4 comments

  • nextos2 hours ago
    It&#x27;s interesting Lean is taking off in software engineering. Prior to the advent of LLMs &amp; agents, Lean had almost zero use in software and was mostly focused on mathematics, with Isabelle and Rocq leading the way here. In fact, I asked Kevin Buzzard and others in the Lean community, and they simply shrugged.<p>The exception was [1], a Lean-based text heavily inspired by <i>Concrete Semantics</i> [2], a cornerstone of Isabelle literature. The latter is, in essence, Winskel&#x27;s classic semantics book [3], a standard textbook in programming language theory, with all proofs mechanically checked.<p>More broadly, I&#x27;m wondering whether dependent types are the right abstraction or too powerful and heavy for humans to review and make sure specifications are aligned with intent. I&#x27;ve been working on automation for this for more than a year, and I&#x27;ve found refinement types sufficient and much easier to review.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;lean-forward&#x2F;logical_verification_2025" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;lean-forward&#x2F;logical_verification_2025</a><p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;concrete-semantics.org" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;concrete-semantics.org</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;direct.mit.edu&#x2F;books&#x2F;monograph&#x2F;4338&#x2F;The-Formal-Semantics-of-Programming-LanguagesAn" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;direct.mit.edu&#x2F;books&#x2F;monograph&#x2F;4338&#x2F;The-Formal-Seman...</a>
  • ngruhn4 days ago
    Is this impressive? They just ported a bunch of theorems&#x2F;proofs already written in Rocq into Lean. Also Logical Foundations is just a Rocq tutorial with the basics. An absolutely amazing tutorial and probably the best resource out there. But I&#x27;m not surprised AI can do that.
    • benlivengood4 days ago
      Impressive if for no other reason than there are various disparate formally verified projects (seL4, compcert, certikos) that could potentially be unified under a single proof system. Additionally it may be possible to quickly extend existing proofs (e.g. seL4&#x27;s proofs) to other architectures.
      • ngruhn4 days ago
        Not saying this is useless. But that article reads like they made some kind of breakthrough in automatic software verification. But is sounds like they rather ported a tutorial test suite from Go to Rust with AI and the tests are still passing.
    • corysama4 days ago
      I believe what they are bragging about is not the translated proofs, but the process of doing the translation.<p>&gt; produced by frontier AI with ~2 person-days of human effort versus an estimated ~2.75 person-years manually (a 350x speed-up). We achieve this through task-level specification generators...
  • akkad334 days ago
    This website is asking me for permissions on my phone. Why?
    • Cyphase1 hour ago
      I&#x27;m not seeing that. Which permissions?
      • banajama35 minutes ago
        Not op, but it asked me to &quot;use other apps and services in this device&quot; android, crime
  • Garlef57 minutes ago
    Fullstack lean when?