the arrest or executing the warrant or summons may break down an outer or inner door or window of a dwelling house or other building<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;codes.ohio.gov&#x2F;ohio-revised-code&#x2F;section-2935.12" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;codes.ohio.gov&#x2F;ohio-revised-code&#x2F;section-2935.12</a>
          • dec0dedab0de1 hour ago
            I didn&#x27;t know about sovereign immunity, but I just looked it up and there are exceptions to it. I think this one in particular could fall under a civil rights violation.<p>People routinely get money from excessive force used by police officers, and I believe that does extend to property too.<p>Qualified immunity means it is almost impossible to sue the officers directly, which is why so many people have a problem with it. Not only do taxpayers have to pay for the actions of a bad police officer, the officer themself isn&#x27;t held responsible for their actions.<p>On the other hand, you don&#x27;t want officers afraid to engage with a dangerous situation because they might bankrupt their family if they do the wrong thing in the heat of the moment. It is a sticky situation, and before smartphones and body cameras there was no real way to know if an officer crossed the line. As technology improves, I expect there to be more personal accountability, while also allowing the officers enough leeway to do their jobs without hesitation.
          • petcat2 hours ago
            Police departments are sued constantly. Most major police departments even have dedicated divisions set up just to assess and respond to lawsuits. Oftentimes by just knocking on the door and handing over a check.
          • ngetchell2 hours ago
            The government is sued all the time.
      • lightedman3 hours ago
        Stealing things out of a person&#x27;s fridge and eating it is not covered under qualified immunity.
        • RIMR3 hours ago
          Making up details of the incident doesn&#x27;t help either. They didn&#x27;t eat anything, a cop just did a double-take at the lemon pound cake, and Afroman wrote a song about how they wanted to eat it.
        • cobbzilla2 hours ago
          um it probably is. Wasn’t there a case a few years ago where a dispensary was raided and the cops stole marijuana, and got away with it due to QI.
    • caymanjim3 hours ago
      Qualified immunity.
      • iririririr3 hours ago
        which is double genius on afroman, because they forfeited qualified immunity to start this trial. now he can even sue further damages.<p>distrack as legal maneuver.
        • giraffe_lady2 hours ago
          He is a seasoned professional at this. He was respected in the diss track game in his day, he definitely understands the boundaries of defamation. And what has long been known in rap in newspapers: even if you&#x27;re right it&#x27;s not worth it to be on the stand defending defamation. &quot;It&#x27;s average size your honor.&quot;
      • jhancock3 hours ago
        I&#x27;m going to keep this one... underqualified immunity :)
    • quickthrowman2 hours ago
      They’re not liable to repair damage incurred from a raid or any other action. If the fire department has to chop your door open with an axe to gain entry to your home, they don’t pay for that either, you do.<p>If the police execute a search warrant on your home and kill your pet or a person, guess who is responsible for cleaning up the blood and mess? I’ll give you a hint, it’s not the police.
      • malfist2 hours ago
        There&#x27;s even a legal case where police took a backhoe to a building and tore one wall completely out instead of negotiating during a hostage situation. The homeowner was unable to get compensation for their destroyed home.
        • cucumber373284257 minutes ago
          His mistake was stopping when the lawsuit failed. Anyone can rent a backhoe. People forget that there is also a court of public opinion you can appeal to.
          • malfist57 minutes ago
            Are you suggesting a killdozer v2? I&#x27;m not sure what you&#x27;re implying.
  • djfobbz46 minutes ago
    Suing for invasion of privacy over a music video demonstrating how they invaded his privacy is wild!!
  • xeckr20 minutes ago
    Cops bust in searching for his drugs, then accuse him of invasion of privacy and humiliation...
  • pseudolus5 hours ago
    <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;sMpjA" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;sMpjA</a>
  • MaxVeritas77551 minutes ago
    good read. thanks for sharing
  • ChrisArchitect3 hours ago
    [dupe] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=47436950">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=47436950</a>
  • josefritzishere4 hours ago
    Related: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=47436950">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=47436950</a>
  • cardsstacked472 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • _alternator_1 hour ago
      Explain?
      • awithrow48 minutes ago
        You&#x27;re talking to a bot. There has been a wild influx of these accounts that just add filler comments like this.
  • josefritzishere4 hours ago
    This is the single funniest thing to happen in at least a decade.
    • anonymars2 hours ago
      You owe it to yourself to watch this testimony from the trial<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.instagram.com&#x2F;reel&#x2F;DV_7xmAEfq0&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.instagram.com&#x2F;reel&#x2F;DV_7xmAEfq0&#x2F;</a><p>Apologies, I wish I had a less cancerous link