Georgian wine culture dates back, uninterrupted, approximately 8k years

(wsetglobal.com)

48 points by Anon844 days ago

5 comments

riffraff2 hours ago
Georgian cuisine and drinking is little known in the west but it's really, really good.It's a pity the country has been democratically backsliding for a while, which has limited their hopes of tighter integration with the EU.
- gregman11 hour ago
 As long as France is in EU no other country on earth can import good wine. Cheap - probably, heavily controlled and in many cases partially owned by French or in some rare cases other European companies (like in Chilean or Argentinian cases). This market is rather hardcore and kinda monopolized in EU. Go ask anyone who knows wine market or works at a Georgian (or any ex-Soviet restaurant). Georgian wine enjoyed this kind of monopoly in USSR so no surprise here. During that time wine from Moldova wine was an affordable great quality underdog.
- gnull1 hour ago
 I doubt they will benefit from that integration much. But I'm pretty sure the way there will hurt. Georgia's economy is tied to Russia at the moment, and as you said Westerners are not exactly lining up to travel to Georgia and order its wine (Russians are).The narrative "people want EU (aka freedom and democracy), but bad dictators won't let them" is a populist one. And EU has been using it like carrot and stick to steer Georgia away from Russia, disregarding the cost of it for Georgia. That time when EU declared Georgian elections illegitimate (with no actual basis provided) to me was a violation of Georgia's sovereignty.Elections in Georgia are very competitive. I've heard that government was slowly putting pressure on media, but I don't remember anything major. Georgia could be the most democratic of ex-USSR except Baltics today.
 - victorbjorklund20 minutes ago
 Let me guess, you think that Ukrainians also really want to be part of Russia and that they are just being manipulated by Westerners and that true Ukrainians wanna be part of Russian Empire? And that Russians are just liberating them.
 - riffraff44 minutes ago
 It's not the EU, OSCE reports the same.> Elections in Georgia are very competitive. I've heard that government was slowly putting pressure on media, but I don't remember anything major.The OCSE report on the 2024 election was that they were significantly biased[0]> Reports of pressure on voters, particularly on public sector employees, remained widespread in the campaign. This, coupled with extensive tracking of voters on election day, raised concerns about the ability of some voters to cast their vote without fear of retribution. The legal framework provides an adequate basis for democratic elections, but recent frequent amendments marked a step backwards, raising concerns over its potential use for political gain. Preparations for the elections were well-administered, including extensive voter education on the use of new voting technologies. A significant imbalance in financial resources and advantage of incumbency contributed to an already uneven playing field. The polarized media environment and instrumentalization of private outlets for political propaganda affected impartial news coverage, hindering voters’ ability to make an informed choice. Effectiveness of campaign finance oversight was undermined by limited enforcement, and concerns over the impartiality and political instrumentalization of the oversight body.And in 2025, OSCE again complained about the democratic limitations to protest[1]> “Peaceful protesters in Georgia continue to be detained, sentenced, and fined for exercising their rights. The authorities have an obligation to implement their OSCE human rights commitments and international obligations, including respect for the right to peaceful assembly”, said Maria Telalian, ODIHR Director. “I would like to urge once again the Georgian authorities to ensure that civil society and human rights defenders are not targeted and that their voices are heard, as their work is crucial in fostering a vibrant democratic society.”We can agree this is still a western-oriented view, but I think it's pretty undisputable that Georgia in 2026 is a less open society than Georgia in 2016.[0] <a href="https://www.osce.org/sites/default/files/f/documents/1/6/584029.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://www.osce.org/sites/default/files/f/documents/1/6/584...</a>[1] <a href="https://odihr.osce.org/odihr/598675" rel="nofollow">https://odihr.osce.org/odihr/598675</a>
 - Tade01 hour ago
 > The narrative "people want EU (aka freedom and democracy), but bad dictators won't let them" is a populist one.Former eastern block members that are currently in the EU beg to differ.It's no accident that there's such a developmental gap between those of the former communist states which turned to the west vs those who remained in Russia's sphere of influence.You can't meaningfully prosper with Russia.
 - CjHuber37 minutes ago
 It's terrible that people think like that, especially in Georgia where they are still not tied to the debt fueled pyramid scheme that is the EU.They still think of Europe as how it was 20 years+ ago, they always only look at the surface and never if the whole concept really works out long term.
 - victorbjorklund19 minutes ago
 Russia is a tiny tiny economy built on corruption. Their whole economy is about selling energy. and right now their economy is failing. They're exporting less and less and less. They even have to import fuel because they can't produce enough for their own economy.
 - lukan19 minutes ago
 "They still think of Europe as how it was 20 years+ ago, they always only look at the surface and never if the whole concept really works out long term."Poland today seems in a way better spot than in was 20 years ago, so it seems it worked out for them. Likewise all the other eastern EU members where I travelled around. As soon as I left EU territory, things looked way worse.
 - misja11112 minutes ago
 And the alternative is ... Russia? A corrupt dictatorship whose economy is kept alive with government war spending?
 - jayquery47 minutes ago
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 - simion3143 minutes ago
 Oh, is the CIA at it again? brainwashing people to hate the good old Ruzzian empire and the tzar? If only those Georgians could travel to Ruzzia and Europe and make their own minds if they want to be like Ukraine and Belarus that sucked on Putin or they want to be like Poland or Romania ... /sarcasmNo idea dude why all this KGB attempts to pretend that Ruzzia is some kind of big nice brother to Georgia after they fucking invaded them and grabbed their lands , the big brother is a bit violent if he drinks too much and unfortunately he is always drunk on power and dreams of making the empire great again ?
- 3RTB2971 hour ago
 Seconding all of this. The food is truly fantastic, and the Georgian people are awesome, but the way they've let Putin slide in to just the right places is holding back the country.I've never been so invested in a puppet show as the puppet theater in Tblisi.
- poisonarena1 hour ago
 I love Sakartvelo, but its ottoman/turkish food meets slavic food.. I can't think of a single dish (khachapuri/khinkali/etc).. that is from Georgia, that also doesnt exist in its neighboring countries in the middle east under a different name, russia/ukraine, and the balkans. Dont tell them that though, they don't like it! Its a total crossroads of a country
 - mmsc21 minutes ago
 Yes, that's why it's great. They have the best of everything around and have imo perfected it. It's difficult to think of certain foods that are actually unique to any "country", tbh.
 - pinkmuffinere38 minutes ago
 To be fair, this is true of all the Middle East. Döner, baklava kunefe, coffee, börek, etc. But the combination of common elements is still delicious, and every region has their own unique opinions about what makes a dish “correct”. I would easily believe the balkans (or any costly neighboring countries) are the same.
 - poisonarena19 minutes ago
 agreed, food doesn't belong to anyone
larodi14 minutes ago
Wine is produced in monasteries, beer also. So => is ingrained in Christian culture. The same way marijuana is part of the Hindu culture. Am I right?
olaulailadila56 minutes ago
As an Armenian, I think this is bullshit, maybe.
dyauspitr2 hours ago
Crazy to think that’s roughly around when white people started becoming… white.It was basically all dark skinned people on the planet before then.
- legerdemain2 hours ago
 There's a reason they call them Caucasian.
 - gnull1 hour ago
 No, there isn't. Caucasus is a place that exists now, and people who live there now have more basis to be called that. Some of them are White, some aren't. There's many ethnicities there, but they have a ton of cultural things on common. In the Russian-speaking parts of the world "Caucasian" refers to those cultural features, just like you may use the words "Asian" or "European".You can only use Caucasian as white if you're completely uneducated about geography and unaware of life outside of US.
 - shermantanktop1 hour ago
 In Florida it wouldn’t be confusing to refer to someone from Hawaii as “Hawaiian,” but in Hawaii it means something much more specific about ancestry, and it’s considered rude and even offensive to misuse it.In NYC they pronounce Oregon as “Ore-gone,” even though Oregonians pronounce it “Ore-gun.” In Portland, mispronunciation marks you as an ignorant outsider.Every place has idiosyncratic misuses of terms that come from somewhere else. Of course you are correct about “Caucasian,” but wherever you are from, I’m sure you misuse some other term.Labeling it as uneducated and unaware is a form of snobbery that you’re unlikely to be entitled to. None of us are.
 - gnull23 minutes ago
 Fair point, I agree I made it too arrogant.We all have things we misuse, but I think those things may characterize us sometimes. For example, in Russian we often misuse the word Hindu to mean Indian. It may mean that the person is uneducated and maybe even unaware of the difference. A couple of my friends who've been to India or are nerds about other cultures, don't misuse the word, some even go around ranting about it.I personally feel that the way Americans use "Caucasian" is a more blatant misuse than others, and maybe that's what made me react that way. Like what is exact idea one has to miss and be unaware of to use "Caucasian" for "white"? What adds to it is that, if I understand correctly, using "Caucasian" instead of "white" in English makes you sound more official and important. I guess I can see that it's being used due to legal tradition and that's hard to change.
 - orthoxerox1 hour ago
 Or if you're a 19th century German phrenologist.
 - adrian_b55 minutes ago
 No, Caucasian is a bogus term whose origin is in a misinterpretation of the Bible.In the Genesis, humans were partitioned in descendants of Japheth, Ham and Shem, hence terms like Hamites and Semites.However the meaning of this partition was completely other than its naive interpretation that was common during Medieval times and until recently.This partition had absolutely nothing to do with race or with the languages spoken by people, which were pretty much irrelevant in the Antiquity. The partition was based purely on political dependence.The descendants of Ham were the people politically dependent on Egypt and the descendants of Shem were the people dependent on Assyro-Babylonia.An example of people closely related and who spoke a very similar language, but who were divided based on political allegiance is that the Phoenicians were counted as descendants of Ham, because they belonged to Egypt, while Hebrews were counted as descendants of Shem, because they belonged to Assyro-Babylonia.Japheth refers to Caucasus and the descendants of Japheth were the people from Anatolia, where Indo-European kingdoms, like that of the Hittites, were dominant.During Medieval times, this grouping of people from the Bible was completely misunderstood and it was believed that it refers to race, so it was believed that "descendants of Ham" refers to Africans and "descendants of Japheth", i.e. Caucasians, refers to "white" Europeans, hence the stupid name used in America of "Caucasian".
 - victorbjorklund17 minutes ago
 You got it the opposite way. basically some pseudoscientist thought that the schools of people from the Caucasus had the most beautiful skulls when they were dead. and since he was white he thought that this must be where all white people are coming from. So he claimed that white people are Caucasian. Even if this is of course not true that most Anglo-Saxon people are coming from the Caucasian mountains.
- jayquery44 minutes ago
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petesergeant2 hours ago
They're very proud of it too, but having spent time in Tbilisi (strong recommend!), there's a very simple reason you can buy French and Australian wine at your local shop, but nobody has bothered to make sure there's a good selection of Georgian wine there.
- darthoctopus1 hour ago
 what _is_ that reason, out of curiosity?
 - petesergeant3 minutes ago
 It doesn't match the tastes of non-Georgian consumers, beyond being a (usually short-lived) curiosity
- dcrazy2 hours ago
 Germany and especially Austria produce some rather poor reds but have carved out a niche for Riesling and Gewürtztraminer. Is there a similar niche for Georgian wine?
 - messe47 minutes ago
 > Germany and especially Austria produce some rather poor reds but have carved out a niche for Riesling and Gewürtztraminer.You're missing out on some rather nice German reds. You can definitely find some excellent Spätburgunders out there.
 - 3RTB2971 hour ago
 I'm not who you asked, but the niche for Georgian wine is orange wine, which is white wine left to sit on the grape skins for a couple days, so it pulls more tannins. It's not exclusive to them alone, but the more distinct niche is orange wine aged in clay pots that gives it a distinct earthiness. If you appreciate understanding food anthropology, this is more similar to how wine was produced in ancient times, as opposed to a cabernet or modern varieties aged in oak or stainless steel.You can usually find maybe one variety of orange wine in the US at larger wine stores with a substantial international selection.
 - Ostrogoth29 minutes ago
 You can also find orange (or skin contact) wine in the US at smaller boutique natural wine shops, which are becoming more common. Orange wines are cultivated in Sonoma and other wine regions in the US as well.
 - Khaine1 hour ago
 Georgia makes wine in its traditional style or 'european' style. Traditional style is where the crushed grapes including branches is stored in clay pots (called Qvevri) for fermentation and aging. This means Georgian wines often have a different colour and can be cloudy.European is the style of how most wine is made in EuropeThe most famous style is Saperavi which is a Red wine.
 - te_chris48 minutes ago
 “Rather poor reds”. Um what? Germany and Austria produce a lot of excellent wine, red and white.Austrian reds are some of my favourites.In London, Georgian orange wines are very popular and that seems to be what most people who are cursorily into wine would know them for here.