17 comments

  • GeneticGenesis17 hours ago
    I know it&#x27;s not public domain per-say, but for me, the thing that&#x27;s most exciting is that in 2025, the last remaining patents on the h.264 (AVC) video codec will expire [1].<p>Now if only HEVC wasn&#x27;t such a hot patent &#x2F; licensing mess.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;meta.wikimedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Have_the_patents_for_H.264_MPEG-4_AVC_expired_yet%3F" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;meta.wikimedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Have_the_patents_for_H.264_M...</a>
    • iterance16 hours ago
      Just thought you might want to know - it&#x27;s &quot;per se&quot; not &quot;per say&quot;&#x2F;variations thereof.
      • asveikau16 hours ago
        <i>Per se</i> is latin for &quot;for itself&quot;.
        • casta15 hours ago
          I&#x27;d say &quot;by itself&quot;.
          • asveikau15 hours ago
            That&#x27;s another valid translation for the same preposition.<p>And there are many definitions of English &quot;for&quot; as well. This would fit the one used in the phrase &quot;if not for this, ...&quot; In other words, for itself = by virtue of itself, through the existence of itself.<p>Also note in terms of Indo European roots, per is a cognate with English for.
            • dhosek14 hours ago
              Prepositions are some of the least translatable bits of language. For that matter, even without translation they tend to get slippery within a language, especially over time (one that springs to mind is the whole “quarter of” referring to a time which I first encountered some 50 years ago and still don’t know if it’s quarter <i>to</i> or quarter <i>after</i>).¹<p>⸻<p>1. Cue some dude to tell me in 3…2…1²<p>2. And this knowledge will promptly disappear from my brain five minutes later, sort of like the guy I knew in my 20s whose name was either Jack or Chad and to this date, I still am not sure, but I do know that every single time I called him by name, I got it wrong and it totally wasn’t on purpose even though he didn’t believe me.
              • dghf1 hour ago
                Tok Pisin, a.k.a. New Guinea Pidgin, has exactly two prepositions: <i>bilong,</i> which means &quot;of&quot; or &quot;from&quot; in a possessive or attributive sense; and <i>long,</i> which means everything else.
              • zelphirkalt5 hours ago
                That&#x27;s my cue!<p>I once had a Spanish teacher, who also had problems remembering what that kind of time specification stands for and I came up with maybe a trick to remember. We do the same thing in German, so I guess it translates:<p>Lets say you have 11:00. That&#x27;s easy. But what about 11:15? We would say &quot;quarter 12&quot;, so I guess the English version is &quot;quarter of 12&quot;. How to memorize, that this is 11:15? Well, you can imagine a round clock and the minute pointer has moved _quarter of its way to 12_. So you only have a quarter of that hour &quot;already done&quot;. 10:30? We say &quot;half 11&quot;. So I guess English is &quot;half of 11&quot;, meaning that the minute pointer has moved half the way to 11.<p>Maybe this will help.<p>(Actually I personally usually don&#x27;t use those ways of specifying the time, neither in English nor in German. I just say the 24h format as it is written: &quot;11:15&quot; is &quot;eleven fifteen&quot;, 13:35 is &quot;thirteen thirtee five&quot; not 1pm something.)
                • Melatonic2 minutes ago
                  This is not great advice - the only way I have heard it in English would be &quot;quarter past 11&quot; to mean 11:15. Most people would just say &quot;eleven fifteen&quot;.
                • card_zero1 hour ago
                  Whatever &quot;quarter of 12&quot; means in English, whether it&#x27;s 11:45 (quarter to 12) or 12:15 (quarter past 12), it definitely isn&#x27;t 11:15. We do <i>fraction of an hour forward or backward relative to the hour mentioned,</i> not <i>fraction of an hour elapsed in approach to hour mentioned.</i><p>I recently encountered a German asking for the English phrase equivalent to <i>bis unter,</i> looking for a phrase like &quot;up to below&quot;. There isn&#x27;t one in common use. We just don&#x27;t count things in equivalent ways.
    • philistine14 hours ago
      That&#x27;s incredible. With MP3 already completely patent-free as well, we have an extraordinary free set of audio and video codecs for the next couple of decade, at least until HEVC becomes free.
      • yaomtc9 hours ago
        Let&#x27;s not forget Opus. Not technically patent-free but it practically is. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Opus_(audio_format)#Patent_claims" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Opus_(audio_format)#Patent_cla...</a><p>Also Vorbis has always been patent free.
    • walrus0116 hours ago
      One of the primary reasons why AV1 exists is because HEVC is such a hot mess.
      • TiredOfLife3 hours ago
        There are already two patent pools for av1 that want rent.
    • a1o14 hours ago
      In the link it seems the last patent in US go as long as 2027?<p>If the patents really expire in 2025, is there an already open source library written either in C or C++ one could use for reading h.264?
      • mtlynch12 hours ago
        Cisco published their implementation under BSD license:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;cisco&#x2F;openh264&#x2F;">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;cisco&#x2F;openh264&#x2F;</a>
        • extraduder_ire18 minutes ago
          They also make a reproducible build of it for firefox in order to shield mozilla from patent suits.
  • retrac3 minutes ago
    Thanks to the retroactive extension here in Canada, absolutely nothing.
  • Amorymeltzer17 hours ago
    It&#x27;s advent calendar-style, so &lt;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;2025_in_public_domain" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;2025_in_public_domain</a>&gt; might be more informative.
    • leoc16 hours ago
      <i>Red Harvest</i> is in there? You can be sure that number of film and TV writers, and perhaps directors and producers, have set their alarm clocks for that one. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;crimereads.com&#x2F;the-strange-cinematic-afterlife-of-red-harvest&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;crimereads.com&#x2F;the-strange-cinematic-afterlife-of-re...</a>
      • cxr16 hours ago
        You may be interested to know that the story for The Maltese Falcon, not listed, will also be entering public domain because it was published in monthly installments in Black Mask magazine before it was published as a novel. (Any changes between the publication in Black Mask and those made for the novelization, if significant enough, will of course still be under copyright and so the novelization proper still won&#x27;t be entering public domain for another 13 months.)<p>We have had difficulty getting our hands on these issues, though (or scans of them).<p>It&#x27;s interesting that AMC just launched a series featuring Sam Spade this year, the year <i>before</i> the character goes into the public domain…
        • qingcharles12 hours ago
          When you say, &quot;we&quot; who do you mean? Are the magazines particularly rare?
          • cxr12 hours ago
            Those of us trying to get them scanned in and online.<p>Black Mask is pretty rare. Brooks Hefner at James Madison University oversaw the acquisition&#x2F;accession (I think) of their Black Mask collection, of which they have quite a bit in comparison to other places, but it&#x27;s still incomplete. The Ransom Center in Austin specializes in rare and collectible items, but only has one or two issues. The Library of Congress may well have a complete collection, but what they do have isn&#x27;t digitized because the pages are brittle and are literally falling apart (even moreso than other&#x2F;older printed material).
            • blacksqr1 hour ago
              Godspeed to all working on this.
    • GeoAtreides6 hours ago
      No notable wroters, except one: Pär Lagerkvist
  • clarkmoody9 hours ago
    Previous civilizations were able to own their cultural myths. Modern civilization&#x27;s cultural myths are controlled by giant faceless corporations with legions of lawyers. No one can tell a new story about Han, Luke, and Leia without permission from the House of Mouse.
    • asimpletune3 hours ago
      I agree that the way things were along time ago was more natural and definitely more creative. Things today though are way different though. A huge difference is that media wasn’t an industry back then. Most people couldn’t even read. The retelling of myths would mostly happen in the form of poetry or drama performed publicly, and the performance schedule was tightly controlled in the form of contests and festivals to honor various things across the calendar. There’s not really analogue to that now. We are truly in uncharted territory, and that was the case since the printing press. Throw in the invention of the internet and it’s a giant mess. I’m optimistic though that we can resolve it and pave a way forward.
    • immibis34 minutes ago
      Or a Tor onion service.
  • cxr16 hours ago
    Unfortunately, public domain isn&#x27;t everything. There are lots of works that we know of and that we should be able to share with one another, but it&#x27;s hard to come by copies. To give one example:<p>The novel Red Harvest from 1929 is listed as entering the public domain next month. But the thing is that prior to being published as a novel, it was serialized in Black Mask magazine, and since all installments were published pre-1929, they&#x27;re all already in the public domain.<p>The trouble, though, is that despite being public domain, actually getting your hands on these issues, whether in real life or figuratively as scans is something that poses a challenge—we simply don&#x27;t have easy access to this material.<p>And that goes for lots of other stuff that we know about but don&#x27;t have copies at hand.
    • d3VwsX4 hours ago
      Also all the sites that post scans of old books or magazines but claim various usage restrictions or&#x2F;and copyrights on the scans.<p>That effectively keeps public domain works copyrighted, for most purposes, for most of us. Most libraries for instance have some EULA that says you can only use scans you order from them for non-commercial purposes, even if they scan from a public domain book. I do not know if that can be enforced in general, but it would not be fun to have to find out in court.
    • aspenmayer16 hours ago
      If it’s in the public domain, you can make legal derivative works even without the source material, can’t you?<p>Or can you?
      • nemomarx15 hours ago
        If the serialized one is in the public domain and a book isn&#x27;t, then your work might be seen as derivative of the book anyway.<p>For instance the recent Wicked movie (and book, and play, etc) can&#x27;t use ruby red slippers, because that was a detail only in the relativley more recent movie, so even though the original wizard of oz book has been in the public domain a while, some details are siloed off. I think the Holmes stories had disputes like this for a while too, where if you mentioned certain side characters it might infringe a more recent adaptation or etc.
        • recursivecaveat15 hours ago
          The Holmes situation was even sillier than that: they were arguing that certain <i>personality traits</i> of Sherlock were still under copyright: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.denofgeek.com&#x2F;movies&#x2F;conan-doyle-estate-sues-netflix-enola-holmes&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.denofgeek.com&#x2F;movies&#x2F;conan-doyle-estate-sues-net...</a>
        • aspenmayer15 hours ago
          I can see how having the public domain source material might be necessary to defend yourself against claims of infringement of the non-public domain works. That makes sense to me.
  • timpark17 hours ago
    In May 1998, before the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act went into effect, there was an amusing Tom the Dancing Bug comic regarding characters falling out of copyright. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gocomics.com&#x2F;tomthedancingbug&#x2F;1998&#x2F;05&#x2F;17" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gocomics.com&#x2F;tomthedancingbug&#x2F;1998&#x2F;05&#x2F;17</a><p>In that vein, similar to the Mickey Mouse and Winnie the Pooh horror movies that have been released in recent years, Popeye will be entering the public domain next year and people are working on a horror movie based on that.
    • saghm17 hours ago
      Even as someone who isn&#x27;t really into horror much as a genre, it&#x27;s hard not to appreciate how one of the first instincts we have as a society when freeing some IP is &quot;We should make a creepy version of this!&quot;.
      • Swizec17 hours ago
        &gt; it&#x27;s hard not to appreciate how one of the first instincts we have as a society when freeing some IP is &quot;We should make a creepy version of this!&quot;<p>Almost certainly rule 34 happens first and just gets less attention in public. There were “bear” posters of Pooh all over SOMA (in SF) almost immediately after the copyright ended.
        • ben_w16 hours ago
          Rule 34 happens well before copyright expires.<p>Clopfic, Kirk&#x2F;Spock, or ask any pile of furries about Robin Hood or Nick Wilde.
        • registeredcorn16 hours ago
          What is Soma? I see there is a video game (link)[<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Soma_(video_game)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Soma_(video_game)</a>], but have no idea what it means in this context. Are you saying there is some kind of add-on for that?
          • hollerith16 hours ago
            South of Market neighborhood of San Francisco.
            • registeredcorn15 hours ago
              Ah, my bad. I think I saw that in one of the results but went off on some other route because I was focused on &quot;horror&quot; stuff. Thanks. :)
    • fred_is_fred15 hours ago
      I am curious how the long tail and changing of media consumption habits has devalued many of these characters. Mickey is Mickey and there&#x27;s an entire company built on it of course, but my kids have literally no clue who Popeye is. They have never seen a Popeye cartoon and probably never will. When I was younger we didn&#x27;t have nearly as much choice (2-3 channels with limited times for cartoons) - rather than Netflix or Youtube which effectively offers unlimited&#x2F;fragmented options.<p>Additionally the main plot line of Popeye is effectively Popeye protecting Olive Oil from being assaulted by Bluto - not exactly modern cartoon material.
      • timpark11 hours ago
        I think some things were a product of their time, and weren&#x27;t popular&#x2F;profitable enough to keep marketing or update or modernize. (whether they didn&#x27;t maintain peoples&#x27; attention, or had issues like the Popeye one you mentioned) Another not-as-popular character that&#x27;s entering the public domain in 2026, for example, is Betty Boop.<p>On the other hand, Superman and Batman enter the public domain in 2034 and 2035 respectively, so that should be interesting. Though like Mickey Mouse&#x2F;Steamboat Willie, I expect that it&#x27;s only the original version&#x2F;costume that goes public domain.
  • tzs13 hours ago
    As is usual there is quite a bit of discussion here on copyright reform, which is mostly just suggestions to change the term of copyright.<p>I think it would be interesting to consider other reforms.<p>Note that copyright is not just a single right. It is a bundle of rights. In the US those are the copying right, the derivative work right, the distribution right, the performance right, the display right, and some others. The bundle of rights might be different in other jurisdictions but in most it is similar. In the rest of this comment I&#x27;ll only be consideringd US copyright.<p>First, I don&#x27;t see why all of those rights should all have the same term. I see no reason to believe that the optimal term for say the copying right and the optimal term for the derivative work right would be the same.<p>Second, how about adding more compulsory licenses? US copyright law already has some compulsory licenses (also called mechanical licenses), such as for cover songs. Briefly, a federal agency called the Copyright Royalty Board sets the terms and rates for these licenses, and anyone can obtain the license according to those rates and terms, regardless of whether or not the copyright owner wants to license the work to them.<p>For example suppose we made it so that the copying and distribution rights have a three phase lifetime instead of the current two phases (which are an exclusive phase tied to the author&#x27;s lifetime followed by public domain). The three phase lifetime could be (1) an exclusive phase of a fixed number of years, followed by (2) a compulsory license phase, followed by (3) public domain.<p>The derivative work right is the hard one. On the one hand a short term allows others to play in an author&#x27;s universe. I&#x27;ve seen some really good and really well written fan fiction that is not currently technically legal, especially crossover fan fiction that merges the story universes of different authors. Encouraging this would be good.<p>On the other hand some things would be ruined if they became public domain too quickly. I&#x27;m quite pleased that Bill Watterson still gets to decide who can make &quot;Calvin &amp; Hobbes&quot; derivative works. If copyright was only 14 or 21 years (terms people often suggest), I&#x27;ve no doubt that every character from &quot;Calvin &amp; Hobbes&quot; would have started appearing in ads as soon as the copyright expired.
  • nottorp7 hours ago
    Most are still books in that list. But there is no readable version of it, just photos :)<p>Next year it will be a link to a tiktok movie?
  • swyx17 hours ago
    handpicked selection of notables:<p>- Frida Kahlo<p>- Henri Matisse<p>- Alan Turing<p>i guess the Chrysler Building is public domain now? what can you do with a buidling?
    • jabroni_salad28 minutes ago
      There was some crank that once C&amp;D&#x27;d a minecraft server for reproducing copyrighted buildings. I dont think he had the guts to take it to court though.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=9y2IiZvg1xQ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=9y2IiZvg1xQ</a>
    • Rebelgecko16 hours ago
      Kind of a niche, but the open world Spiderman video games stopped including the Chrysler Building due to licensing issues after it was bought by new owners in ~2019
    • diggan16 hours ago
      &gt; i guess the Chrysler Building is public domain now? what can you do with a buidling?<p>I guess maybe the design of the building, if anything? If that will become public domain, expect it to appear in Macau in a year or less, and probably other places :)
    • shiroiushi11 hours ago
      You wouldn&#x27;t download a building.
      • poulpy1231 hour ago
        I would if I could ! but my 3D printer is a bit to small
    • GeoAtreides6 hours ago
      Also the writer Pär Lagerkvist, nobel award winner
  • distantsounds16 hours ago
    I&#x27;d love to know! Too bad this website only gives a small selection of what those items are, despite the entire lists already being published elsewhere! Very useful, thanks Hacker News!
  • aaronbrethorst17 hours ago
    I, for one, am looking forward to <i>A Farewell to Arms and Zombies</i>, inevitably coming out soon.
    • gweinberg16 hours ago
      I guess putting a book on a trash can to trap your possessed severed hand is considered fair use.
  • m3kw914 hours ago
    How do people typically make money from these new things
  • hoseja2 hours ago
    Oh hey look Crowley.<p>It&#x27;s fascinating to me that like 95% of what anglos see as &quot;occult&quot; or &quot;magic&quot; is directly descended from that very recent grifter.<p>Also see vampires and Stoker (though that&#x27;s not as intentional).
  • aucisson_masque16 hours ago
    70 years feels so long for movie or book.<p>I get it’s important to protect the right of authors and companies but damn it’s 3 generations. Something my grand grand father may have seen, that’s insane.<p>25 year, a single generation would make sense. I’d argue that by then all the money would have been made and you would allow new generation to grow up with the greatest art from previous generation, it would be like a virtuous circle. Next generation would improve based on previous one And so on.
    • ronsor15 hours ago
      I&#x27;m going to designate this as the obligatory &quot;copyright is far too long&quot; subthread.<p>In my opinion, the ideal length (if we are to have copyright) is between 10 and 15 years, at least if a work is already monetarily successful. If a work has yet to be monetarily successful, then we can allow up to 25 years for it in particular.
      • pclmulqdq13 hours ago
        European patents have an interesting fee structure that increases exponentially (IIRC doubling every ~3 years), with a 20 year limit. I think this (plus mandatory registration if you want to enforce) is a great solution to copyrights, too, even if you let it run unbounded. If the registration fee is $1000, a registration 30 years later is $1000000 and if you want 60 years you have to pay $1000000000 over the life of the copyright.<p>Any excess revenue could, theoretically, be redistribute as grants for the arts.
        • silvestrov2 hours ago
          European Patent Office fee list: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;my.epoline.org&#x2F;epoline-portal&#x2F;classic&#x2F;epoline.Scheduleoffees" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;my.epoline.org&#x2F;epoline-portal&#x2F;classic&#x2F;epoline.Schedu...</a><p>has 4 pages of prices
          • pclmulqdq27 minutes ago
            Looks like I was wrong about which patent office I&#x27;m thinking of, thanks for posting.<p>Seems like it&#x27;s the US that has doubling fees, doubling every 4 years.
        • devsda13 hours ago
          I think it should be proportionate (&amp; increasing exponentially) to the revenue(not profit because hollywood accounting).<p>Big coporations like Disney can hold on to the material and pay the sum with profits from other ip if it&#x27;s fixed.
          • Wowfunhappy2 hours ago
            &gt; Big coporations like Disney can hold on to the material and pay the sum with profits from other ip if it&#x27;s fixed.<p>I think that&#x27;s okay, Disney has lots of money but they aren&#x27;t stupid, i.e. they won&#x27;t spend money unless they expect a return on investment.<p>What you really want to prevent are orphan works which are copyrighted but no one can get a copy of.
          • toast08 hours ago
            Assuming fee based renewal, proportionate to revenue is problematic for works that fall out of publishing.<p>There&#x27;s lots of works from when I was young that nobody is interested in publishing, even though I would like to see them again. They make zero revenue now (and probably didn&#x27;t make much before), so I suspect the rights holders would abandon them if they had to pay any fee, especially an escalating fee.<p>I&#x27;m personally less worried about works that remain in print.
            • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF1 hour ago
              &gt; I suspect the rights holders would abandon them if they had to pay any fee<p>Wouldn’t that just put the works in the public domain, allowing others to legally publish the works? What would be the downside?
              • toast019 minutes ago
                Yes, that&#x27;s the upside. That&#x27;s why people want a meaningful fee.<p>If it&#x27;s revenue based and there&#x27;s no revenue, then the rightsholder will renew to protect their options.
            • zarzavat5 hours ago
              Couldn&#x27;t you print it yourself? If it&#x27;s that obscure and that important to you to own a hard copy.
              • bluGill1 hour ago
                Print them how? Am I supposed to type up all the pages of that falling apart book - book scanning helps but still requires extensive effort? What about the page that got ripped out and is missing, how do I recreate that?<p>While it is likely legal for me to go through all that effort for myself, it isn&#x27;t legal for me to share the fruits of my effort with someone else who wants a copy so they need to do it themself. Even if they have a worn out copy themself it isn&#x27;t clear that I can print them a new copy. If I want to share this work with someone else who might want it I&#x27;m stuck - I can only do the above for personal use.
          • pclmulqdq12 hours ago
            Why complicate things and allow for even more creative accounting? Elevating flat fees give you a term that is inversely proportional to revenue. With flat exponential fees, term is logarithmic in revenue.
          • shiroiushi12 hours ago
            I completely disagree. The previous comment&#x27;s idea is better: just charge fees. The government shouldn&#x27;t be worried about exactly how profitable something is, because you can argue that too many ways (see Hollywood accounting). It&#x27;s too easy for large corporations to invent &quot;creative accounting&quot; tricks, and just basing things on revenue penalizes any company that invests larger amounts of money in ventures that have lower profit margins (e.g. doing high-quality movie production with physical models, on-location shooting, etc. instead of just using some crappy AI to generate everything).<p>With exponentially increasing fees, the copyright holder can decide for themselves if it&#x27;s economically worthwhile to pay the renewal fees or release it into the public domain. If the cost to extend copyright another 5 years after 50+ years is $1B, for instance, very few copyright holders will bother with that unless it&#x27;s a highly profitable property.
            • wtallis12 hours ago
              The problem with &quot;just charge fees&quot; is that it wastes an excellent opportunity to make the copyright system more useful for individual authors and artists, and instead strengthens the status quo with even more incentives to consolidate copyright powers under mega-corporations. Long before the fees got high enough to incentivize a corporation to abandon a work&#x27;s copyright to the public domain, they would force authors to sell out to a corporation in return for a share of future earnings, rather than accept an immediate loss of all royalties.
              • pclmulqdq12 hours ago
                Presumably you could set up &quot;just charge fees&quot; to have a grace period of 3-5 years to register your copyright (and pay any back fees) if you happen to want to enforce the copyright after that time.<p>It&#x27;s also possible that you could set up a smaller fee for a news article, etc.<p>There are lots of implementation details that make &quot;just charge fees&quot; work.
              • deprecative4 hours ago
                Return ownership of IP to humans only. You&#x27;ll solve basically all of the issues currently faced that way.
                • michaelt1 hour ago
                  How would that apply in the case of, say, Peter Jackson&#x27;s 2003, $281 million &quot;The Lord of the Rings&quot; film series?<p>Does Jackson own the IP? Do actors own part of the IP for every scene they&#x27;re in? What does Jackson offer to investors, to get the backing he needs to hire loads of horse riders or whatever? Do we do it Star Citizen style, giving Jackson a few hundred million upfront with no obligation to deliver anything?
                  • tanewishly42 minutes ago
                    You make an excellent point. Companies could eg. have 25yrs to make a profit.<p>On the other hand: if an artist produces something that slumbers in anonymity for decades before it suddenly explodes into popularity and becomes part of the cultural canon, then I&#x27;d want the artist to reap whatever benefits possible. That is: if anyone is making big bucks off of that, it first and foremost should be the artist, for as long as they&#x27;re alive.
            • andrepd3 hours ago
              &gt; The government shouldn&#x27;t be worried about exactly how profitable something is, because you can argue that too many ways (see Hollywood accounting). It&#x27;s too easy for large corporations to invent &quot;creative accounting&quot; tricks<p>This is also the <i>core</i> reason why tax systems should be simplified simplified simplified.
      • benj1116 minutes ago
        Surely the point of copyright is to allow a person to have sole rights to commercialise a thing before it goes to the public domain.<p>If so, if they havent done that in the first 10&#x2F;15 years, why should they get an extra 10&#x2F;15 years?<p>Further, another issue of very long copyrights is preserving things you don&#x27;t really have a right to preserve.<p>that successful videogame may still be around in 25 years. the one that wasn&#x27;t so popular has much less chance of surviving.<p>And then you have the added complication of what was successful? a fixed term means you know when something is in the public domain.<p>personally, I think there should be registration and fees attached. if you want copyright protection for the first 5 years, pay a nominal fee. if you want more than that, pay exponentially more for each year.<p>If companies want to pay that tax, they can. if it isn&#x27;t worth it, then it can go in the public domain.<p>Either way, at least you have a register of what is in, and out of copyright.
      • modeless15 hours ago
        Has anyone done a study on when copyrighted works make their money? I&#x27;m guessing that the vast majority of the income is made in the first decade after creation. Timeless classics are by far the exception. And for those, does it really benefit society for their fortunate authors to sit back and get rich resting on their laurels? The creation that copyright was supposed to incentivize already happened. At that point society benefits when works go into the public domain so derivatives can flourish.
        • ronsor15 hours ago
          &gt; does it really benefit society for their fortunate authors to sit back and get rich resting on their laurels?<p>In my opinion, it doesn&#x27;t. In creative and entertainment industries, the idea of practically indefinite royalties has been normalized, but no other industries has this*. For example, it would be strange to continue paying a construction company after your home has been built.<p>*As far as I can remember. I&#x27;m open to correction here.
          • johnmaguire13 hours ago
            I don&#x27;t understand the analogy. We don&#x27;t continue to pay authors after we buy their book. We do pay construction companies again if we want a second house - even if the design is the same.<p>Probably floorplans would be a closer comparison - and I believe they are licensed IP?
            • shiroiushi11 hours ago
              &gt;We do pay construction companies again if we want a second house - even if the design is the same.<p>You might pay the construction company again for the identical 2nd house, but you&#x27;re not going to pay the <i>architect</i> again.
              • eesmith4 hours ago
                Why not? The US, for example, recognizes a copyright in architecture. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Copyright_in_architecture_in_the_United_States" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Copyright_in_architecture_in_t...</a>
              • Juliate6 hours ago
                Dépends. If the 2nd house location requires review by an architect because of ground issues or regulation. If contractual provisions require an architect fee. If small adjustments that may have structural impacts are needed. You won’t pay the same amount, but still something.
            • tmtvl5 hours ago
              I believe the analogy is as follows:<p>Imagine that you&#x27;ve paid the construction company after it finished building your house. You then go and live in it. One year later you get an invoice because you&#x27;re living in the house they built.<p>That&#x27;s what doesn&#x27;t happen and what (I think) GP means with indefinite royalties: the person who owns the house has to keep paying the company which built the house.<p>The problem with that analogy is of course that royalties are based off profits, but there are ways to consider a home to have its own sense of profit (like the Belgian legal term &#x27;cadastral income&#x27;:<p>&gt; <i>Cadastral income is not an actual income. It is a notional value that we determine for an immovable property (building or land). This corresponds to the average annual net rental income you would receive in 1975 for your leased out property.</i><p>).
            • Mindwipe4 hours ago
              &gt; We don&#x27;t continue to pay authors after we buy their book.<p>Libraries certainly do in basically every country in the world apart from the US.
          • lionkor15 hours ago
            any subscription service that doesn&#x27;t deliver new value each day or month, like the Adobe suite(s)
            • ronsor15 hours ago
              In the case of Adobe, you&#x27;re paying for continuous updates and their added cloud services (or other functionality which requires their servers). Also Adobe&#x27;s subscription pricing (per-month) is significantly less than the retail cost for a one-time purchase of their software without future updates.<p>Meanwhile one does not pay for continuous updates to a particular novel or a movie. Even if they do pay for new installments in a series, they do so separately.
              • bluGill54 minutes ago
                Adobe presumably also fixes bugs, so hopefully you are getting something better over time. I&#x27;ve in the past wore out a favorite book and since it was in print bought a new copy - and found the same typos that were in the previous copy.
              • drdeca14 hours ago
                &gt; Also Adobe&#x27;s subscription pricing (per-month) is significantly less than the retail cost for a one-time purchase of their software without future updates.<p>And the per-second pricing is even less!
        • pclmulqdq11 hours ago
          My guess is that authors have relatively long-term returns on their books, while movies are known to generally make almost all their money in the first year.
          • Mindwipe4 hours ago
            &gt; while movies are known to generally make almost all their money in the first year.<p>That hasn&#x27;t been true for fifteen years.
          • Juliate6 hours ago
            Generally yes, significant revenue (for books but also movies and music) may happen several years after the first release&#x2F;publication. Because… reasons you don’t always control.
        • fwip14 hours ago
          Some people would say that the fortunate authors have already benefitted society, and that the potential of winning this lottery ticket was part of their incentive to do so. We could equally ask &quot;does it benefit society to enrich tech founders with billion-dollar acquisitions?&quot;<p>That said, I believe the security of UBI to be a stronger enabler for creativity than gambling you&#x27;ll write the next great American novel in-between shifts at the fish cannery.
      • anilgulecha12 hours ago
        The original copyright law (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Statute_of_Anne" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Statute_of_Anne</a>) got it right IMO: 14 years.
      • theshrike793 hours ago
        I&#x27;d go with something like the Sony Spiderman deal.<p>Unless they release new IP with that character every X years, the rights revert back go Marvel (Now Disney).<p>Same with books. If you have an ongoing series for 20 years, the first books shouldn&#x27;t enter public domain.<p>But a book series or TV show with no new content for 15+ years? Public domain.
        • HideousKojima29 minutes ago
          That gets really murky really fast.<p>Is <i>10 Cloverfield Lane</i> a sequel to <i>Cloverfield</i>? They decided to throw the Cloverfield name onto it shortly before release for marketing reasons, the actual movie has nothing to do with the events and story of the original <i>Cloverfield</i>.<p>Is the video game <i>Nier</i> a sequel to <i>Drakengard</i>? Technically yes, but the connection is vague and distant. And there&#x27;s also <i>Drakengard 2</i> which is the sequel to a different ending for the original game.<p>How would you count <i>Fear the Walking Dead</i>, the spin-off series of <i>The Walking Dead</i>, itself and adaptation of a comic book series. Do the shows continue to get copyright protection so long as the comics are still being published? Or vice versa?
      • plopz15 hours ago
        The only part that feels weird about a shorter duration like that is tv&#x2F;movie adaptations of books. The game of thrones show came out 15 years after the first book, does that mean they would have been able to make it without licensing it from the author?
        • ronsor15 hours ago
          It does mean that, and I think that&#x27;s just something that would have to be accepted. Disney&#x27;s empire is built on adaptations of public domain stories, after all.
          • echelon15 hours ago
            Disney is about to be faced with a landscape where anybody can make Pixar films from home. They&#x27;re in for a world of hurt in the new regime where thought moves faster than IP.<p>Film studios only existed because (1) distribution used to be hard and (2) films were financially and logistically difficult to make. Netflix and YouTube slayed the first challenge, and now GenAI will fell the latter and give indie directors the same kind of platform that indie game and indie music folks currently have: true one person studios.
            • fwip14 hours ago
              Unlikely. Generative AI is foul and unpleasant to perceive.
              • zuminator14 hours ago
                That was also true of quite a lot of early CGI, but most people would say that things have improved. I think we&#x27;re on the cusp of rapid improvement in AI video as well, in part spurred on by skilled people using the tools we currently have.<p>I came across the following recently. I think a casual viewer would assume it was just Bakshi-style rotoscoped animation without a major AI component.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=X9BG6yBkOIE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=X9BG6yBkOIE</a>
                • HappMacDonald6 hours ago
                  My constructive criticism to this video is &quot;90% of it is figures standing still while wind blows their outfit or the camera does a simple move.&quot; Sometimes moving their lips as though talking .. though I did like that bird turning it&#x27;s head smoothly away like &quot;forget this, I&#x27;mma preen! Peace out!&quot; Haha<p>Very much no throughline of concepts from one shot to the next. You never see the same character twice. No foreground dynamic action.. not even simple walking except one far-away character directly away from the camera which means that their silhouette hardly changed.<p>This all comes from the current generation of video diffusion models that basically just generate an image like they always have except with a hint of temporal coherence they expand that into a short shot with no types of movement except those seen a million times in their training set.<p>Getting gen models to be able to reason better about motion and to build mental world models of the 3d scene they are managing a 2d window into is going to be a big challenge, and require some additional breakthroughs on a par with the original GPT and stable diffusion breakthroughs that currently act as a foundation to a majority of modern AI innovation.
                  • roenxi4 hours ago
                    &gt; ... and require some additional breakthroughs on a par with the original GPT and stable diffusion breakthroughs ...<p>You say this like Stable Diffusion isn&#x27;t a 2022 technology. And not early 2022, but quite late (August). ChatGPT is younger.<p>I mean sure we need more breakthroughs, but we&#x27;ve barely even seen a new hardware generation since those things came out and the researchers are really only getting started with the new capabilities of generative tech. If we don&#x27;t get more breakthroughs in short order then that would be a stunning halt of progress, a breaking stop the likes of which we have almost never before seen. More breakthroughs are a given.
                • ravenstine12 hours ago
                  Not sure why you&#x27;re downvoted. This is one of the most objectively true things said here. CGI was pretty crappy for at least the first few decades of its existence. Even aspects of the animation in <i>Toy Story</i> really show that film&#x27;s age. I remember realizing that in the early 2000&#x27;s. Most people either forgot or didn&#x27;t even experience the early days of CGI and would consider much of it to be nightmare fuel today.<p>AI is pretty clearly advancing orders of magnitude faster than CGI has. Just because it sucks now doesn&#x27;t mean it&#x27;s going to suck in another 5 years.
                  • lukan7 hours ago
                    &quot;Just because it sucks now doesn&#x27;t mean it&#x27;s going to suck in another 5 years.&quot;<p>We will see. Some flaws might be baked in, like LLM&#x27;s halucinating. That won&#x27;t go away, unless we invent a new tech. So here with generating videos, will morphing objects for example ever go away? I am sceptical with the current approach.
                • fwip13 hours ago
                  An interesting example. It may be because I consider myself a fan of animation (moreso than the average person), but the video has obvious garbage less than fifteen seconds in, with the spaceships (?) morphing and sludging around the pyramid.
                  • zuminator7 hours ago
                    Sure, that&#x27;s why I said casual viewer and not careful viewer. But getting back to your original point, would you say it was foul and unpleasant? That&#x27;s really what I&#x27;m claiming, that we&#x27;re fairly quickly advancing beyond the old days of those nightmare Nekobuses and vomit-inducing clips of Will Smith devouring spaghetti, and into territory where at least some people can find the product genuinely enjoyable. Of course nothing will ever be perfect. AI aside, after all these years it&#x27;s still often jarring when computer physics is shoehorned into cartoons&#x2F;anime that&#x27;s designed to look like traditional hand drawn animation.
                    • vel0city2 hours ago
                      &gt; would you say it was foul and unpleasant?<p>If I were to watch 90+ minutes of that with dubbed voices on top of it, absolutely. There&#x27;s practically zero cohesion between any of those shots. No real action, no real narrative. It&#x27;s a collection of non-cohesive stills that were stretched, not any bit of a story at all.
              • ronsor14 hours ago
                It is not inherently, but people are very effective at using it to produce foul, unpleasant output, which is a temporary problem. Like almost all things, people will not actually care how they&#x27;re made if the final product is good.
              • mlindner13 hours ago
                Agreed. Everyone raves about generative AI but I&#x27;ve yet to see a single generative AI video that is &quot;enjoyable&quot; to watch in a way beyond the way tech demos are enjoyable to watch.
              • underlipton14 hours ago
                Disagree. I&#x27;ve seen things done with generative AI which I&#x27;ve wanted to see visualized for decades, but which were too difficult and time-consuming to do traditionally. I&#x27;ve also seen beautiful things that were either impossible to produce or impossible to even conceive of through traditional workflows.<p>Those make up an infinitesimally small portion of the total output, which is largely a deluge of crap, certainly. But, generally, rarity makes something more valuable and beautiful by comparison.
                • bbddg13 hours ago
                  Care to share your examples?
              • echelon14 hours ago
                As someone who spends 100 hours a week working in this space, it&#x27;s so weird seeing such pervasive negative attitudes everywhere I look.<p>I know the work I&#x27;m doing is valuable and that this field is the future. I&#x27;m sure it&#x27;ll click for more folks soon.
                • jorvi13 hours ago
                  To me the magic is in generating things that would have had too much right issues or would not have been economically viable.<p>A series that is a variant of the stories of “The Wire”, but taking place in the Harry Potter universe? Coming right up.<p>Obscure prog rock band from the 90s put out one album? Now its two.<p>I can understand people their apprehension, feeling like art is losing something essential without the human touch behind it, but I saw an article a few days ago where people thought generated Shakespeare was better than actual Shakespeare. Until it was revealed which was generated.<p>If AI can generate me another, better Illmatic, I’m all here for it.
                  • Freak_NL5 hours ago
                    The conclusion to draw there is that Shakespeare honestly doesn&#x27;t make for very good reading today unless you are also delving into the historical context or considering the major impact of his works on humanity&#x27;s culture from the arts to language. LLM generated output has none of that.<p>&#x27;Ah ha! LLMs are better than Shakespeare!&#x27; is a meaningless statement.<p>Besides, no one reads Shakespeare for pleasure; there is no need to generate more. ;)
                    • vundercind1 hour ago
                      I bet you could get a random person off the street to fairly-consistently pick (curated) AI works over an amalgamated top-5 of great jazz recordings selected by jazz super-fans.<p>&gt; Besides, no one reads Shakespeare for pleasure<p>Exactly (kind of). Lots of rewarding works take <i>effort</i> to learn to appreciate, for a bunch of reasons that may include (as in Shakespeare&#x27;s case) that they&#x27;re old and their context and vernacular is not ours. Lots of people (I&#x27;d say a large majority, in my experience) dismiss entire genres and forms of art that they weren&#x27;t heavily exposed to as children, often going so far as to judge them <i>bad</i>, simply because it would take some time and effort to learn how to enjoy them and to be able to discern what&#x27;s good or remarkable about a given work.<p>What proportion of the population has ever in their lives enjoyed the experience of reading a Shakespeare play? Even once? It&#x27;s gotta be tiny. Of course you can get them to choose AI junk over Shakespeare, it&#x27;s not a <i>kind of thing</i> they understood or enjoyed to begin with, in most cases.
                • happymellon7 hours ago
                  &gt; I know the work I&#x27;m doing is valuable and that this field is the future. I&#x27;m sure it&#x27;ll click for more folks soon.<p>Maybe because not everyone shares your opinion? Having an LLM generate art isn&#x27;t necessarily a net benefit for society. Computers were supposed to improve our lives but instead of robots to perform dangerous menial work it&#x27;s taking the creativity out of humanity.<p>Hey guys you no longer have to do fun things, tech bros have that covered. Now get back down the mine.
                • slyall12 hours ago
                  There seems to be some people who really hate Generative AI and will call it out and complain wherever they see it.<p>eg somebody uses it to illustrate an article there will always be somebody who complains.<p>So anything that enough people see will generate at least one complaint.
                  • sumtechguy1 hour ago
                    The thing is GenAI will be just like CGI. When it is bad it will look bad and has &#x27;that look&#x27;. But when it is good enough you will not even know.<p>The creativity has already gone sideways for most of this. I can with a few simple sentences create an acceptable picture (in some cases a short film). With a AI pipeline I can make some pretty cool scenes. Instead of having to know how to properly draw an s curve with a nice gradient bit of layered colors over it and 14 meticulously created layers. I tell the program to do it for me. It does an acceptable job in a fraction of the time. People can complain all they want but the rest of us are already using these tools and will continue to do so until something better comes along.
                • ronsor14 hours ago
                  People repeat &quot;generative AI is all evil garbage&quot; because that&#x27;s what the media (which is very afraid of AI, might I add) has told them.<p>It&#x27;s also funny to see AI turn people who normally dislike copyright into die-hard copyright lovers.
                  • vundercind1 hour ago
                    So far, it&#x27;s really bad at actually replacing human labor in pro-social ways while being a supercharger for various antisocial jobs, like scam artist or astroturfer. The main &quot;beneficial&quot; use for it today is replacing wasteful labor that probably didn&#x27;t need to be done in the first place—which is why an AI version is fine, because it didn&#x27;t matter to begin with.<p>My wife and I both work in the field, I on the tech side, her on the creative side, and she&#x27;s been in it since the earliest days of industry trying to adapt these tools. There&#x27;s a lot (like, holy shit, <i>so</i> much) of effort and money going into it, but so far it&#x27;s only marginally helpful for non-evil jobs.
                  • sakjur6 hours ago
                    People might care for culture. I’m very much in favor of a reformed copyright that strengthens indie artists, conservationists, and remixers and weakens Disney et al.<p>It’s also a matter of fact that we have the copyright we have that’s prohibitive to people and favors corporations. It’s upsetting to see how a bunch of Silicon Valley companies stomps right across those lines with impunity, while people like Aaron Swartz are persecuted and threatened with decade long prison sentences for crimes that in my mind ought to be much less upsetting.<p>If copyright was fair, training of AI intended for non-personal use ought to be a sufficient commercial activity to require a license. That would stiffle the development of AI, which is what I’d argue happens to human creators under our current system.<p>If we had a 25 year copyright, we could easily make useful AI trained on the sum of human creation until 1999, _and_ have badass human made remixes of 80s and 90s songs — we wouldn’t have to do legal gymnastics to allow the development of useful AI, as it’d have access to quite substantial training material from the 1900s, and unlock relatively modern training material year-by-year.<p>So yes, I dislike AI for infringing on copyright and I dislike copyright (in its current state).
                  • fwip13 hours ago
                    I didn&#x27;t say that? It is foul and unpleasant to behold, based on my experience of viewing it repeatedly over the last 5+ years.<p>It would be nice if you didn&#x27;t assume that anybody who doesn&#x27;t share your opinion is mindlessly regurgitating slop.
                    • ronsor12 hours ago
                      I was speaking in response to most of the general &quot;pervasive negative attitudes&quot; mentioned, not you specifically. Although I&#x27;m curious where you viewed generative AI content repeatedly 5 years ago; it was effectively non-existent outside research circles then.
                      • fwip11 hours ago
                        If I recall correctly, that was about the time that Google started demoing its generative AI &quot;deepmind&quot; - a particular demo of a frog comes to mind. The commonality of AI content has certainly increased since then, I didn&#x27;t mean to imply it was commonplace back then.
        • furyofantares15 hours ago
          Hm, also at 10 years out how likely is the author to be able to convince someone to do a TV adaptation, knowing that by the time they&#x27;re done someone else will be able to release their own versions (sans royalty even)?
          • seabass-labrax14 hours ago
            Apparently the TV series Game of Thrones cost just under $600m to produce[1], and George R. R. Martin earnt something like $100m from royalties as its original author[2]. Although access to the author for advice and publicity must be valuable, that is nonetheless a very large proportion of the profits that I&#x27;m sure many studios would rather not have to share!<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;movies.stackexchange.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;100996" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;movies.stackexchange.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;100996</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dailymail.co.uk&#x2F;tvshowbiz&#x2F;article-6182197" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dailymail.co.uk&#x2F;tvshowbiz&#x2F;article-6182197</a>
          • ronsor14 hours ago
            Many things are only popular for a relatively short period of time. If someone wants to wait until the copyright period is over to do an adaptation, the source material may no longer be that popular, and the adaptation, even without having paid a single royalty, will be unprofitable.
            • longdustytrail12 hours ago
              Ok but you’re gonna have a hard time convincing me that (morally) HBO should have been able to make game of thrones without cutting a check to the guy who created it
              • ronsor12 hours ago
                I&#x27;m not saying it&#x27;d be good for HBO to do that, only that they could. Regardless of whether or not they should, edge cases like GoT&#x27;s success should not control the outcome for everyone and everything else.
                • Mindwipe4 hours ago
                  GoT isn&#x27;t an edge case - it&#x27;s actually quite quick for an adaptation.
            • Mindwipe4 hours ago
              The reality is that almost no adaptations happen until ten years after a book is published. Virtually never.
        • thisislife214 hours ago
          That can be fixed by limiting copyright to a certain duration <i>per medium</i>. You write a book - you have copyright on paper based books for 15 years. You publish it as Ebooks for desktop and mobile devices - get 15 years on that medium. Convert to visuals on Television &amp;&#x2F;or Films - 15 years on that medium. Virtual reality - another 15 years and so on ...
          • johnmaguire14 hours ago
            Are you suggesting that if you release only a book, anyone could take the story and produce a film based on it, because you didn&#x27;t publish a film?
            • thisislife212 hours ago
              No. I am suggesting that <i>short</i> copyright terms should be tied to the medium of delivery.<p>If someone writes a book, copyright will begin when they publish the book and the 10-15 years copyright expiration would only be applicable for paper book medium. After the copyright for the paper book medium expires, anybody can republish it. But, only the original copyright owner can &quot;recreate&quot; the work again in another medium - like Games, TV&#x2F; Films, Virtual reality etc. Even if that happens after the expiration of copyright on the first medium it originally appeared on.<p>With the Game of Thrones example, with short copyrights, Martin would lose the copyright on the books (the first original medium it was published on) in 10-15 years. But he would retain the copyright on his work for other medium. So if 20 years down the lane, HBO wanted to recreate his work for TV, they would still have to get his permissions to do so. Once Martin&#x27;s gives HBO the rights to his work for TV, HBO would own it only for the 10-15 years, and after that, anybody could use it freely too, but only for paper book and TV medium. This means if Meta or Apple want to recreate Game of Thrones as a virtual reality show, they would again have to approach Martin to get his permission. If they do, then they own the copyright to his work, on virtual reality medium, till it expires in 10-15 years.<p>In this kind of system, the original author would continue to retain the future rights for any new future medium of delivery too.
              • tmtvl5 hours ago
                What would happen then if someone wants to make a movie about a book published a few centuries earlier? Would they have to do deep archaeology to find the heirs of the author, the heirs of the heirs, the heirs of the heirs of the heirs,... and then get permission of the hundred-odd heir^Nths?
        • echelon15 hours ago
          This is a remarkably salient point.<p>It can take a long time for certain works to find their wings or true market potential, especially books and music.<p>Some examples of music: &quot;Take On Me&quot;, &quot;Running Up That Hill&quot;, &quot;Bohemian Rhapsody&quot;, or even bands, like Neutral Milk Hotel
          • jhbadger14 hours ago
            You may have a point with a cult band like Neutral Milk Hotel, but songs like Take On Me and Running Up That Hill were incredibly popular when they were new -- it&#x27;s just that both got a second wave of popularity decades later when they were used on soundtracks of films&#x2F;shows.
            • echelon9 hours ago
              &gt; Running Up That Hill were incredibly popular when they were new<p>It was far more popular in the recent revival!
        • gosub10015 hours ago
          &gt; does that mean they would have been able to make it without licensing it from the author?<p>yes and it&#x27;s possible someone could have done it even better, had they not been required to convince investors to purchase copyright. GoT was a masterpiece, don&#x27;t get me wrong, but it&#x27;s a fallacy to think it couldn&#x27;t have been better, or that other book adaptations could have been as good or better, without copyright being in the way.<p>It&#x27;s a minor issue in the grand scheme, but my pet peeve is with &quot;synch licenses&quot; (not sure if that&#x27;s even the right term), but where sitcoms can&#x27;t go to home video because of stupid disputes about shitty songs that happened to be included. Did anyone watch &quot;Married With Children&quot; <i>because</i> of Frank Sinatra&#x27;s song &quot;Love and Marriage&quot; in the intro? It&#x27;s a catchy song, and I&#x27;m sure it lured people in who might have otherwise changed the channel, so yes it has value. But it should only be a tiny fraction of the royalties for a full performance of the song. doubly so for home video releases. Would <i>anyone</i> buy even 1 season of MWC <i>just</i> to hear the Sinatra song? I say no. And therefore should not be required to pay any royalties.<p>I am watching &quot;Murphy Brown&quot; reruns from pirateflix because apparently it never went to home video because of license disputes about the 60&#x27;s soul songs in the intro. They add character to the show, for sure. But they&#x27;re not why I watch the show. I watch it for the story and the acting. In this case, actors (who worked extremely hard over 10 seasons of that show!) are being wrongfully deprived of royalties because record execs can&#x27;t be reasonable about how much 10 seconds of a 60 -year-old song is worth.
          • plopz14 hours ago
            Yeah, thats a big problem with shows that work really well with the music, like Scrubs. I&#x27;m glad we have piracy to be able to keep the original works with the intended tracks intact.
      • vundercind2 hours ago
        It should definitely be short enough for creatives to engage directly with their influences from childhood and adolescence in middle age, and to take on and use the earlier works of their contemporaries in their later years.<p>So, probably not more than twenty years. Fifteen would be better.
      • benfortuna13 hours ago
        If this was the case would we have enough interesting content (movies, music, etc.) to reduce demand for streaming services, etc.?<p>I think those indirect impacts probably incentivize more lobby groups to keep the status quo.
      • Animats11 hours ago
        All the TRIPS agreement requires is 50 years. That can be from first publication, regardless of when the author dies.<p>The US should go with 50 years from first publication. It doesn&#x27;t have significant financial effect for rights holders. Revenue on content over 50 years old is tiny. Maybe if you&#x27;re still alive, the sole author, and own the rights yourself, you could apply for an extension for the rest of your life. But no more than that.<p>Someone with Trumpworld connections could push this, as a way of getting back at Hollywood.
        • Mindwipe4 hours ago
          &gt; All the TRIPS agreement requires is 50 years. That can be from first publication, regardless of when the author dies.<p>TRIPS requires fifty years for features, but not for various bits of copyright that go into making a feature, where it requires life + 50. There are vanishingly small amounts of films that would be genuinely clear under the TRIPS terms, they&#x27;d basically just be performing arts pieces with no script or planning or music.
      • liontwist13 hours ago
        What it sounds like you’re saying is “this stuff is too old to be interesting” which is kind of the point.
        • ronsor13 hours ago
          The point of copyright is to promote the creation of new works. It has nothing to do with the popularity of the work under copyright or after entering the public domain. Mickey Mouse was still relevant at the time of entering the public domain, ninety-five lobbied years later.
          • liontwist13 minutes ago
            Yep. But if it still commands economic value for its creator and you cut that off, then it is reducing that incentive to create and cultivate in the first place.
          • deprecative4 hours ago
            To add it&#x27;s only Steamboat Willie Mickey that is public domain. The actual character as we think of him isn&#x27;t. The creator has been dead for nearly 80 years. It&#x27;s absolutely insane that any of those creations are still privately owned.
      • aucisson_masque15 hours ago
        I mean if everyone agree but a few big companies, how is it possible that it has not yet been changed by politicians.<p>I’m not saying specifically USA but also Europe, I can’t see common people fighting over the right of author to hold intellectual properties for 70 years.<p>Haven’t been trials to shorten it somewhere, either USA or any other developed countries where it’s actually enforced ?
        • ronsor15 hours ago
          There are a few reasons why copyright terms aren&#x27;t shortened:<p>* International treaties make it difficult without buy-in from everyone, or at least the most important countries. The USA is probably the only country that could afford to unilaterally make such a change.<p>* Politicians are largely beholden to big companies now.<p>* The average person is distracted with other societal woes, and politicians and companies work hard to keep it that way.<p>* Some people have been convinced that excessive copyright is a moral good through propaganda.
          • genghisjahn13 hours ago
            I’m not sure where I stand on this, but is it possible that some people have been convinced that copyright is a moral evil by propaganda? I pause when I hear this line of argument, “I’m a free thinker and I have objective truth. Others are weak minded victims of propaganda.”
            • ronsor12 hours ago
              Of course. There&#x27;s all kinds of propaganda (and depending on where you stand, some propaganda is good and other propaganda is bad), and not one person is immune. But for the sake of this discussion, there are some extra factors to consider:<p>* Those promoting copyright expansion or the status quo have significant amounts of money; those criticizing it mostly do not (counting groups with real principles, anyway)<p>* It is suspicious for people who have no personal interest in extended copyright to excessively favor it.
        • lmm15 hours ago
          The benefits of a shorter term are diffuse. The benefits of a longer term are concentrated. This is a case where representative democracy often breaks down - policy A would be better for almost everyone, but not by enough for them to switch their vote on, whereas policy B is better by enough for a few people to make them single-issue voters. So we get policy B.
          • mrkstu14 hours ago
            Single issue &#x2F;donors&#x2F;
    • Aloisius15 hours ago
      The length should be no more than would be required to maximize the creation of works and not a moment longer.<p>Long terms prevent the creation of derivative works which at an extreme could be reducing the number of works created as well as disincentivizing creators from creating new works if they&#x27;ve been especially successful early in their careers and decided to coast.
      • thrance14 hours ago
        Then I&#x27;d say the ideal length is probably zero. I don&#x27;t buy that derivative works negatively impact revenue that much.
        • chipotle_coyote11 hours ago
          Derivative works aren&#x27;t really the primary problem copyright law was created to address. In the early days of novel publishing, it wasn&#x27;t uncommon for a popular book an author had sold to a publisher on a royalty basis to just be reprinted by other publishers who kept all the money for themselves. It wasn&#x27;t unheard of for the <i>majority</i> of an author&#x27;s books to be published by people who weren&#x27;t giving <i>any</i> money to them until the law stepped in.<p>I think people have a tendency to focus on corporations and super-successful individual creators as the primary beneficiaries of copyright, and I get it, but George R.R. Martin should not be your yardstick: the long tail applies here. A <i>lot</i> of authors have books that might keep bringing in a thousand dollars or less a year in royalties over a couple decades; if those authors are able to put out a book a year, that &quot;back catalogue&quot; might end up being most of their writing income. And the rise of ebooks has probably created <i>more</i> authors in that boat, not less.<p>The original US copyright act in 1790 set the term at 14 years, with a near-automatic extension of another 14 years granted upon request. I&#x27;d be happy enough going back to that, but I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;d want to see less, honestly.
    • stephen_g15 hours ago
      Absolutely.<p>There&#x27;s also absolutely zero sense that if there&#x27;s any term based on the lifetime of the authors, that it should extend a single day after their death.<p>I&#x27;d definitely prefer a 20-30 year fixed term, but if it was going to be based on lifetime then it should only be until the death of the author.
      • devsda13 hours ago
        The problem with that is some ridiculous edge cases.<p>Young book author agrees to a profit share agreement with publisher and works most of the time.<p>Has an accidental death at launch party, his work is in public domain now, and the publisher &amp; author&#x27;s family are in trouble ?<p>Or it simply makes publishers reluctant to work with old authors and be biased towards healthy young writers.
        • criddell2 hours ago
          I don&#x27;t have particularly strong feelings on this particular issue, but I do take issue with worrying about edge cases. By definition, edge cases are infrequent and unlikely occurrences. Trying to account for every possibility is a way of making sure nothing ever changes. It&#x27;s a form of perfect being the enemy of good.<p>For this particular scenario, I would tell publishers and authors to take out a life or accidental death insurance policy.
        • stephen_g9 hours ago
          Yes that&#x27;s why it shouldn&#x27;t have any bearing at all on lifetime, and why I prefer a fixed term of 20-30 years.
    • coldtea2 hours ago
      &gt;<i>I&#x27;d argue that by then all the money would have been made</i><p>Not by a long shot. They&#x27;re still milking famous books, movies, songs, from 50 years back and more.<p>But I&#x27;d argue that by 25 years all the money being made for the original owners should have been forced to stop. Similar as with patents.<p>Once concern is when a creator isn&#x27;t making money (e.g. from a book), and the work takes off after the 25 years (say, it becomes viral).
      • themaninthedark1 hour ago
        Just for argument, if we set the limit at 25 years. The Fellowship of the Ring, published 29 July 1954, would have been out of copyright by 1981. (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_Fellowship_of_the_Ring" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_Fellowship_of_the_Ring</a>)<p>I would say that the bulk of the (for lack of a better term) fandom, occurred after the 1980. Frodo Lives!(<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Frodo_Lives" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Frodo_Lives</a>!) notwithstanding.<p>I would also argue that corporations would have no qualms of waiting 25 years to capitalize and format shift a work of art, where as the 50 year term limit makes it more difficult for them to play off of nostalgia alone.
      • ElectricalTears2 hours ago
        We&#x27;d just end up with Seinfeld and Friends reruns on every channel.
    • poulpy1231 hour ago
      While I agree with you, I&#x27;m struggling to find a good argument why intellectual property should be treated differently from physical property
      • oneplane1 hour ago
        Reasoning about it from the perspective of something physical, one could argue that intellectual property doesn&#x27;t exist at all, and we should only consider the books, movie media etc. to be property.<p>If we were to take the contents of a book or a movie for example, and copy it, you still have the physical source, and nothing is lost, your property is still yours. It&#x27;s just that there is more of it due to the additional copy. That copy isn&#x27;t yours, and from the moment it was created it still isn&#x27;t yours. So in that line of thinking, the property that was created is not the same as the property it was copied from, which means two different properties exist.<p>We can make this even trickier, because if we were to reason about the physical property and the intellectual property separately, the story in a book, and the physical book itself would be two different properties. So when you create a copy, that book that started out blank was definitely not part of the property of someone else. So does the act of adding intellectual property now suddenly transfer the physical property to the source of the intellectual property?<p>In the current laws and practises around the world we have made all sorts of rules about this, but just reasoning about it before falling back on established practice already shows that it doesn&#x27;t always turn out to be as easy as it seems.
      • csdreamer71 hour ago
        &gt; While I agree with you, I&#x27;m struggling to find a good argument why intellectual property should be treated differently from physical property<p>1) First reason, it is not physical property.<p>2) Second, many of the creators who lobbied for longer copyright terms benefited from a rich public domain when they did not have anything. In the case of Walt Disney, he made a film series based on Alice in Wonderland, which never had copyright protection in the US, and it&#x27;s copyright expired in the UK in 1907.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Walt_Disney#Early_career:_1920%E2%80%931928" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Walt_Disney#Early_career:_1920...</a>
      • andrewclunn1 hour ago
        &quot;Hey, I like that table, I&#x27;m going to commission somebody to build one for myself!&quot;<p>Totally legal. No loss to first individual. The fact is that intellectual property IS treated differently, and was justified as being required to incentivize invention and creation NOT because there was any natural right to the product of one&#x27;s thoughts to not be copied or expanded upon. Now that it arguably gets in the way of innovation and creation, what justification is there for these ADDITIONAL legal restrictions.
        • fsckboy1 hour ago
          &gt;<i>NOT because there was any natural right to the product of one&#x27;s thoughts to not be copied or expanded upon</i><p>grandma not sharing her best recipes, and children calling each other &quot;copycat!&quot; is an argument for a natural right. It is innately how humans feel, and there is a supporting argument that we don&#x27;t want grandma&#x27;s secret innovations dying with her, to incent sharing.
    • globular-toast1 hour ago
      Where are you getting 70 years from? In the UK etc it&#x27;s lifetime <i>plus</i> 70 years. These will be works whose authors died before my retired father was born.<p>It says authored 1929 for the US which seems to indicate 95 years? I&#x27;ve lost track of how long these ridiculous lengths are now.
      • HWR_141 hour ago
        For works produced by a company&#x27;s employees and owned by the (immortal) company, its 95 years. For works produced by a mortal human it&#x27;s that author&#x27;s life + 70 years.<p>That&#x27;s how it is in the US and most of Europe.
    • adamc16 hours ago
      I think that&#x27;s too short. Lifetime of the author or a min. 50 years would make sense to me. Mark Twain, for example, was worried about providing for surviving daughters. I think that&#x27;s reasonable.<p>The crazy long Disney thing, though, is what it is because of lobbying muscle.
      • lolinder15 hours ago
        &gt; Mark Twain, for example, was worried about providing for surviving daughters. I think that&#x27;s reasonable.<p>I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s reasonable to expect to be able to continue to make money after you are dead. Earn enough during your lifetime to provide for your surviving daughters, sure, but I don&#x27;t like the idea of someone being able to posthumously put a gag on people&#x27;s ability to express themselves just so that their kids can get a nice inheritance.
        • seizethecheese15 hours ago
          Perhaps not, but the point of copyright is to provide incentive for creating work. Since earning beyond the grave is an incentive, there’s an argument to protect it (within limit).<p>Another example is Grant’s autobiography, which he wrote as he was dying of throat cancer. No way he would have done that without copyright.
          • lolinder15 hours ago
            &gt; No way he would have done that without copyright.<p>Why not?<p>For centuries people wrote books so that they would have a legacy and be remembered. They wrote because they felt it was the right thing to do, or because they wanted to control the narrative around their lives. Do you have any specific reason to believe that Grant wrote his autobiography to provide for his successors, rather than just <i>to have written it</i>?<p>I understand the theory about incentivizing people to create, but honestly I&#x27;m not convinced that what we get from that deal is worth it. Too often it feels like extended copyright creates a similar set of incentives to advertising—sure, we get more works, but the best works would have been written even with a much shorter copyright because the author had something they wanted to say. The works that are being incentivized by long copyrights are the ones that we could do without.
            • Quillbert18214 hours ago
              Grant wrote his autobiography pretty much entirely out of desperation to provide for his family after his death. He had lost everything he had in a Ponzi scheme and was heavily in debt as he was dying from cancer, and the autobiography was his last chance to make money for his family.
              • lolinder14 hours ago
                I stand corrected.<p>That said, at the time of Grant&#x27;s writing copyright in the US was 28 years (with an optional extension for another 14 if the author lived long enough), which means that OP&#x27;s proposal of 25 years would likely have been sufficient to motivate Grant.
                • seizethecheese13 hours ago
                  Yes. This is the correct synthesis. Copyright is good for one generation and bad beyond that.
          • Aloisius14 hours ago
            Both Clemens and Grant wrote when copyright was 28 years + optional 14 year extension.<p>I&#x27;d much prefer that to the current life + 70 years or 95 years after publication.
          • WillDaSilva15 hours ago
            &gt; No way he would have done that without copyright.<p>Was his creation of his autobiography primarily motivated by money? I would assume not.
            • Quillbert18214 hours ago
              It actually was, he was almost entirely destitute when he died and the autobiography was his last desperate at providing for his family.
              • WillDaSilva13 hours ago
                I stand corrected. Thanks for sharing that info.
      • Brybry15 hours ago
        The problem that I see is not the Mark Twains but the vast majority of other authors.<p>Their works go out of print but they&#x27;re still copyrighted so people can&#x27;t legally reproduce them (for profit or otherwise).<p>My grandfather was a published author with some success but he&#x27;s dead and his stuff is no longer in print. No one in my family is going to see revenue from his work. No one outside of his generation (when he was successful) will ever have a chance to read his books as they&#x27;re impossible to find now.<p>Most books written in the 20th century are basically gone from public availability.[1][2]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theatlantic.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2012&#x2F;03&#x2F;the-missing-20th-century-how-copyright-protection-makes-books-vanish&#x2F;255282&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theatlantic.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2012&#x2F;03&#x2F;the-m...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.law.berkeley.edu&#x2F;files&#x2F;How_Copyright_Keeps_Works_Disappeared_-_Paul_Heald.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.law.berkeley.edu&#x2F;files&#x2F;How_Copyright_Keeps_Works...</a>
        • xienze14 hours ago
          &gt; No one outside of his generation (when he was successful) will ever have a chance to read his books as they&#x27;re impossible to find now.<p>Does the family not have rights to those works? A copy of the books? Scan them and release them copyright free if you want the world to see them.
      • modeless15 hours ago
        Authors can provide for their children the same way the rest of us do. With the money they made while they were working.
        • lolinder15 hours ago
          I agree, with the caveat that a literary work can be seen as an asset that has value which pays out over time. It takes a large investment upfront and then pays out slowly.<p>So having a limited ability to pass on that asset if you die prematurely seems only fair—you&#x27;d have the same option if you were building something physical—but we shouldn&#x27;t use inheritance as an argument for longer copyright. The question of how long someone should be allowed to earn money from a work should be orthogonal from the question of whether that right to earn money should be inheritable.<p>This is the flaw in life plus 70—it assumes that copyright should last indefinitely during one&#x27;s lifetime <i>and then</i> provide for successors. I&#x27;d rather see a flat rate for how long we&#x27;re comfortable locking up a work in copyright, successors or otherwise.
          • modeless15 hours ago
            &gt; It takes a large investment upfront and then pays out slowly<p>Does it really? Sure, timeless classics pay out over a long period of time but they are by far the exception. I&#x27;ll wager that the vast majority of copyrighted works make the vast majority of their money in the first decade. So why do we need essentially perpetual copyright? (Essentially perpetual because almost none of the works created in my lifetime will ever pass out of copyright before I die)
            • lolinder15 hours ago
              &gt; the vast majority of their money in the first decade. So why do we need essentially perpetual copyright?<p>I agree. I think OP&#x27;s proposal of a fixed term of 25 years is more than reasonable. All I&#x27;m saying is that it should be inheritable and not based on when the author dies.
        • adamc13 hours ago
          I don&#x27;t see why written things can&#x27;t be an asset while other creations can. It just discriminates against writers.
          • modeless11 hours ago
            We have property rights for physical objects because physical objects are scarce. Only a limited number of people can use any given object and we need some way of deciding who gets to use it.<p>On the other hand copies of writing are not scarce. We can give copies to everyone who wants one for practically free. Property rights for copies of writing are therefore artificial. Creating artificial scarcity where none exists has real costs that in many cases outweigh the benefits.
        • seizethecheese15 hours ago
          All of us working in development of any kind create value well into the future with our work. The only question is whether you monetize immediately with wages or with ownership
      • rrrrrrrrrrrryan14 hours ago
        Drug parents are only 10 - 20 years, and it works great. The creator gets to make enough money to finance their next drug, and the public gets cheaper generics after a decade or two.<p>There&#x27;s no reason any other IP should be longer.
      • shiroiushi11 hours ago
        &gt;Mark Twain, for example, was worried about providing for surviving daughters. I think that&#x27;s reasonable.<p>Why is that reasonable? Why should someone&#x27;s daughters get a free ride instead of having to work for a living like everyone else?
        • poulpy1231 hour ago
          Are you in favor of forbidding inheritance to everyone or just for authors ?
      • ronsor15 hours ago
        I think that&#x27;s still too long when copyright was originally supposed to be a compromise between society and the author, not a indefinite guarantee for an author. I understand the concern of providing for family, but keep in mind that the average person works continuously to provide for their family and has to be responsible enough to save money. It is not society&#x27;s responsibility to ensure that; and alternatively if it is to be society&#x27;s responsibility, there are better mechanisms than copyright.
      • bigstrat200314 hours ago
        Agreed. I think lifetime of the author, or moderate fixed term in the case of untimely death or corporate copyright, is perfectly reasonable. 10-20 years is way too short, it does not give enough consideration to the author&#x27;s rights.
      • bdangubic15 hours ago
        his daughters were in their mid to late 20’s - wtf does he need to support them from his grave
        • lolinder15 hours ago
          To be fair to him, this was an era where their ability to support themselves was limited—if not in practice at least by strong cultural stigma.<p>The same cannot be said of most people today, and I therefore agree that it&#x27;s a bad argument for long copyright terms in a modern context.
    • theshrike793 hours ago
      The most important factor should be that if something isn&#x27;t commercially available (not used, new), it should fall to Public Domain faster.<p>If you&#x27;re not selling your game published in 2005, it should be free for everyone to grab - you clearly don&#x27;t care about it anymore. If you did, you&#x27;d let people pay money for it.
    • nemo44x12 hours ago
      I disagree entirely in that I believe government shouldn’t determine this but rather the market. The rights to an intellectual property should be transferable&#x2F;sold in perpetuity and at some point the work will become less and less valuable as newer works outcompete for attention. This will differ depending on how great the work was as judged by the market but it’s still the commanding force.<p>Any particular time for transfer from market control to public domain is arbitrary. If it’s worth anything it should be traceable not stolen. Everything will eventually have too little demand to be defensible and control will be let go and at that point it becomes public domain because it became public domain.
      • panja8 hours ago
        If you want the market to determine then why do you need IP at all? That&#x27;s just government intervention...
        • nemo44x41 minutes ago
          The government exists to protect the property of its citizens. You can’t have a reliable market without the threat of violence (prison, fines, etc) and judiciary from an authority and government is suitable for that purpose. It’s their main purpose in fact.
      • globular-toast1 hour ago
        So no copyright then? How would &quot;the market&quot; prevent publishers freeloading the works of authors? Suggest you look up why copyright was invented (and all the other thousands of ways simplistic markets don&#x27;t work the way we&#x27;d like them to).
        • nemo44x39 minutes ago
          I’m saying copyright in perpetuity enforced by the government with the threat of fines or prison for stealing a copyright holders property. From there the market can take over as it’s now free to operate without fears of piracy etc.
  • cle17 hours ago
    Here&#x27;s the full list, base64-encoded (since HN doesn&#x27;t support spoilers...)<p><pre><code> 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</code></pre>
    • remram16 hours ago
      Stick a data: prefix in front and it&#x27;ll decode in web browsers: data:text&#x2F;plain;base64,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
      • mdaniel16 hours ago
        In the spirit of nerd-sniping, it turns out that one needs to specify the encoding of those bytes, too, since it defaults to charset=us-ascii for some horrible reason <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.mozilla.org&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;docs&#x2F;Web&#x2F;URI&#x2F;Schemes&#x2F;data#syntax" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.mozilla.org&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;docs&#x2F;Web&#x2F;URI&#x2F;Schemes&#x2F;dat...</a><p>data:text&#x2F;plain;charset=utf-8;base64,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
      • HPsquared15 hours ago
        Wow, that&#x27;s amazing. I&#x27;ve recently been having some mild trouble with base64. Just put it in the address bar, of course!!
      • ahmedfromtunis14 hours ago
        This does NOT work in Android&#x2F;tablet version of Chrome (unless I&#x27;m doing something wrong). Gonna try it tomorrow on my computer.
        • sexy_seedbox4 hours ago
          Works fine in Kiwi Browser on Android.
        • __rito__9 hours ago
          Just worked in Android Firefox.
    • zamadatix17 hours ago
      For those on the lazy side: A pastebin link option<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pastebin.com&#x2F;raw&#x2F;9wfPfzT3" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pastebin.com&#x2F;raw&#x2F;9wfPfzT3</a>
      • saghm16 hours ago
        At the risk of the above comment being edited and making this stop working, here&#x27;s an alternative lazy version:<p><pre><code> curl https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=42291112 | grep &#x27;QSBSb[^&lt;]\+&#x27; -o | base64 --decode</code></pre>
        • zamadatix15 hours ago
          The lazy version is more targeted for the mobile users browsing by for the first ~24 hours not wanting to try to copy the data or find a way to run commands.<p>For the desktop-ers, future travellers, or just generally private&#x2F;skeptical mobile users among us I&#x27;d recommend this method <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=42291434">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=42291434</a> for the private long lasting lazy experience (no external tools necessary, but you do need to perform a manual copy into your URL bar).
    • arealaccount17 hours ago
      Surprised Gandhi is on that list, was he generally someone known to assert his intellectual property rights?
      • macintux16 hours ago
        Copyright, at least in the U.S., is automatic.<p>He would have to actively assert that he was releasing it into the public domain (and IIRC, although my last discussion on the topic was ~20 years ago, such a release had not yet been tested in court).
        • callingbull14 hours ago
          &gt; Copyright, at least in the U.S., is automatic.<p>It is now, but back then a work was public domain if released without a valid copyright notice.<p>Charade, a 1963 film, entered the public domain immediately on release.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Charade_(1963_film)#Public-domain_status" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Charade_(1963_film)#Public-dom...</a>
        • ndriscoll14 hours ago
          It wasn&#x27;t automatic in the past, which notably led to Night of the Living Dead accidentally becoming public domain on release.
      • crossroadsguy14 hours ago
        Having known of the man I would say copyright would have been, if at all, at somewhere in the bottom of bottom list of battles he was (and had to be) fighting.
    • qingcharles12 hours ago
      Some amazing works of literature in that list.
    • aaron69515 hours ago
      [dead]
    • doublerabbit17 hours ago
      And if you can&#x27;t read base64, a base16 encoded version below.<p><pre><code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code></pre>
      • clarkdale15 hours ago
        Maybe more helpful would be base 256 so it renders in ascii.
  • aaron69515 hours ago
    [dead]
  • MichaelZuo16 hours ago
    I think practically a lot more things are in the public domain because they were distributed via the internet to certain countries that until recently had a much lower bar than the Berne Convention standard and entered the public domain there.<p>Edit: or had at least one person make at least one copy there. If the law allowed everyone to make one copy for private use.<p>Or perhaps I’m misunderstanding ?<p>e.g. Ethiopia which only shifted to a quasi Berne standard midway through 2004.
    • hoppyhoppy215 hours ago
      Something going into the public domain in one country doesn&#x27;t mean that it automatically enters the public domain in every country. It may make it easier to find a free copy on the internet, but it is still often under copyright in other countries. The article is about works that are going into the public domain legally, not just practically.
      • MichaelZuo15 hours ago
        But they would be legally in the public domain for anyone in Ethiopia?<p>Ethiopian citizens, residents, etc., can clearly own a copy for each work.
    • gbear60515 hours ago
      It depends on your purpose. If you’re an American who wants to make movies for Americans, that are derivative of one of these works, this matters a lot.
      • MichaelZuo15 hours ago
        And if you’re a filmmaker who intends to establish their business in Ethiopia…?
        • Calavar15 hours ago
          Then you can establish your business in Ethiopia, but good luck selling it in the US!
          • MichaelZuo58 minutes ago
            That’s not an issue for the filmmaker who sticks to online distribution, there are branches of well known payment processors in Addis Ababa.<p>They won’t be making blockbuster movies anytime soon, but I imagine their business with would be greater than zero.
    • pbhjpbhj15 hours ago
      It would still be infringing to bring a copy into some countries from Ethiopia. UK doesn&#x27;t have fair use, for example.
      • MichaelZuo15 hours ago
        Yes, but on the internet someone in the UK can just get a connection to some server in Ethiopia hosting this vast treasure trove of works. So maybe not de jure, but probably de facto.<p>Edit: And maybe it is de jure too for those on a ship on the high seas?