30 comments

  • somat4 hours ago
    I think my biggest beef with the game is how unstable it is.<p>The game design is a bit grindy, whatever, lets grind away then, however any time I start to make any progress the game crashes. After two or three of these I loose interest. Only to try again in 6 months to much the same results.<p>They appear to be following a long term slow burn development plan, nothing wrong with this many of my favorite games follow this same pattern, factorio, valheim, however these games follow the cardinal rule of public development which is &quot;keep it stable&quot; it has been 10 years and star citizen still is a crashy mess.<p>They have a lot of neat tech in their engine, seamless space to surface to inside to instance is not trivial. But I wish they would just sit down for a quarter and stabilize the thing. I like to joke that the elevators in the game are probably some of their most advanced tech, the punchline is that if you have played the game you know that most of the crashes and other weirdness involve elevators. but I am only half-joking. because the elevators really are connecting zones and instances in a cool seamless way.
    • Cthulhu_2 hours ago
      That&#x27;s it, a lot of early access indie games are built using the lessons learned from agile methodology; Factorio recently released a video showcasing the ~6000 tests they have to verify all their complicated systems work as they should, and their velocity is incredible, fixing over 600 bugs in the span of a month (few of which were game-breaking btw, a lot of their bugfixes are fairly trivial).<p>But Star Citizen has all the hallmarks of too much ambitions, too many people, and poor management. They have over a thousand people working on it and have for a long time now. And that scale isn&#x27;t the problem - Rockstar did the same with RDR 2 and will likely exceed it with GTA VI - but while the main guy has some games under his belt, they too had problems with development and actually finishing.
      • Hawxy2 hours ago
        &gt; too much ambitions, too many people, and poor management.<p>The main problem in this case was SC&#x27;s game director. He was around for nine years and set the scope&#x2F;goals&#x2F;roadmap for the game before being abruptly fired 9 months ago and replaced. Through the grape vine I&#x27;ve heard he never provided a long-term vision for the project internally whilst constantly promising new things to the community (ie scope creep).<p>The new game director, Rich, is well liked within the development team and much of the recent CitizenCon event was spent cutting back scope and providing an actual goal for SC 1.0 to release as.
      • newsclues1 hour ago
        I think the problem is too much money.
        • actionfromafar1 hour ago
          Yes and no. The same problems can exist in any org. If there isn&#x27;t much money, it does and we don&#x27;t hear about it. But if you have a lot of money, you can stay on the runway for a <i>long</i> time befoure you run out.
          • ethbr11 hour ago
            The problem with too much money is that it allows for lazy project management practices.<p>And at some scale, it&#x27;s difficult to determine if you are actually making slow progress or deluding yourself and rebuilding the same system for the third time.<p>Similarly, infinite runway means you can infinitely postpone worrying about stability. &quot;We&#x27;re still working on features&quot; etc.
            • newsclues46 minutes ago
              money (payment for goods and services) is a good signal that you are doing good. If you don&#x27;t need to pay attention or the money comes in regardless of the quality of the product, it&#x27;s easy to go off the rails.
    • torginus51 minutes ago
      To this day the whole game feels like an FPS mod, and a poorly tested one at that.<p>Every so often, when a new update comes out, I check out some let&#x27;s player who will, in a span of an hour, will run into some incredibly basic and fundamental bug, like clipping through an elevator and getting ejected into space, or being unable to get through a door that&#x27;s supposed to open.<p>Honestly the whole game feels years away from release.
  • CM303 hours ago
    To be honest, I think the biggest difficulty this game faces is that at this level of funding and this time amount of development time, I&#x27;m not sure you can actually make something that lives up to the hype. From what I&#x27;ve heard the stuff that&#x27;s implemented so far is pretty good, albeit buggy. And the team definitely has the skill to make something amazing.<p>But you don&#x27;t want decent or even good from a project that&#x27;s spent over 12 years in development with over $700 million of development costs. You want a genre defining masterpiece that puts pretty much everything else in the genre (or even industry) to shame.<p>I&#x27;m not sure it&#x27;ll be possible to deliver that, at least to the degree you&#x27;d expect from a game this expensive. At a certain level of development time&#x2F;costs, expectations become so high that it&#x27;s almost impossible not to disappoint everyone with the finished product. And I think Star Citizen passed that point a long time ago.
    • Cthulhu_2 hours ago
      Exactly that. I mean sure, it may visually be up there, and it may have an attention to detail to things like... people shuffling around in line at a cantina or whatever it was I heard about the other day. But that&#x27;s window dressing. If they can&#x27;t get the core technical (= stability, performance) and core gameplay (= is it fun) right, it&#x27;s a flop. Of course, at this point they will never earn as much from sales of the finished product as they have already received and spent on development cost. It won&#x27;t be the next GTA Online. At best it&#x27;ll be as popular as games like Elite Dangerous (fishing in the same pond) or Eve Online, which have player bases that are middling at best compared to the games they&#x27;re competing with budget- and scope-wise, like GTA or Cyberpunk.<p>I mean Cyberpunk&#x27;s launch was terrible as well because it too didn&#x27;t get the basics right - crashes, poorly&#x2F;slowly loading textures, etc.
  • glimshe8 hours ago
    The product isn&#x27;t Star Citizen, but the dream of Star Citizen&#x27;s completion.
    • Hamuko5 hours ago
      So it&#x27;s like the lottery where a lottery ticket doesn&#x27;t really buy you a chance at riches, but the possibility to dream about what you&#x27;d do with riches?
      • saagarjha4 hours ago
        Maybe the real game was the friends we made along the way.
        • spiritplumber1 hour ago
          I&#x27;m about to marry someone I met during the development of the Privateer remake, so... yes, in my case.
  • MisterBiggs13 hours ago
    I funded this back on kickstarter when I was still in high school. I remember the excitement that came with every $1mil milestone, it really felt like an incredible movement that was going to produce something really special. I haven&#x27;t been able to follow progress closely over the past decade, but the gameplay demos have been fun and there always seems to be a decent amount of progress so at this point I think I&#x27;m content waiting.
    • MrMember10 hours ago
      I contributed $35 in the original Kickstarter because I love space sims and the genre was completely dead at that time. I doubt the game will ever come out at this point but I&#x27;m not going to sweat wasting $35 more than ten years ago.
      • jdougan4 hours ago
        I gave them USD 50 for pretty similar reasons plus the additional reason of thanking Roberts for the entertainment I had from his earlier games. Since, I have easily gotten that much entertainment value watching the development, so for me it was a great purchase. ANd they tell me there will be a full game someday, for icing on the cake.
      • HaZeust6 hours ago
        There was this space sim game a while back that was called HELLION, it had <i>so much</i> potential it was unreal. Sadly, some internal affairs and change in priority left it abandoned. You hate to see it.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;store.steampowered.com&#x2F;app&#x2F;588210&#x2F;HELLION&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;store.steampowered.com&#x2F;app&#x2F;588210&#x2F;HELLION&#x2F;</a>
        • mjx06 hours ago
          I played several dozen hours of HELLION with a friend. I wish that game had made it to completion.
      • Cthulhu_2 hours ago
        In between when that kickstarter went off and now, another company funded, built and released Elite Dangerous, then added multiple extensions adding planet surfaces, first-person stuff, etc to it. I mean in terms of gameplay it&#x27;s nowhere near as ambitious and it&#x27;s got an absence of story, but it actually released and gained success.
        • baq2 hours ago
          and yet, nobody talks about elite dangerous on HN, but star citizen gets discussed.<p>like one of the top level comments observes - the sold product is hope that it gets done, not the deliverable.
      • jagermo3 hours ago
        Same. It would be nice to have a game at one point, but No Mans Sky and Elite:Dangerous kind of filled that niche for me.
        • speckx1 hour ago
          I also enjoyed endless space in addition to the two you mentioned.
      • puzzlingcaptcha2 hours ago
        $48 today, adjusted for inflation.
    • zamadatix13 hours ago
      Out of curiosity, do you find the development story itself the worthwhile investment or are you holding out on the bet if you&#x27;ll wait ${years} more then something like the promised feature set will eventually be delivered as the polished, complete, and functional package you&#x27;ve been looking forward to?
      • MisterBiggs11 hours ago
        There is a lot of value in the development story for me. Over time they&#x27;ve almost entirely stopped talking about progress outside of major milestones which is disappointing but theres only so many years in a row you can say server meshing will be finished in 6 months before people get tired of hearing about it.<p>The team seems genuine, and donations aren&#x27;t slowing down, so it seems likely that the game will materialize in some complete form eventually
        • wlesieutre7 hours ago
          I wonder if the $14m “Professional-quality feature-length ‘Behind the Scenes of Star Citizen’ documentary film” stretch goal is still on
          • moomin4 hours ago
            It&#x27;s gonna be longer than &quot;Logistics&quot;.
    • Ylpertnodi5 hours ago
      &gt;so at this point I think I&#x27;m content waiting.<p>&#x27;Content&#x27; meaning &#x27;stuff&#x27;, or &#x27;content&#x27; meaning &#x27;happy? Or both?
      • Olphs3 hours ago
        What would &quot;I&#x27;m stuff waiting&quot; even mean?
        • batch121 hour ago
          Maybe they thought it meant something like &quot;waiting on content&quot;
      • Hikikomori5 hours ago
        Don&#x27;t think he can be stuff.
  • AdmiralAsshat13 hours ago
    Three quarters of a billion dollars apparently still isn&#x27;t enough to resist laying off staff:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;insider-gaming.com&#x2F;cloud-imperium-games-layoffs-report&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;insider-gaming.com&#x2F;cloud-imperium-games-layoffs-repo...</a>
    • Justsignedup6 hours ago
      When your burn rate exceeds your cash flow you cut the burn.<p>They don&#x27;t have much in the bank. They burn over 100 mil a year on headcount.
  • personalityson31 minutes ago
    It has glimpses of an awesome sci-fi atmosphere, which no other game has. I like to do a lot of this: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;0Cii3MWNN8M?si=n2WMfQfgxciRZj0A&amp;t=75" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;0Cii3MWNN8M?si=n2WMfQfgxciRZj0A&amp;t=75</a>
  • mekster3 hours ago
    A good example of how no money can guarantee a timely quality release. It only makes people lazy when they realize they have decades of time to waste.
  • skrebbel5 hours ago
    Wow, what a ride. As a non-gamer, I clicked the link, saw a site that looks like it&#x27;s Best Viewed In Internet Explorer, with a ticker of an obscenely high dollar amount. It took me a good 2 minutes to figure out this was about a video game.<p>I&#x27;m very impressed they managed to raise this kind of money with a site like this.
    • RUnconcerned3 hours ago
      Regardless of Star Citizen being a huge scam, a Hackernews encountering a site that does not look like all the b2b SaaS sites and being surprised that it managed to raise money is extremely funny.
    • Hawxy4 hours ago
      The website is a fun mix of ancient Vue that was written a decade ago alongside an ongoing overhaul that has replaced the menu and most main pages with React.
  • spiritplumber13 hours ago
    I backed Star Citizen in the first round (you may remember me from the Wing Commander Privateer remake) and... honestly the thing is, since I did, Space Engineers came out and scratched that itch better than any of this could.
    • sen3 hours ago
      Space Engineers is still to date my favourite space sim of all time. It has a steep learning curve and is ideally played with a few mods (encounters etc), but even stock standard it’s such an incredible game that only gets better the more you play it.
  • hipadev2313 hours ago
    Genuine question: Who looks at a video game that has raised hundreds of millions and think “Yeah they need more cash to get this out”
    • usrusr12 hours ago
      Nobody does. They pay for a unique service, not as a handout.<p>&quot;Finally I can be at the forefront of a gaming community just how I dreamt of when I was a kid. And in this particular gaming community, I don&#x27;t even have to waste a minute playing!&quot; It&#x27;s suspension of disbelief pushed ahead one more level, a simulation of a space ship sim game. Think virtual virtual skeeball in Futurama s01e02. Just how kids who dream of risking their lives in a space-Spitfire don&#x27;t really want to risk their lives in a space-Spitfire, grown ups who dream of sinking countless hours in a game of space-Spitfires don&#x27;t really want to sink countless hours in a game of space-Spitfires. Both just don&#x27;t quite know it yet, and profoundly enjoy that.
      • vasco6 hours ago
        It&#x27;s sounding a lot like fraud. And your whole stance seems to be &quot;nobody knows what it means but it&#x27;s provocative&quot;.
        • lukan5 hours ago
          People feel entertained. And new code and new models get shipped. So maybe underdelivered, but why fraud? That would require a intention to mislead.
        • usrusr4 hours ago
          You&#x27;re assuming that they don&#x27;t have their own disbelief properly suspended. The illusion works, against all objective signs of failure, because they are believing it themselves. It&#x27;s like Dafoe&#x27;s Schreck delivering a very convincing Nosferatu in Shadow of the Vampire.
        • InsideOutSanta3 hours ago
          People are playing this game and apparently deriving enjoyment from it, that&#x27;s why they&#x27;re paying for things in the game. I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s fraud, it&#x27;s just kind of weird from the outside.
    • noirbot13 hours ago
      I don&#x27;t think that&#x27;s why people are giving them money at this point. They&#x27;re paying for stuff in the game that happens to be rewards for &quot;crowdfunding&quot; the game. It&#x27;s not a &quot;Just 100 more bucks and maybe they&#x27;ll deliver&quot;, it&#x27;s folks already playing the content that&#x27;s in the game and buying further ships or such for whatever reason.
      • lolinder13 hours ago
        Then this isn&#x27;t crowdfunding any more, it&#x27;s DLC revenue.
        • eloisant2 hours ago
          Yes I don&#x27;t know why we&#x27;re still talking about Star Citizen as a crowdfunding project in development.<p>It&#x27;s a released game that is constantly evolving and getting money from in-game purchases, like Fortnite.
        • popcorncowboy3 hours ago
          But nowhere near as clickable a headline
    • dmix13 hours ago
      They apparently found every whale gamer on the market willing to buy virtual ships and stuff like that. I think all expenditure towards the game is counted as &quot;crowdfunding&quot;
      • mh-11 hours ago
        That player database is worth a fortune.
        • oefrha7 hours ago
          Yes, gullible, impulsive gamers are worth more than most people would imagine. According to an industry insider who I talked to recently, a casino-like mobile game sold its users for ~$300 a piece, and that’s counting the majority of non-whale users who don’t spend a dime.
    • speckx1 hour ago
      Not me. I funded them initially on Kickstarter for $35. I won’t fund anymore, I’m only in it for the single player Squadron 42 game.
    • NelsonMinar13 hours ago
      They&#x27;re exploiting people who are vulnerable to collecting impulses.
      • HKH212 hours ago
        So it&#x27;s consumeristic, but all gaming is.
        • TulliusCicero4 hours ago
          That&#x27;s super reductive. There&#x27;s a pretty obvious difference between playing a game that only requires a modest one time fee for the whole thing, versus a game that somehow gets people to drop hundreds, even thousands of dollars for repeated purchases of virtual spaceships.
          • HKH22 hours ago
            Sure, the difference is the amount. None of it is necessary.
            • aithrowawaycomm1 hour ago
              I don’t think “consumerism is when people purchase luxury goods, especially goods I disapprove of” is a meaningful definition.
        • whaaaaat7 hours ago
          All gaming is not consumeristic. That&#x27;s like saying all art is consumeristic, or all music is.<p>Play this game: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;passage.toolness.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;passage.toolness.org&#x2F;</a><p>It&#x27;s 5 minutes long.<p>Read the creator&#x27;s discussion on it: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hcsoftware.sourceforge.net&#x2F;passage&#x2F;statement.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hcsoftware.sourceforge.net&#x2F;passage&#x2F;statement.html</a><p>Hardly seems consumeristic. And there&#x27;s a huge pile of games like this out there.
          • runj__5 hours ago
            I always get so happy when Passage and Rohrer is mentioned, when I first played Sleep is Death my life changed, creating a story with so little but still endless possibilities. I made a js-version of it but never polished it enough, my first coding project inspired by a true vision, I learned so much.<p>I share your appreciation of Passage, it is a poem by another shape and a truly _different_ thing. Thank you for even mentioning it, it made my day.
          • HKH23 hours ago
            &gt; All gaming is not consumeristic. That&#x27;s like saying all art is consumeristic, or all music is.<p>Sure. None of those are necessary.
            • sjsdaiuasgdia1 hour ago
              It seems rather reductive to equate lack of explicit necessity with consumerism.<p>If I sing a song to myself, is that consumerism?<p>If someone else hears my singing and enjoys it, with no discussion of payment or exchange from either side, is that consumerism?
      • Loughla12 hours ago
        Isn&#x27;t that just most people though?
        • michaelt2 hours ago
          Perhaps it&#x27;s culturally dependent?<p>The community I grew up in could not accurately be described as poor, but money was tighter than in a lot of places. So people in this community prize getting good value for money, and not being tricked into wasting money.<p>I don&#x27;t care if that Funko Pop plastic figurine or that Magic The Gathering card is actually an investment that will go up in value, I ain&#x27;t collecting shit.<p>In my mind, the collectables market is only for a small fraction of the population - fools, and people with more money than sense.
        • UltraSane10 hours ago
          Most people don&#x27;t spend thousands of dollars on fake space ships.
          • ikekkdcjkfke7 hours ago
            I thnk programmers fall in a trap since we already have deconstructed whats going on. Normal people actually get attached to the pixels on screen
            • 0x1ceb00da4 hours ago
              Yeah. Instead of money programmers spend thousands of hours mastering videogames like factorio.
        • HKH212 hours ago
          It seems like a majority. The people that collect NFTs should be in their own category though.
          • Loughla11 hours ago
            I always assumed that people buying nft&#x27;s fell into three categories: a) fomo with crypto and feeling like this night be the next one, or b) zero critical reasoning skills, or c) wanted to make someone else hold the bag after eating losses on crypto or stocks at some point.<p>Either way, real question; are nft&#x27;s still being traded?
            • eloisant2 hours ago
              I think they are, for money laundering.
    • danpalmer7 hours ago
      Others have left the likely real answers here, but...<p>$750m is the right order of magnitude for this game. That&#x27;s &quot;only&quot; ~400 employees for ~10 years. Games are hugely labour intensive, and in mainstream cases also hugely advertising intensive. The company currently have ~60 open roles. Your average Call of Duty game is $100-200m, and they come out with one every year or two, spending at a similar rate. The budget for GTA V was $265m, but has now made $8bn.<p>I don&#x27;t think we can even say that it&#x27;s &quot;bad&quot; or &quot;unfinished&quot; and therefore shouldn&#x27;t cost this much... the game is finished in the truest of senses – it&#x27;s available to buy and brings in revenue. Whether they are continuing development, whether it currently sucks, etc, are all somewhat irrelevant.<p>I think we can judge it for being a bad game, I think we can judge it for not being cash-flow positive like we would with any other startup, but the amount of money involved is seemingly in the right ballpark for the market.
      • TulliusCicero4 hours ago
        It&#x27;s been more than ten years though? The kickstarter was in 2012, and they&#x27;d already been working on it for a year or two by then I think?
      • rowanG0776 hours ago
        I don&#x27;t think comparing GTA, the most financially successful game of all time, to star citizen does star citizen any favors. Star citizen is a very niche game, even if they will do everything they plan I don&#x27;t expect they will even approach 500m in sales.
        • yreg5 hours ago
          They have already passed 100s of millions in sales. We can consider some of the earlier money inflows &#x27;donations&#x27;, but what&#x27;s happening nowadays is de facto sales.
          • Vespasian3 hours ago
            Buyers in Europe pay full VAT for Star citizen &quot;donations&quot; since that law was introduced many years ago.<p>So at least the EU and UK believe these transactions to be sales.
        • wongogue5 hours ago
          These players are not investors expecting a return. In a way the game has already got them $750m.
    • Hamuko5 hours ago
      Cyberpunk 2077 needed like $100+ million on top of the original $300+ million budget to get Phantom Liberty out and to patch the game to a point where the general public stopped hating the game.<p>Still, even with all of the money sunk into Cyberpunk 2077, its ~$450 million budget pales in comparison to Star Citizen.
      • machinekob36 minutes ago
        Cyberpunk have a massive problems caused by success of Witcher 3 a lot and i mean A LOT of people move to western studios and they were best engineers in the company.<p>They still have people problem as pay in CDPR is pathetic compared to other studios and not much top talent want to work there.<p>Cyberpunk 2077 budget was overblown thanks to that + ~50% of that was spend on marketing I would assume there were also a lot of IP &quot;costs&quot; so overall &quot;production&quot; cost was probably about ~30-40% of the budget.
      • roygbiv25 hours ago
        And it&#x27;s still full of bugs (Cyberpunk 2077). I&#x27;ve just bought it on sale, it&#x27;s annoying close to being bloody amazing but every so often you get someone T posing or just something else that ruins it.
        • gambiting4 hours ago
          I&#x27;ve completed the game start to finish 3 times now and I&#x27;ve only really seen any bugs on my first playthrough close to launch. Post DLC I honestly hand on heart don&#x27;t recall any.
          • lukebitts1 hour ago
            I could open my copy of the game right now and find a bug in 5 minutes. That has been a constant for me since the game released and until at least 3 months ago when I last played
  • mdavid6266 hours ago
    I can’t close the cookie popup on my iPhone SE 2020. It’s a shame that we reached this state in 2024.
  • kleiba1 hour ago
    In unrelated news, &quot;Unknown Realm&quot; was apparently demoed at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo this year: ttps:&#x2F;&#x2F;stirringdragon.games&#x2F;portland-recap-pt-1&#x2F;
  • corobo4 hours ago
    At that level of funding and the amount of time it&#x27;s taken I wonder what percent of their backers are dying waiting on this<p>In another 10 years I&#x27;ll add &quot;of old age&quot; to the wonder<p>I can no longer remember a time where the internet wasn&#x27;t waiting for Star Citizen haha
  • blitzar4 hours ago
    Sunk cost fallacy at its finest<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sunk_cost" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sunk_cost</a>
  • Smithalicious4 hours ago
    And when this all blows up everyone will walk away without a scratch. In a just society everybody involved in this mess would spend a double digit number of years in jail.
  • Refusing237 hours ago
    Im still a bit disappointed that they keep increasing the scope<p>instead of just getting the promised game out the door, and then creating some large free content updates as time progresses.<p>its getting a bit redicilous<p>i mean, they have motion capture and voice acting from mark hamill and Gary oldman (and probably more) and they&#x27;re gonna die before the game is released
  • honeybadger12 hours ago
    This game mirrors the paradox of a flawed system—like a government program that perpetually stumbles, yet justifies its failures as the inevitable consequence of insufficient means, forever seeking more while never addressing the root of its shortcomings.
  • dyauspitr14 hours ago
    This is a question for someone that has been playing star citizen for a long time. How close are we to an actually playable game? How good is what they have built so far?
    • aucisson_masque13 hours ago
      Take my answer for what it’s worth, never played the game although I am curious because of all the people calling it a scam and take a look on YouTube once every few month.<p>It looks like a game in alpha, very very buggy, very little content. I am amazed at the time it takes them to add stuff, with a budget of 65 million things should have been going steadily but every time there is an update they promise not much to start with and even then always cancel things.<p>Personally I am absolutely convinced it’s a scam, they have to improve the game for legal reason but do the bare minimum and focus more on adding new ship they can sell than actual gameplay feature.
      • aeonik13 hours ago
        It&#x27;s definitely not a scam, just a highly ambitious project that spends more time on mechanics and infrastructure than content.<p>The ships by themselves are works of art. And their main funding apparatus, so of course the put an inordinate amount of effort towards this.<p>The bugs are definitely a problem, though they are migrating the entire infrastructure at the moment into a highly available cluster that is intended to keep all players on a single persistent universe like Eve online.<p>The combat is pretty good, but much of the game breaks down because of poorly performing code&#x2F;servers.<p>I think their current clusters accumulate a lot leaks that eventually degrade the experience.<p>I&#x27;d honestly be very curious what their internal architecture looks like in more detail.
        • harrall12 hours ago
          I remember an ambitious project that spent more time on mechanics and infrastructure than content… Starbound.<p>And in the end, there was no game.
          • aeonik12 hours ago
            Star Citizen is playable now.<p>The community overwhelmingly voted for the scope screep. Myself included.<p>They could freeze the features now, fix the bugs, and finish the content and it&#x27;d be the best space game ever.<p>But the vision is bigger than that for better or for worse.<p>I really do have a lot of fun with it right now when it&#x27;s not bugging out. Which changes like the seasons.
          • dgellow5 hours ago
            I don’t get the comparison, I’ve played a lot of starbound. What do you mean „there was no game“?
          • gambiting4 hours ago
            Wait....what? Starbound is definitely a game that&#x27;s done and finished and you can sink hundreds of hours into it. What are you talking about?
        • aucisson_masque13 hours ago
          Cmon, I sure hope with 750 millions they managed to hire artist to make ships. That’s maybe a few dozen or hundreds of thousands of dollars.<p>In 10 years with that amount of money surely they could hire very talented people to manage development of server backend. The state in which the game is currently is a disgrace. It should be done or close to the end, not still at the beginning where you’re trying to make everything persistent. The infrastructure is what takes the most time and what you build first, like a house foundation. Instead they made the roof and the wall, sold them with lots of promise and now are working on foundations. I sure wouldn’t trust or buy from a such a contractor.
          • aeonik12 hours ago
            I played Chris Robert&#x27;s stuff starting with Wing Commander in the early 90s.<p>A lot of us did.<p>He&#x27;s not a scammer, we know who he is, flaws and all.<p>The project might fail, though I don&#x27;t think it will, but it really doesn&#x27;t make sense that he would be running a scam.<p>He wants this game as much as anyone.<p>Technical mistakes and all that kind of stuff make sense and aligns much more with what I have seen over the course of my career.<p>I do agree that they could move faster on the backend infrastructure if they had the right talent, but they started off really small over 10 years ago. They basically bootstrapped all their knowledge and talent.
        • moralestapia12 hours ago
          &gt;It&#x27;s definitely not a scam, just a highly ambitious project that spends more time on mechanics and infrastructure than content.<p>That&#x27;s twice or perhaps triple the amount of money and time spent on Grand Theft Auto V. A great game that consistently scores 9 or 10 out of 10 on every single list you find it.<p>I found it easier to believe that is a scam that to believe they will put out a game twice as good than GTA V.
          • usrusr12 hours ago
            You can have just about any amount of inefficiency in game making before it&#x27;s a scam. Some are both highly funded and effective, others only the former. Just look how little Zwift has achieved with a similar amount of funding. I mean sure, it&#x27;s playable and and does what it&#x27;s supposed to do, and played by thousands of paying users at any given moment, but the same was true when they had burnt through a tenth of that money.
          • aithrowawaycomm3 hours ago
            I have no interest in Star Citizen or any other MMO, and parts of its funding and development are shamelessly dishonest, but GTA V is not a fair comparison for a number of reasons:<p>- In a broad sense GTA V has fewer gameplay features and smaller constructed playable areas: Star Citizen is a bigger game, it is natural that it is more expensive. Your comment doesn’t really refute the point that SC spends its money on mechanics and infrastructure (though it seems to me that they spend a stupid amount of money on cosmetics).<p>- Star Citizen has fancier graphics and more detailed assets - RDR2 is a more relevant comparison here and that game was $500m.<p>- The GTA V figure is for a single-player game and (on release) a fairly middling and empty online mode. It does not include ongoing development costs for GTA Online, which has grown substantially over the years. GTA V + Online would be a more appropriate comparison: the $750m for Star Citizen includes ships added in 2023, but the GTA figure doesn’t include cars in 2023.<p>I would add that the $2bn estimate for GTA VI is credible based on Take-Two’s financial reports.
            • Topfi1 hour ago
              &gt; RDR2 is a more relevant comparison here and that game was $500m.<p>I feel that comparison is flawed, seeing as most of that was for advertising.<p>If we go purely by development funds, one would have to combine GTA V [0], RDR2 [1] and Cyberpunk 2077&#x27;s [2] budget.<p>That would still be $100 million short of the $750 million that RSI has as yet received purely for development. Add to that, you are comparing finished (albeit in the case of CP77 at launch at most feature complete, which is why I also included Phantom Liberty) titles to something that only approaches pre alpha state, considering it only has a limited number of core features implemented. How everything they intend to offer will interact with eachother can&#x27;t even be tested and I have my personal reservations that once we get to that alpha stage, it will be smooth sailing.<p>I also feel that while one can argue that GTA V by itself may not have had the same amount of features and scope that have been promised with Star Citizen, I feel one equally can argue that the latter definitely will have less scope than the three named games combined, should there ever be a full release.<p>&gt; the $750m for Star Citizen includes ships added in 2023, but the GTA figure doesn’t include cars in 2023<p>Yeah, but RSI intends to sell ships and expand the game beyond the initial full release, so I don&#x27;t see how that changes things.<p>Fully admitting that I personally inherently dislike this approach to development. I feel that not having a somewhat fixed budget, no matter whether from the community, an investor, or (in the case of Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night) a mix of both, creates the inherent incentive to sell your most faithful supporters on an ever expanding vision, to the detriment of them, your development team, and your long-term reputation. I feel history has shown with cases such as Minecraft that a one-time sale during early development is far better at both keeping development focused and raining in overambitiousness, as you are more interested in selling to new rather than existing customers, thus being incentivized to improve the experience for everyone by creating a finished, polished product.<p>I know that the community was asked each time on expansions and additional features, but emotional investment and the sunk cost falacy always made that an unfair argument in my opinion.<p>[0] estimated at $130 million to $150 million<p>[1] estimated at $170 million to $240 million<p>[2] estimated at $120 million to $140 million with an additional 275 million PLN (about $65 million) for Phantom Liberty and bug fixes
          • gorbachev6 hours ago
            That&#x27;s because they&#x27;re now on something like v4 (v3? v5?) of most of the technology behind the game.<p>They keep reworking everything over and over and over again.<p>And at this point why wouldn&#x27;t they? Their customers have pretty much shown they&#x27;ll continue to pay for all of that rework in perpetuity.
      • UltraSane10 hours ago
        They have put a lot of work into their back end. They working on a really innovative server meshing system that can automatically and seamlessly balance the game world and entities across multiple servers. Your character can migrate to a different server and you will have no idea it happened and can still interact with characters on a different server.
    • tarcon6 hours ago
      Youtube has a video of a frustrated Chris Roberts struggling to play from 8 years ago, which basically shows the same game we have today.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=ZWq8ynUq7wM" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=ZWq8ynUq7wM</a>
    • aeonik14 hours ago
      It&#x27;s in a quantum superposition of being really good and unplayable, and releasable soon and infinite scope creep.
      • NelsonMinar13 hours ago
        Also <i>not releasing</i> is a highly profitable strategy for them.
        • aeonik12 hours ago
          I disagree, they&#x27;d make way more money releasing the game to a wider audience and continuing the strategy with a larger pool of customers.<p>Though the incentive to release is definitely weaker due to them making so much money prior to official release.
          • mh-11 hours ago
            That supposes there <i>is</i> a larger pool of customers to be had. Putting this in B2B terms: what % of their TAM is already &quot;in&quot;?
          • dpig_5 hours ago
            Who will play this game that isn&#x27;t already playing it?
            • Iulioh3 hours ago
              Me?<p>I&#x27;m watching from a distance.
          • imtringued6 hours ago
            Releasing the game costs money and their money making strategy remains the same after release There is no incentive to deliver anything other than digital collectibles.
      • adastra227 hours ago
        So, Daikatana?
        • moomin4 hours ago
          I feel like this is the right comparison, except that the gap between ambition and reality is even larger but it hasn&#x27;t made anything like the cultural impact.
    • CaptainFever5 hours ago
      I play it sometimes. It feels truly &quot;next gen&quot;, in that it feels like a very buggy, early-access version of Elite Dangerous 2.0. Overambitious, for good (it does things no other game does), or for worse (the time and budget required). Definitely mismanaged though, in the amount of repeated effort required (e.g. AAA-quality assets that would be replaced anyway, which should have been prototype-quality instead).
    • stubish12 hours ago
      Pretty much at any point in their development they have had amazing visuals and disappointing game play compared to other games already on the market. As a concrete example, game play wise it has been chasing Elite Dangerous since it was released 10 years ago. I believe Eve Online too (but you can&#x27;t get out of the cockpit there?). Even single player Starfield. I think the project has been taking so long because, when they release something, it needs not be a disappointment.<p>Supposedly, the single player Squadron 42 part of Star Citizen is feature complete, and if they can get that out of the door will be telling on what the MMO release would be like. Personally, I&#x27;m expecting Squadron 42 to be comparable to other releases that year, but better voice acting, more jank, PC only, and poor controller support. And given the focus on &#x27;players making their own story&#x27;, I&#x27;m expecting the MMO to suffer the same reception as Elite Dangerous with a shiny engine trying to hide tedious and repetitive game play (but many people like that, and it might remain a profitable niche game).
    • t-writescode13 hours ago
      I expect Star Citizen is going to be one of those games that won&#x27;t get tons and tons of new players (maybe double its total count right now? Is that a lot?) But the people that play it are dedicated and very, very interested in the experience that it brings.<p>So, perhaps you (for example) will never, ever be interested in playing the game for anywhere near the amount of time that would justify the cost of entry, but for the specific space exploration &#x2F; worldbuilding experience that Star Citizen provides, and for the people that want exactly that, it was and is a fantastic game.
      • zamadatix13 hours ago
        Agree on the take except replace &quot;space exploration&#x2F;worldbuilding experience&quot; with &quot;ship model buying experience&quot;. The former is a very common desire and what one might take away from reading about the game, the latter is more akin to what has been delivered so far and what people still spending money on the game seem to care a lot about.
    • CoastalCoder14 hours ago
      &gt; This is a question for someone that has been playing star citizen for a long time. How close are we to an actually playable game?<p>I&#x27;m probably missing your point, but it sounds like you&#x27;ve answered your own question.
  • nottorp4 hours ago
    That&#x27;s 750k golden ships at 1000 each?<p>Golden the Ship Was - Oh! Oh! Oh!
  • doctorpangloss13 hours ago
    The game focuses on the idea of the idea of a space game which turns out to be what people really pay for, ie space real estate, ie limited edition ships, ie works of art.<p>Another POV is that it would be much simpler to have waited 10 years and developed NFTs in 2021 instead.<p>If you have the skills to hype an aesthetic experience for a broad audience; and you’re so cynical as to not really do anything; just make a shitcoin. Make an NFT. Doing all this other work is a huge waste of time.
    • djmips7 hours ago
      I don&#x27;t think you have the skills to hype an aesthetic experience for a broad audience.
  • v3ss0n2 hours ago
    And yet still full of bug in empty space with only boring things to do.
  • blackeyeblitzar13 hours ago
    I don’t get how it keeps getting funding. It always comes off as a glorified tech demo, and makes me think people are just funding a leisurely game studio hobby for the developers instead of a story they can experience.
  • empressplay13 hours ago
    Maybe with that much money they can have Mac and Windows clients too...?
    • Iulioh3 hours ago
      It won&#x27;t ever happen.<p>It needs BEEF to run and macs are not capable of that much cow.
  • ConcernedCoder7 hours ago
    so who&#x27;s holding the $750 million?
    • jdlshore6 hours ago
      They spend it as it comes in, mostly on salaries. It’s a large company. Their financials are publicly available if you care to look.
  • globalnode11 hours ago
    and yet theres still no game
  • Elizabeth014710 hours ago
    [dead]
  • gigatexal6 hours ago
    An incredible number for sure. But space sims meh. I’d give 750M to Gave Newell for HL3 (yes I know it was never finished etc etc).
  • Cloudef4 hours ago
    Scam Citizen
  • bsder14 hours ago
    Erm, I think somebody missed a power of 10 somewhere in the title. Their funding is definitely not $750 million.<p>Although, $75 million is still impressive.<p>Edit: I stand corrected. I simply looked at the website which listed the stretch goals to $65 million and missed the $750 million total. Cowabunga.
    • aeonik13 hours ago
      It&#x27;s not a typo, it&#x27;s 750 million.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_highest-funded_crowdfunding_projects" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_highest-funded_crowd...</a>
      • vunderba13 hours ago
        There&#x27;s not a lot of transparency around their funding - and the only indication that they&#x27;ve raised $700+ million is... their own website.<p>They also claim around 5 million backers which puts the average donation at around 150 dollars. That seems <i>really</i> high.<p>From the wikipedia article, the next highest <i>game</i> is Prison Architect at a comparatively paltry 20 million.<p>It&#x27;s still possible. On the other hand, it could all be completely PR bull crap since there&#x27;s no way to audit them.
        • anomaly_13 hours ago
          They have to file accurate statements with the UK government re some R&amp;D tax incentives they claim; you can have a look at those filings on companies house. They lag the website but broadly align.<p>+ the $750m only includes ship sales. If you include other revenue (subscriptions) and investors, they are likely at $900m+ now.
          • vunderba13 hours ago
            The only thing I could find in their filing history was from 2022 for their full accounts - revenue at that time as hovering around 50mil USD.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk&#x2F;company&#x2F;08882924&#x2F;filing-history" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk&#x2F;c...</a><p>EDIT: From Companies House <i>Next accounts made up to 31 December 2023 due by 31 December 2024</i>.<p>So I guess we&#x27;ll find out in roughly a month.
        • yungporko3 hours ago
          they sell virtual spaceships for thousands of dollars, i know a guy who bought several of them like 8 years ago. if he represents the average star citizen supporter (in the sense of being willing and eager to pay more money into a game you&#x27;ve already paid for, for rewards that don&#x27;t actually exist, in a game that shows absolutely zero promise of ever actually releasing), i believe it.
        • MisterBiggs13 hours ago
          &gt; average donation at around 150 dollars. That seems really high.<p>Check out the store, its absurd what they are able to charge for completely digital assets that don&#x27;t even exist in game yet
          • aeonik12 hours ago
            DCS has the same model, and I think it&#x27;s a fair price considering how much work goes into these assets.
      • aucisson_masque13 hours ago
        Holy duck. That can’t be true, it said 65 millions on the website but I must have read it wrong.<p>10 years of development, 750 millions budget and people are still not convinced it’s a scam ? They want it so much, damn.
        • waste_monk10 hours ago
          I occasionally check on Star Citizen &quot;development&quot; just to look at the drama, and some of the stuff they&#x27;re selling is straight-up obscene. There are ship packs that cost literally tens of thousands of USD (IIRC the most expensive one (legatus pack) is ~50k USD), and you have to have already bought thousands of dollars worth before you&#x27;re allowed to buy it.<p>Chris Roberts might be a huge con artist, but there&#x27;s no doubt he&#x27;s mastered the art of milking gullible whales for all of their cash.<p>Also, I always laugh when I see people talking about buying copies of Star Citizen for their kids so they can play together when the kid grows up. Seems pretty unlikely that the game will be out by then, given they&#x27;ve spent 10+ years with no meaningful progress.
        • edm0nd13 hours ago
          It walks the line of a scam imo. They have developed and released enough of a &quot;game&quot; to keep stringing people along and pulling the correct heart strings to keep getting new funds.
          • smcin4 hours ago
            &quot;Term limits&quot; for Kickstarter games...?<p>On the other hand we have the Asmodee Digital business model: release an (initially) broken game somewhat on schedule with tons of bugs (Terraforming Mars) and only start fixing a few of the bugs if you sell enough copies [0]. But don&#x27;t fix enough of them to the level where the digital version is as playable as the physical version, not for 5 years at least... in all sincerity I don&#x27;t know why it&#x27;s not acceptable to call something a beta release, price it and set expectations accordingly - but with a defined timeline (or revenue goal) to when it should become fully playable.<p>I&#x27;m also reminded of the failed Mycroft AI voice assistant [1].<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;videogamegeek.com&#x2F;thread&#x2F;2206151&#x2F;cthulhu-reviews-terraforming-mars-comparing-the-di" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;videogamegeek.com&#x2F;thread&#x2F;2206151&#x2F;cthulhu-reviews-ter...</a> [1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?q=mycroft+ai" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?q=mycroft+ai</a>
          • yungporko3 hours ago
            yeah i believe that it isn&#x27;t an <i>intentional</i> scam, but from the POV of a customer, it would be totally indistinguishable from one and the end result is the same: taking money from gullible people for a promise that will never be fulfilled. i think it&#x27;s just a poorly managed pipe dream product that won&#x27;t ever get out of development hell.<p>if the people involved in the management were half decent at their jobs they would have stopped expanding the scope and shipped the originally promised game 5 years ago, and then carried on releasing expansions like elite does.
        • Ekaros4 hours ago
          I think it is idiotic, but I don&#x27;t think it is outright scam. Just comparable to over funded start-up waste. Burning money on every possible feature or thing or detail sensesly.
    • ianburrell13 hours ago
      Crowdfunding passed $150 million in 2017, and $300 million in 2020, $500 million in 2022. $750 million is believable.<p>I&#x27;m really surprised that they are still raising money this fast. I would have thought people lost interest. Most of the discussions online are negative. There was fans buying ships, but I can&#x27;t see that generating that much money.
    • edm0nd13 hours ago
      The game has taken in hundreds of millions of dollars over the years and has still been &quot;in progress&quot; the entire time. It&#x27;s a borderline scam imo.
    • hotsauceror13 hours ago
      The article clearly indicates the funding milestones and dates.