6 comments

  • ziml771 hour ago
    So DB48X provides a covered application store?<p>(e) (1) “Covered application store” means a publicly available internet website, software application, online service, or platform that distributes and facilitates the download of applications from third-party developers to users of a computer, a mobile device, or any other general purpose computing that can access a covered application store or can download an application.<p>Also, where does anything in the CA bill mandate age verification? It&#x27;s saying the OS needs to prompt for age bracket info and allow the third party apps to query that. That is far different from verification.
    • iamnothere1 hour ago
      &gt; Also, where does anything in the CA bill mandate age verification? It&#x27;s saying the OS needs to prompt for age bracket info and allow the third party apps to query that. That is far different from verification.<p>Regardless of the technical details of the law(s), the devs are sensibly refusing to prompt for age on a fricking <i>calculator</i>.<p>Hopefully Linux distros get on board with this and announce non-CA&#x2F;CO compliance as policy.
      • drnick11 hour ago
        Ultimately, it does not matter. This legal notice is just theater, as anyone from CA or CO can still download, build and use the program. Linux distributions will just do the same.
        • parasense14 minutes ago
          Certainly. However, The developer seems to want to avoid the $2,500 per violation by any child who accesses the calculator, and might see a dick pic... because that calculator firmware does indeed allow for image viewing, and application development. It&#x27;s more powerful than your PC back in the late 1990s.
        • goda9054 minutes ago
          You might say the bills themselves are theater. Respond to theater with theater.
      • tliltocatl1 hour ago
        For Linux it will be way more problematic because:<p>- A lot of of corporate contributions comes from SV.<p>- Linux Foundation is incorporated in CA.<p>- Linus himself is CA&#x27;s resident AFAIR.<p>So there is zero chance of claiming no jurisdiction. The only hope is whoever is enforcing this batshit wouldn&#x27;t go after what is essentially not an OS for the purpose of the bill, but rather an internal component (it would be like going after a vendor of bolts and nuts for noncompliance of a toaster).
        • helterskelter23 minutes ago
          I believe Linus lives in Oregon.
        • mghackerlady58 minutes ago
          Unfortunately, most people think he made everything since he gets all the credit for the work GNU did
          • tliltocatl28 minutes ago
            Stop spreading disinformation. Linus and others did most of the work in the kernel. GNU project on the kernel side was architecture astronaut vaporware aka &quot;Hurd&quot;. They were much more successful in userland (coreutils, gcc and the toolchain, gdb, Emacs, to name a few).
            • mghackerlady23 minutes ago
              I meant the userland specifically. By calling what is fundamentally a GNU system running on a different kernel just &quot;linux&quot; it makes people think linux and his crew made all of the userland, in part because saying a college student made &quot;an entire operating system&quot; is far more profitable for news agencies than acknowledging his important but overall relatively small role in what they call &quot;linux&quot;
              • tliltocatl9 minutes ago
                Because the kernel is the irreplaceable piece. None of what GNU did is: there are numerous implementations of coreutils and shells and at least one non-GNU production-quality compiler toolchain (clang-llvm), a few alternative libcs. And many distribution do actively use the non-GNU parts. But none of this is useful without the kernel <i>that is compatible with computers people have</i>. And the only usable kernel we have is Linux (while BSDs are out there too, they take a much different tightly-integrated approach to userspace).
  • ronsor13 minutes ago
    I think the winning move is just to ignore the legislation, and drag the government into an EFF or ACLU-funded First Amendment lawsuit if they try to enforce anything.
    • dmitrygr6 minutes ago
      the winning move is to publicly post every bit of data that anyone has or ever had about the politicians who wrote this law, publicly, and see how fast they change their mind on privacy. I suggest starting with SMSs and photos in &quot;private&quot; folders.
  • tliltocatl1 hour ago
    IANAL, but the whole thing feels quite problematic. Should we interpret the prohibition as a licensing condition &quot;a resident using our IP is violating the contract&quot; or as an informative note &quot;we are not compliant and we are not ever going to be compliant so a resident using the IP is violating local laws&quot;? I&#x27;d expect the intent to be the latter, but would it hold in front of a judge? If the notice is a licensing condition, the whole thing is problematic as hell:<p>- Does such prohibition has any legal force at all? Does it do anything to prevent responsibility according to the bill? Wouldn&#x27;t just saying &quot;CA&#x2F;CO have zero jurisdiction over us, get screwed&quot; be a saner choice (of course it would be better if the project wouldn&#x27;t host on M$&#x27;s servers).<p>- The main project license is GPLv3. GPLv3 clearly has no provisions to introduce arbitrary prohibitions into the license without losing compatibility. But they still keep GPLv3 LICENSE.txt, which is problematic in itself - if LICENSE.txt says one thing and LEGAL-NOTICE.txt another, the conclusion might be that no license applies so no one may use the software at all!<p>- If they are reusing any GPL software that they don&#x27;t hold copyright on, they might be or might not be in violation (would need a real lawyer to say if that&#x27;s the case or not).<p>And on the actual matter of things, it&#x27;s really sad to see California to be on the front line of this crap (this <i>screams</i> ageism). And, dear &quot;adults&quot;, screw your parental authority so much. Whatever skills I&#x27;ve gained before the university I&#x27;ve done against an explicit parental prohibition. This is what I live off now. Screw you all.
    • cosmic_cheese33 minutes ago
      &gt; And on the actual matter of things, it&#x27;s really sad to see California to be on the front line of this crap (this screams ageism). And, dear &quot;adults&quot;, screw your parental authority so much. Whatever skills I&#x27;ve gained before the university I&#x27;ve done against an explicit parental prohibition. This is what I live off now. Screw you all.<p>It&#x27;s yet another surface that totalitarian parental control has crept into, and it&#x27;s a serious problem. Young people kept strictly within the iron grip of their guardians generally aren&#x27;t the ones who become happy actualized all-star adults.<p>Obviously there should be some limits on what teenagers and children can access, it shouldn&#x27;t be entirely free reign, but robbing them of space to bend the rules severely limits their potential for growth and incurs a strong risk of extinguishing their spark.
      • mcmcmc27 minutes ago
        &gt; Obviously there should be some limits on what teenagers and children can access<p>Is it? The <i>only</i> people who should be deciding those limits are parents. If they fail to set and enforce those limits then any negative outcomes for the child are due to their own negligence, and can be adjudicated as child abuse per those laws.
        • cosmic_cheese11 minutes ago
          I agree fully. Limits should be on the shoulders of parents, not the government or any other institution.
  • lacoolj1 hour ago
    I don&#x27;t see a definition for &quot;operating system&quot; in this legislation (California).<p>&quot;Operating system provider&quot; is defined, but that&#x27;s kinda useless unless &quot;operating system&quot; is defined first.
    • netsharc1 hour ago
      It seems there&#x27;s also a definition error:<p>&gt; 1798.500. For the purposes of this title:<p>&gt; (i) “User” means a child that is the primary user of the device.<p>Child is defined:<p>&gt; (d) “Child” means a natural person who is under 18 years of age.<p>But that means this is impossible:<p>&gt; (b) (4) Whether the user is at least 18 years of age.
  • lokar1 hour ago
    Does it run applications? The point of the law is to collect (and device setup) the age of the (I guess primary?) user, and communicate that (as a range?) to any applications it runs.<p>So, if you don&#x27;t run applications, does this matter? Also, enforcement is by the CA attorney general, so random people can&#x27;t go after you.
    • wrs1 hour ago
      Well, it’s a programmable calculator, so…how does the law define “applications”?
      • meatmanek54 minutes ago
        (c) “Application” means a software application that may be run or directed by a user on a computer, a mobile device, or any other general purpose computing device that can access a covered application store or download an application.
  • drnick11 hour ago
    Clickbait title, the legal notice explicitly states that an open source project cannot and will not implement age verification.
    • hlieberman1 hour ago
      There is no carve out in the law for open source. I don’t think it matters for this calculator’s firmware, because there’s no covered App Store, but it certainly would for most Linux distributions.
      • drnick11 hour ago
        The law is irrelevant when it comes to open source. There is no one to turn to and bully for compliance. A government could presumably request that GitHub delete the repo, but the software will then simply move somewhere else, in a jurisdiction where these laws don&#x27;t apply, or be distributed peer-to-peer. These attempts at curbing the freedom to write and distribute software are pathetic and will fail.
        • mhurron1 hour ago
          &gt; simply move somewhere else, in a jurisdiction where these laws don&#x27;t apply, or be distributed peer-to-peer<p>Each of these options lead software to become less and less discoverable leading to the fact that most people will never use anything that isn&#x27;t complying with these laws. So the end result still hits the desired effect.
        • tliltocatl17 minutes ago
          &gt; There is no one to turn to and bully for compliance &gt; These attempts at curbing the freedom to write and distribute software are pathetic and will fail.<p>You sweet summer child.