8 comments

  • bfrog53 minutes ago
    Funnily it probably runs Windows better than the typical corporate spyware burdened x86 laptop.
    • nazgulsenpai46 minutes ago
      Took 6 minutes from power button to login prompt this morning. Probably even longer from login responsive desktop. So yes, probably!
      • amluto27 minutes ago
        I’ve helped someone with a rather clean iMac, circa 2019, still supported by Apple. Forget 6 minutes — you can spend a full hour from boot to giving up trying to get anything done.<p>I think that Apple has gotten so used to having fast storage in their machines that the newer OSes basically don’t work on spinning rust.
    • kotaKat2 minutes ago
      Geekbench 6 was around ~2600 single-core with the VM overhead for me. That&#x27;s still punching above single-core power in its class for Windows machines and it makes me giggle.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;browser.geekbench.com&#x2F;v6&#x2F;cpu&#x2F;17011372" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;browser.geekbench.com&#x2F;v6&#x2F;cpu&#x2F;17011372</a><p>This was the latest UTM in the App Store, so native Hypervisor.Framework access for arm64 Windows acceleration.
    • joe_mamba5 minutes ago
      Wouldn&#x27;t corporate spyware equally burden the NEO? Especially more give the 8GB of RAM vs 16+ on X64 laptops? Chrome, Teams, IDEs, websites etc are equally bloated on both platforms.
  • enopod_35 minutes ago
    Can it run Linux?
    • hu318 minutes ago
      Native, no. That would cannibalise Apple services which is a huge source of revenue for them.
      • dymk6 minutes ago
        Nobody is moving to Linux because there’s an iCloud replacement waiting for them over there…
    • jagged-chisel29 minutes ago
      In a VM, definitely. Just like other Macs.
      • stuxnet790 minutes ago
        If the A18 Pro has the same ISA as the M series chips then this may not be so straightforward. I am still hanging on to my 2020 MBP for dear life because it is the only Apple device I own that allows me to run Ubuntu and Windows 11 on a VirtualBox VM.
  • Tagbert1 hour ago
    Not surprising but good to hear. It seems that there really isn’t anything that runs on a new MackBook Air that you couldn’t run on a NEO. It might not be as fast for some things but it gets the job done.
    • kace9143 minutes ago
      Isn’t basically m1 air equivalent in specs?<p>I’ve got that one and I’m yet to feel limited.
      • xattt31 minutes ago
        It will have a longer support period than an M1 based on Apple’s history of device releases. This might also mean a longer support period for the 16-series phones than typical, similar to the 4S.
      • abnercoimbre19 minutes ago
        Always excited to hear about fellow M1 users. I’m not limited in the slightest. 5-6 years strong now?
        • bloudermilk1 minute ago
          I’ve been an M1 Air fan since I got mine in 2020 but recently things have become unusable. Playing 4K videos often drops frames, even at 30fps. And I can’t reliably run Notion’s transcription AI on Zoom calls, even though it’s not running locally. I’m going to do an OS reinstall soon to see if that helps, otherwise it will be time to upgrade…
  • donatj56 minutes ago
    Was that in doubt?
    • Aurornis2 minutes ago
      Virtualization requires specific hardware support to be performant. There are ways to do complete software emulation of a virtual machine but it would be so slow that nobody would want to use it.<p>This is them confirming that the CPU has enough virtualization support that they can virtualize rather than emulate the guest OS
    • xeromal53 minutes ago
      It uses the iphone processor (which I think still might be one of those Mchips?) so I think it was ok to be unsure.
      • jayd1631 minutes ago
        The odds of it not running at all were low but the performance is the real factor for whether it can _practically_ run a windows VM.
    • crazysim54 minutes ago
      Yeah. It&#x27;s the first production Mac using an A-chip and is a Mac that has had many things cut out for savings. The question is did Apple feature cut required functionality.
      • nsxwolf49 minutes ago
        The first Apple Silicon developer boxes were Mac Minis with A series chips so I wouldn’t have expected any issues.
        • bydo1 minute ago
          The A12Z in the developer transition kit didn&#x27;t support hardware virtualization.
        • crazysim7 minutes ago
          That&#x27;s why I chose to specifically mention production. The developer boxes were to get macOS native stuff going but virtualization was not a priority.
  • qaz_plm1 hour ago
    “Parallels Desktop runs on MacBook Neo in basic usability testing. The Parallels Engineering team has completed initial testing and confirmed that Parallels Desktop installs and virtual machines operate stably on MacBook Neo. Full validation and performance testing is ongoing, and additional compatibility statement will follow if required.”
  • j4557 minutes ago
    If Parallels can run it, UTM likely can run a fair bit too.
  • the_real_cher1 hour ago
    does that mean since this is the iPhone 16 cpu, by proxy the iPhone 16 can also run Windows in a virtual machine?
    • hard_times53 minutes ago
      Is this a trick question? Of course. However Apple imposed artificial limitations, like disabling JIT.
    • bombcar1 hour ago
      Maybe&#x2F;maybe not (we don&#x27;t know how identical the A18 chip is to what shipped in the iPhone) - but it does determine that the virtualization stuff that was added to the M1 (in the era of the A14) has now moved over to the A series, at least enough to support macOS.
  • joe_mamba1 hour ago
    Man, I do wonder what the realistic lifespan of that single NAND chip will be after it gets hammered by constant swapping of running tasks way beyond the capabilities of a 8GB RAM machine.<p>I have a PC with a 10+ year old 256GB SATA Samsung SSD that&#x27;s still in top shape, but that&#x27;s different because that drive has those 256GB split over several NAND chips inside, so wear is spread out and shuffled around by the controller to extend lifespan. But when your entire wearable storage is a single soldered chip, I&#x27;m not very optimistic about long term reliability.
    • havaloc1 hour ago
      There was quite a bit of discussion about that when the M1 first came out, but none of it really seemed to have happened six years later. The target audience isn&#x27;t in danger of wearing it out and the ones that will push the limits will grow tired of it and sell it in a year or two or move on to the Neo 2, which might have 12gb of ram due to the expected chip.<p>I still think it&#x27;s a great machine, but I think all these worries about NAND dying really haven&#x27;t come to fruition, and probably won&#x27;t. I have about a hundred plus of various SSD Macs in service and not one has failed in any circumstance aside from a couple of battery issues (never charged and sat in the box for 2 years, and never off the charger).
      • joe_mamba11 minutes ago
        <i>&gt;There was quite a bit of discussion about that when the M1 first came out, but none of it really seemed to have happened six years later. </i><p>1. How do you know nothing happened? Define nothing in this case. Do Mac users check and report their SSD wear anywhere?<p>2. Didn&#x27;t the OG 256gb M1 have 2 128MB NAND chips instead of one 256 meaning better wear resistance?
        • randomfrogs4 minutes ago
          If swapping was causing SSDs to fail on M1 Macs, we would never see the end of the hysterical articles about &quot;NANDgate&quot;. Since we haven&#x27;t seen any in all these years, it&#x27;s seems pretty certain it&#x27;s not happening.
          • joe_mamba0 minutes ago
            Hysteria would be if all had an issue like the keyboard gate, but this isn&#x27;t an issue, it&#x27;s a design limitation for certain uses cases which not everyone has.
    • gruez21 minutes ago
      &gt;but that&#x27;s different because that drive has those 256GB split over several NAND chips inside, so wear is spread out and shuffled around by the controller to extend lifespan. But when your entire wearable storage is a single soldered chip, I&#x27;m not very optimistic about long term reliability.<p>I thought wear leveling worked at the page&#x2F;block level, not the chip level? On an SSD, if there was a failure of an entire chip, you&#x27;re still screwed.
    • aruametello1 hour ago
      from what i seen in &quot;low end&quot; ssds like the &quot;120gb sata sandisk ones&quot; under windows in heavy near constant pagging loads is that they exceed by quite a lot their manufacturer lifetime TBW before actually actually started producing actual filesystem errors.<p>I can see this could be a weaker spot in the durability of this device, but certainly it still could take a few years of abuse before anything breaks.<p>an outdated study (2015) but inline with the &quot;low end ssds&quot; i mentioned.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techreport.com&#x2F;review&#x2F;the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techreport.com&#x2F;review&#x2F;the-ssd-endurance-experiment-t...</a>
    • stackskipton40 minutes ago
      Most flash has average wear out after 300k cycles. Let&#x27;s say 64GB is used for swap. That&#x27;s 19200 TB or 19.2 PETABYTES of Swap usage. Let&#x27;s say you swap 12GB a day, you will burn out that 64GB of Flash Storage in 4.38 years and my guess is that amount of swap usage is extremely high that user would probably replace laptop sooner out of performance frustration.
      • gruez17 minutes ago
        &gt;Most flash has average wear out after 300k cycles<p>No it doesn&#x27;t. Most 1TB drives are rated for around 600 TBW, so 600 cycles, nowhere near 300k. If you search for specs of NAND chips used in SSDs, you&#x27;ll find they&#x27;re rated for cycles on the order of hundreds to thousands, still nowhere near &quot;300k&quot;.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.techpowerup.com&#x2F;ssd-specs&#x2F;crucial-mx500-4-tb.d951" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.techpowerup.com&#x2F;ssd-specs&#x2F;crucial-mx500-4-tb.d95...</a>
      • bryanlarsen17 minutes ago
        12GB a day isn&#x27;t very much. If your working set is larger than the 8GB RAM, you&#x27;re swapping multiple times per second. It doesn&#x27;t take very many megabytes per swap to reach 12GB if you&#x27;re doing that multiple times per second.
      • seabass-salmon19 minutes ago
        that doesn&#x27;t maths