12 comments

  • samsolomon5 hours ago
    Man, I could see the next Total Annihilation &#x2F; Supreme Commander-like game where rough orders&#x2F;instructions are given to commanders and they carry out those commands.<p>The scale of those games was already nuts, but that would 10x things.
    • Iv4 hours ago
      BAR (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.beyondallreason.info&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.beyondallreason.info&#x2F;</a>) is an open source TA clone that proposes massive scale and that is totally open. After the recent disappointment over a series of failures to bring a new big RTS game in the last 2 years, the RTS community talks a lot about this one.<p>The mechanics are old school, as with basically all RTS, but the openness allows for far more experiments than one would assume in a proprietary game.
    • jjmarr1 hour ago
      The revealed preference of players is for terrible AI so games are easier. That&#x27;s why AI has been going downhill.<p>Payday 2 is my favourite example since they&#x27;ve had a bug since Day 1 that lobotomizes the AI subsystem.<p>Specifically, there&#x27;s a global cap of 1 action for all enemies per game tick, so when there&#x27;s too many enemies the reaction time is 5 seconds.<p>The mod Full Speed Swarm fixes this bug and the game is unplayable without collaboration and a lot of skill.<p>It&#x27;s also unnoticeable until you die or if you do a ton of research on the AI. I used to host pubs with the mod to troll other players who suddenly found the game impossible to play at lower difficulties.<p>I think it&#x27;s possible we get an AI driven RTS but the demand is too small right now unless its a recruitment vehicle for the military.
    • neuronexmachina2 hours ago
      I&#x27;m reminded of an obscure Gamecube game called Odama (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Odama" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Odama</a>) which was kind of a bizarre blend between pinball + RTS, where you commanded feudal Japanese troops using the Gamecube Microphone. Of course, this was 2006, so it only accepted a short list of vocal commands like &quot;Company halt!&quot; and &quot;Charge!&quot;
  • egeozcan2 hours ago
    I&#x27;ve been developing an rts using coding agents <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;egeozcan.github.io&#x2F;unnamed_rts&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;egeozcan.github.io&#x2F;unnamed_rts&#x2F;</a> - lots of borrowed ideas from red alert.<p>it&#x27;s super buggy and yet doesn&#x27;t work on mobile but it&#x27;s been my childhood dream to make an rts and I have something I can have fun adding different dynamics.<p>it&#x27;s much more fun to watch the agent struggle developing an AI instead of play the game itself (tried that at the beginning too).
  • whs4 hours ago
    I wish there&#x27;s a RuneScape server for bots. A game where it is both fun to play manually, and automated. Quests, for example, is a one-off thing where it could be fun for the player and not really useful to automate since it is a one-off task (unless you&#x27;re running bot farm).<p>I don&#x27;t think the main game would encourage that - the more obscure the protocol, the less bot in the actual game (even though I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s hard to find protocol documentation or just plug into an official client). OpenRSC, a revival of RuneScape Classic do have botting worlds, but personally RSC is not &quot;fun&quot; for me.<p>There are programmer games like Screeps (which the new Arena version just launched at the end of last year), but those game usually do not allow manual play or only indirect play. I tried Screeps, but I&#x27;m not good at strategy games, so once I get the runtime working I lose interest and none of my friend would want to help me strategize in game that they do not understand.
    • alexpotato3 hours ago
      This is basically Factorio.<p>You start out very manual and then automate more and more parts of the game.<p>There is even a &quot;signal network&quot; function that can be used to program.<p>You can continue to do things in manual ways even later in the game.<p>EDIT: changed to &quot;manual ways&quot;
    • Folcon4 hours ago
      Genuine question to you as someone who&#x27;s been building in this space, what would you want &#x2F; need to play a game as a programmer?<p>An API? An SDK? An in-game editor? Tutorials? Or is this more a &quot;I want a factorio-like&quot;?<p>I&#x27;ve been building economic engines and simulations for the last few years now and over the last 3 months in my off time I&#x27;ve been getting increasingly in the weeds about how to design a game that fits this<p>I&#x27;ve specifically been exploring using a voxel game as a base (think minecraft-like) however because I&#x27;m deeply interested in minion management &#x2F; design I&#x27;ve been looking at how to create a programming &#x2F; play experience that actually is fun and makes sense<p>What I&#x27;m trying to understand is what is the fun overlap between these<p>I have some opinions &#x2F; ideas of my own and what I&#x27;ve been trying to do, however I&#x27;d be really interested in what other people are looking for to see where the overlap is and whether it fits the shape of what I&#x27;m building and whether I want to really commit the time to prototyping some things to see if there is interest to support this type of playstyle<p>Just to be super clear, what I&#x27;ve built so far specifically is targeting multiplayer
      • squeaky-clean6 minutes ago
        Not OP but for me the appeal would be in botting a game that&#x27;s made for humans, and not a game made specifically made for botting. Let me use autohotkey, or modify the client, or do any of the things real botters do, don&#x27;t worry about providing an API. Just let me register a character as a bot and restrict it to a separate server that can&#x27;t interact with the main game servers&#x2F;economy, and disable anti-botting protection. Maybe make it require something like CURLing an endpoint so that regular users can&#x27;t accidentally create a character on the bot world.<p>But this would probably never fly because it would become a training ground for people who make malicious bots.
      • whs31 minutes ago
        Other people have described Factorio-style game, or idle RPGs. I think for a Factorio-style game, Desynced might be a better programming game. I haven&#x27;t play it for quite some time, but last I remember it has a visual editor and automation bots in early tech tree. In Factorio, if you craft a green circuit board it automatically craft all the precursors from iron&#x2F;copper plates in your inventory. In Desynced you have to do all that manually, which force you to use the automation system right up front. However, it&#x27;s not fun repeating code blocks to build different simple things, and it&#x27;s not fun that you have to solve both gaming problems (eg. I need to build my base, what should I build next) and programming problems (eg. write flood fill bot to explore for resources) at the same time.<p>The problem with these kinds of game is at some point you&#x27;ll run into tech debts - your factory layout is not optimal, and the game optimize your starting zone so migrating out means you may lose simple access to starting resources. I tried optimizing for large factory up front, but it&#x27;s like a startup with a monolith running on a Kubernetes.<p>Satisfactory solved this by having a fixed map and 3D, but it comes with its own challenges. Good Company partially solved this by replacing belts with humans who can walk anywhere you want, and introduce belt at a late game stage (which I quit around that stage - the game already gets repetitive by that point).<p>Anyway, what I was describing was not those kind of automation games. RuneScape is an RPG game with over 20+ skills. What make it interesting is that RuneScape bot engines (which exists, but is illegal) do provide all the high level primitives for you in Java. You could provide a world coordinate and a walking script will do all the walk for you even if it is the other side of the world map. It should felt like making games in Scratch instead of reinventing serialization in Screeps.<p>Other games with scripting also often don&#x27;t allow human-in-the-loop. If a bot in an automation game get stuck because you forgot to program how to restock teleports, you have to stop it and reprogram. RuneScape bots don&#x27;t block inputs - if you forgot to make the bot handle stamina exhaustion just click the run button yourself without stopping the script.<p>RuneScape also comes with strategizing for the human, while the solution space is quite fixed and well discussed by the community if you don&#x27;t want to find out yourselves. If your Slayer task is green dragons, do you go to a spot that is far from a bank and lose efficiency or give up the loot, or do you go to PvP zone and use cannon (multi target auto turret)? If I write a bot, I probably will write a Wildy Green Dragon script instead of a generic fight-anything script so that it will know to bring cannon and place it at the optimal spot to target all spawns at once. Same goes for many other skills - if I train crafting or construction do I sink millions and go for the highest XP rate or do I go very slowly and get a slight profit out of it.<p>I&#x27;d also add that having a community marketplace would also helps. RuneScape have underground marketplace for bots, with free scripts that probably get you banned, and paid &quot;private&quot; scripts that supposedly undetected. I also have played Mars First Logistics where you build a vehicle Lego-style, then deliver weird cargo like a block of ice or a crate of oranges without a lid. The game have Steam Workshop support where you can just skip building your own vehicle and try to drive someone else&#x27;s vehicle to destination. I got an ice block pusher, which I need to figure out how to put the ice in (just surround the block, close gate so the block cannot escape), then the map has hills that make your ice fall over the bottom anyway.
      • anonymous9082134 hours ago
        There is some prior art of this nature, such as screeps, that you might find useful as reference material (if you aren&#x27;t already aware of it).
        • Folcon4 hours ago
          I am thank you, however the reason I&#x27;m engaging here is that what&#x27;s being asked for from what I can see is a very different experience to screeps, for example screeps is top down much more programmer designed and has specific affordances and design to create the automated experience via being a developer<p>The reason I&#x27;m comparing it to factorio is because that game though still top down is designed specifically with a player in mind automating their labor and then slowly taking on a complex logistics game as they go and doing so fully in the game, the play is in laying out structures within the game<p>Satisfactory for example has different choices that lead to different gameplay as it&#x27;s first person 3d, the play is in setting up and managing logistical structures and hitting production targets<p>That is interesting, however for my tastes both of these are a little too static an experience for what I want to build<p>I&#x27;m still working out the details of what I&#x27;m putting together, but I have a decent high level idea of what my goals are =)<p>What I want to know is, if people play this kind of game, what are they looking for &#x2F; wanting?<p>What&#x27;s a good &quot;MVP&quot; or minimal gameloop that would feel satisfying?<p>I want to quickly work out if I can serve either the gameplay desire or the gameplay fantasy or if it is just too hard to provide a fun experience for this kind of play in which case I should table this and focus on what I&#x27;m currently doing<p>However I&#x27;m still engaging with this because I would like to create a fun playspace here I just don&#x27;t know what other programmers would want especially in the context of what the GP was asking, which is a mix of manual intervention and programming &#x2F; automation
          • anonymous9082134 hours ago
            I can&#x27;t speak for all programmers, but as a game developer myself, my take is: your very job as a game developer, above all, is to find the fun. This is especially prudent if you&#x27;re making a game for other programmers. If I already had a solid idea in my head for what would be an amazingly fun programming-oriented game, I would... program it myself. I don&#x27;t have such a concept in mind. I believe finding those concepts is something you have to find out by tinkering with ideas, building prototypes, working out the implementation details and seeing what you yourself enjoy.
            • Folcon4 hours ago
              I don&#x27;t disagree with any of that =)<p>It&#x27;s what I&#x27;ve been doing, I&#x27;m asking what I&#x27;m asking to see if it surfaces anything that I&#x27;ve been missing &#x2F; not thinking about and trying to work out what people would see as table stakes<p>In the same way that I know that playtesting reveals flaws and gaps in my design and thinking, this is a earlier version of that process that has in my experience helped me when building non-game related things<p>It may very much be the case that this is not the kind of thing that I should do when focused on building a game, but I don&#x27;t think it hurts to ask
    • giancarlostoro2 hours ago
      Erenshor is sort of what you want, its fully offline, reminds me of Runescape. All the other players are NPCs technically.<p>I have thought of the same btw. There&#x27;s also an actual Idler MMO on Steam I think is Free to Play called Idleon or something like that, its more side scroller though. You can play it and progress, or you can idle and let your character level as well.
    • graypegg3 hours ago
      Honestly, as someone that&#x27;s been picking up OSRS again (and is actually now thinking about RS3 given all of the recent progress jagex is making on removing MTX in it!), I&#x27;d be good with that. I still like to play it myself without botting, so anything to move the bots somewhere else I think would be neat. PvP folk lose some easy kills but that&#x27;s about it for impact on regular players honestly.<p>The problem is, the reason the bots exist now is to sell the account or farm gp. The only way this would work would be if that bot only world was gated off from the rest of the economy like special gamemode&#x2F;league worlds, naturally destroying any reason most bot makers make bots. Your love of automating for sport puts you in the minority of botters sadly haha<p>Officially blessed OSRS private servers are on the roadmap IIRC... maybe there&#x27;s a future for a bot-olympics in one of those?
      • nickzelei2 hours ago
        The official private servers were paused recently. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;oldschool.runescape.wiki&#x2F;w&#x2F;Project_Zanaris" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;oldschool.runescape.wiki&#x2F;w&#x2F;Project_Zanaris</a>
  • bob10295 hours ago
    I think this is a really cool idea.<p>What would stop us from making it multiplayer and having two or more human players compete over common resources &amp; goals?
    • Folcon4 hours ago
      To be honest as far as I can see the answer to that is nothing<p>I&#x27;ve been getting increasingly interested in trying to work out what this would look like
      • bob10293 hours ago
        Perhaps it&#x27;s not a competitive game. Maybe the better approach is to have all players cooperate against the environment.
      • MattRix4 hours ago
        I don’t know if this is a joke but isn’t the answer just… a regular RTS game?
        • Finbel3 hours ago
          One fun thing would be to raise the abstraction level of the game.<p>How would it feel to only interact with your base&#x2F;economy&#x2F;army via prompting and face someone doing the same.<p>Would words per minute replace APM, what would the meta look like etc. Would you be able to adjust the system prompt for your &quot;army&quot; to suit your play style?
          • dugidugout2 hours ago
            I get the feeling you are approaching Hesse&#x27;s Glass Bead Game.
          • MattRix1 hour ago
            I’m sure it would be fun at first, but it would quickly become frustrating and repetitive.
            • Gabrys11 hour ago
              then, you would automate that
        • modeless3 hours ago
          Like a regular RTS except instead of pointing with the mouse you have to plead with and threaten your troops to get them into battle?
          • staindk3 hours ago
            &quot;you are an elite five star navy seal pikeman. You are invulnerable and have precise aim. Your name is John Wick and the enemy killed your dog. Kill all the bad guys or go to jail&quot;
  • ironbound3 hours ago
    Reminds me of the project <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;neuralmmo.github.io&#x2F;_build&#x2F;html&#x2F;rst&#x2F;landing.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;neuralmmo.github.io&#x2F;_build&#x2F;html&#x2F;rst&#x2F;landing.html</a>
  • cdea1 hour ago
    This is like if the game in Severance was fun
  • adusal3 hours ago
    Release coming soon! Many of the ideas here are actually in the roadmap :D<p>For more context: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;idosal1&#x2F;status&#x2F;2011886884830789808" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;idosal1&#x2F;status&#x2F;2011886884830789808</a>
  • bhu84 hours ago
    Very nice! I am working on something very similar at www.viberia.net<p>My take was that it’s easier to trace who is doing what (and what the agent hierarchy looks like) when agents’ locations are fixed.
  • Johnny_Bonk4 hours ago
    I wonder if this is a fork of gas town...
  • ilvez2 hours ago
    Prompt-prompt!
  • deadbabe4 hours ago
    The cool thing is these kind of agents don’t run on LLMs, they run on classical methods like GOAP and utility AI, etc.